Vikings - 49ers postgame

[Maelstrom88]

Well if we're going to pile in on Cousins, here's my piece.

Before the 2021 season, Cousins was 7-35 against winning teams. He'll add to both sides of those numbers the end of this season. What in the you know what made Rick Spielman think he was the answer to finally winning the Superbowl for this Franchise?

I think Rick believed Zimmer would maintain the elite defense he had and Cousins would get them more points than Keenum. I agreed with it at the time but the extension was the part that I wasn't down with.

[J. Kapp 11]

Well if we're going to pile in on Cousins, here's my piece.

Before the 2021 season, Cousins was 7-35 against winning teams. He'll add to both sides of those numbers the end of this season. What in the you know what made Rick Spielman think he was the answer to finally winning the Superbowl for this Franchise?

I think Rick believed Zimmer would maintain the elite defense he had and Cousins would get them more points than Keenum. I agreed with it at the time but the extension was the part that I wasn't down with.

With the extension, they operated under the same "window is still open" delusion they're operating under now.

The window began closing on January 21, 2018. That's when the Vikings were embarrassed in Philly in the NFCC Game. Vikings brass, namely Spielman and Zimmer, believed they were still elite. They weren't, and the cracks began to show next season in 2018.

The defense dropped from 1st overall to 9th. Not terrible, but indicative of a slide, especially in the defensive backfield.

The offense went from 10th overall (7th in rushing) to 19th overall AFTER acquiring Kirk Cousins and John DeFilippo. They also fell to 30th in rushing.

Yet management acted as though the defense was still 2017 elite, and as if the offense was suddenly amazing. When they made the playoffs in 2019, they patted themselves on the back and said, "See, the window is still open." No it wasn't. But they freaked and did the extension.

Now two years later, they STILL operate as though the window is open. Like they're somehow Super Bowl contenders. Zimmer says he still feels like this is a really good football team. No Mike, it's not. It's mediocre. It's the Leroy Hoard of football teams. You need 2 yards, he'll get you 3. You need 4 yards, he'll get you 3. That's the Vikings under this regime. Just good enough to be not bad.

[Maelstrom88]

I really do think Zimmer is the Marvin Lewis of the NFC and that might be an insult to Marvin Lewis.

[J. Kapp 11]

Well if we're going to pile in on Cousins, here's my piece.

Before the 2021 season, Cousins was 7-35 against winning teams. He'll add to both sides of those numbers the end of this season. What in the you know what made Rick Spielman think he was the answer to finally winning the Superbowl for this Franchise?

Fun! Let's pile.

I don't know if any of you noticed it, but Kirk D. was playing pretty darned well in the first half. He was hitting Thielen when they doubled Jefferson. He was making good decisions and good throws downfield. The Vikings were moving the ball.

Then came the first drive of the third quarter. Cousins threw the pick deep in his own territory, which led to easy points for the Niners. Not good. But you know what, Kirk? You haven't thrown a pick in forever. You've only thrown three all season. It's all good, man. Shake it off, and go back to playing the way you did in the first half.

But no. Kirk came unglued after the interception. He started checking down again. C.J. Ham became a focal point in the passing game. Thielen and Jefferson combined for only 8 targets, and 4 of those came on the last drive, when it was desperation time.

Kirk let the interception rattle him.

As I was listening to the Purple Daily podcast today, they brought up an amazing stat. Kirk Cousins, in his career, is 0-20 when he throws multiple interceptions in a game. Let that sink in for a moment. 0-20.

"OK," you say. "If you turn it over that much, you're bound to lose." I agree. You should have a losing record. But ZERO wins?

It begs the question ... how have others fared when throwing multiple interceptions in a game? Let's take a look (as reported on the podcast).

Matthew Stafford 11-25
Russell Wilson 5-10
Drew Brees 21-43
Big Ben 16-33
Matt Ryan 17-25
Tom Brady 19-27

See the difference? Others win about 1 out of every 3 games in which they've thrown multiple picks. Kirk Cousins has won ZERO. ZERO!

To me, that says the other guys can get back to playing their game when they fail. They can shake it off. They can put it out of mind. And Kirk Cousins can't. He just can't. And that only cements the idea that Kirk Cousins is great when everything goes his way.

That's what I saw yesterday, with only a single pick. Kirk Cousins melted down. Cousins didn't fail because it was crunch time. He failed because he got scared, and he got scared when he threw a pick. And you know what? It's not going to change. This is who he is.

[Maelstrom88]

While we are piling on Kirk the Vikings are set to pile on as well. To the tune of 45 million. Coming 2022.

[VikingLord]

I hope you all understand ... my OP was not really an account of who I thought was to blame for yesterday. I'm not blaming Cousins ... well, not ONLY Cousins.

My point about Cousins is this.

It's one thing to be clutch when your team is playing well. When everything is going mostly right. When your offense is clicking, like it was against Green Bay. Lots of good quarterbacks can come through in the clutch in those situations.

What takes you over the top to become GREAT is the ability to save your team when it doesn't have its best stuff.

Yeah, we can blame Mike Zimmer for the inability to stop the run. But you know what? We all KNEW going into that game that we were going to struggle stopping their ground game. We knew that if we were going to beat the 49ers, the Vikings would have to score. It was no surprise, at least not to me, that the 49ers put up 30+. The Vikings' defense was severely undermanned, especially in the area that could most likely stop their ground game — the defensive line.

As poorly as our defense played — and it was abysmal — the Vikings STILL had MULTIPLE chances to win that game. And each and every time they had a chance, they panicked. Kirk Cousins panicked.

Again, it's what you do when the sh!t is flying around you and your team's back is against the wall that measures your greatness as a quarterback.

Do any of you think there's a snowball's chance in hell that Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers lines up under the right guard on 4th-and-goal with the game on the line? Look at the TEAM in that situation. They didn't line up correctly. There was some confusion as to what the play was. Our second-string running back had to remind our $35 million quarterback that Oli Udoh doesn't snap the ball. Where is the calm in the storm? Where is the "Don't worry, I got this"? Instead, we get Maxwell Smart and the Chief: "Are you thinking what I'm thinking?" "I don't know. Were you thinking 'Holy sh!t, holy sh!t, a swordfish almost went through my head?' If so, then yes."

It was a mess. A Chinese fire drill instead of a 2-minute drill. Pretty much how it usually is in those situations with every Mike Zimmer coached team in the 8 years he's been our coach. In virtually every late-game situation, we panic. We line up incorrectly. We scramble. We look like we don't know what we're doing. Because we don't. That's coaching. That's the quarterback. That's the players (on both sides of the ball). It's everything. Again, we did fine when it was Detroit at home, or when everything was working like the Packers game. But when there's a chance to win in an otherwise crappy game, forget it.

Yesterday did two things for me.

1. It firmly established that Kirk Cousins is NOT on the top tier when it comes to NFL quarterbacks.
He's a gifted passer. He's well prepared. He commands a reasonable amount of respect from his teammates. But he's not great, and he's not great because he can't get past who he is ... somebody who follows a script. It's like the Lego Movie. Are you a guy who needs the instructions, or can you improvise? It's all got to go right for Cousins to shine. And he doesn't lift his team when the boat is sinking in the sh!tstorm.

2. It showed me how broken the organization is from top to bottom — it's dysfunctional beyond repair.
From the front office to the coach to the players, there is something very wrong with this team. The coach wants to play a certain way, but his way is outmoded. The GM wants to stockpile Day 3 draft picks instead of finding true difference makers. Probably because his coach loathes superstars. The quarterback desperately needs to be loved and coddled, which his coach (who never wanted him) isn't about to do. There's no cohesion, no alignment of purpose. Nothing. It's so broken, and it's not repairable.

Somebody asked on a call-in show today whether the Vikings could contend with Zimmer and Cousins if Zimmer were to hire a true innovator on offense, then get out of the way and let them shine. My answer is an unqualified NO. As I stated in some detail in another thread, Zimmer and Cousins cannot coexist in the same football universe. Whose fault is that? I don't care.

My personal preference would be to start over. All of them, from Spielman on down, fired. They've been doing this slight-of-hand with the fans for too long, where they make you believe they can contend with this pickup and that (Dalvin Tomlinson, Bashaud Breeland come to mind) and stay just close enough in games, even against the best teams, to give you hope. But it's Lucy and the football.

This iteration of the Minnesota Vikings organization is broken. It can't be fixed. Toss it in the trash, open the Amazon app and order a new one.

Cousins was SO off yesterday. His accuracy was as bad as I've ever seen from a pro QB. There were several throws that were significantly errant, to the degree where I honestly believed something was physically wrong with him. Normally he's accurate even if he's very conservative (which he also backslid to being yesterday), but when he threw it it was just consistently way off target. There were some downright wild throws there and it made me wonder why because that is very out of character for him.

To your larger point, the Vikings need a complete re-think on overall approach. Approach to the draft and players on both sides of the ball. Approach to the offensive, defensive and special teams philosophies as they relate to the players that are drafted. Approach to in-game situational football from being consistently prepared to play to consistently playing within assigned responsibilities to consistent execution. There was a play yesterday where one of the 49er RBs ended up with a huge hole on the right side of the Vikings DL, and sure enough, on that play whoever the end was for the Vikings on that side went and chased a ghost on the misdirection. I did think the Vikings could defend the 49ers on defense even yesterday with all the injuries provided the players played with gap and lane discipline and executed when they had a chance to make a tackle or defend a pass. But there it was yet again with players seemingly freelancing and leaving wide open running lanes and wide open areas downfield. It would be one thing if the opposing offense simply out-executed them because they had better players or just were way more crisp. But that is not what happened at all. Jimmy G was his usual spray-and-pray self, and I didn't feel like the 49er run game overwhelmed the Vikings until the defense started to get tired late. Nope, it looked like yet again the players seemingly randomly would just decide to do something to try to make a play or chase a ghost and the 49ers took easy advantage of that. Nothing wrong with trying to make a play on defense at all, but defensive players end up making splash plays mostly because they are well prepared for their opponent's tendencies and aren't just gambling. The 49ers are well known for misdirection and deception, and you know they're not going to beat you down the field passing. They're going to run it and run it and run it some more and then try to hit you with well-timed passing plays that are designed to minimize the obvious and known flaws of their starting QB. A good defense should know that to stop that kind of offense everyone has to stay home and know what the 49ers are likely to do in certain down-distance situations. What they're good at and what they're poor at. That didn't happen yesterday.

That, and the offense can't hand the opposing team the ball not once, but twice inside their own 20 yard line...

Yeah, the team is broken in the sense that it cannot play with any consistency. Fighters or not, gamers or not, whatever they are or are not, good teams, good players, good coaches, good GMs, do what they do with consistency. The Vikings lack that at every layer of their organization right now.

[Maelstrom88]

Watching on gamepass: On the failed 2 point conversion Jefferson beat his man on a flat route and Kirk holds it. He then beats his man again by turning up field and Kirk throws it in the dirt. Jefferson proceeds to throw his arms up in frustration as he should.

[RandyMoss84]

I am not surprised Vikings lost, I expected it anyway and Joseph needs to be cut, Vikings can not afford to be losing games thanks to a missed extra point

[Crax]

Cousins was SO off yesterday. His accuracy was as bad as I've ever seen from a pro QB.

Did you watch McNabb with the Vikings, he had some great bounce passes? Cam Newton was 5/21 for sub 100 yards with 2 ints for like a 6 rating yesterday. I'm not giving cousins credit for being bad, but there is still much worse floating out there. Newton was a top draft pick as well

[StumpHunter]

Cousins was SO off yesterday. His accuracy was as bad as I've ever seen from a pro QB.

Did you watch McNabb with the Vikings, he had some great bounce passes? Cam Newton was 5/21 for sub 100 yards with 2 ints for like a 6 rating yesterday. I'm not giving cousins credit for being bad, but there is still much worse floating out there. Newton was a top draft pick as well

Newton before his shoulder injury was a better player than Kirk could ever dream of being.

There are other QBs out there besides Cam though. Heineke is sitting at .500 on a lesser team. Bridgewater is above .500 in Denver. Both former Vikings QBs who aren't the answer long term but who are good enough to pull out some wins with the right team around them. Similar to Kirk in that way. It is not hard to find a starter who can win with everything going right around them. The difficulty is finding a QB who can win when faced with challenges.

[CharVike]

Cousins was SO off yesterday. His accuracy was as bad as I've ever seen from a pro QB.

Did you watch McNabb with the Vikings, he had some great bounce passes? Cam Newton was 5/21 for sub 100 yards with 2 ints for like a 6 rating yesterday. I'm not giving cousins credit for being bad, but there is still much worse floating out there. Newton was a top draft pick as well

That's the thing most are missing and I've been saying it for a long time. How does a guy play like Newton and still be in the NFL? He should have been cut immediately after that. A team can do better than Cousins and there are better options in our conference. Rodgers and Brady. Stafford was being talked up as a great fit. He's like our guy and right now they can't win. Same BS. When you have a QB that isn't HOF level you need a great team around them.

[CharVike]

Did you watch McNabb with the Vikings, he had some great bounce passes? Cam Newton was 5/21 for sub 100 yards with 2 ints for like a 6 rating yesterday. I'm not giving cousins credit for being bad, but there is still much worse floating out there. Newton was a top draft pick as well

Newton before his shoulder injury was a better player than Kirk could ever dream of being.

There are other QBs out there besides Cam though. Heineke is sitting at .500 on a lesser team. Bridgewater is above .500 in Denver. Both former Vikings QBs who aren't the answer long term but who are good enough to pull out some wins with the right team around them. Similar to Kirk in that way. It is not hard to find a starter who can win with everything going right around them. The difficulty is finding a QB who can win when faced with challenges.

Newton was never an accurate passer. Call it what it is. His arm is fine. He completed 59% of his passes when he was MVP. That sucks. Bridgewater blows. The minute that team faces a team that can play football his true colors will come out. They have a dam good team around him. They should win it all. You actually think Heineke is taking the WFT anywhere? Plus the WFT can play defense. That D is miles better than ours. They also play in a joke division. Put the Packers in there and nobody would be talking about any of those teams. They would be us. Don't forget Dak. They just lost to a joke at home. Of course there D sucks and eventually that will do them in.

[Maelstrom88]

Newton before his shoulder injury was a better player than Kirk could ever dream of being.

There are other QBs out there besides Cam though. Heineke is sitting at .500 on a lesser team. Bridgewater is above .500 in Denver. Both former Vikings QBs who aren't the answer long term but who are good enough to pull out some wins with the right team around them. Similar to Kirk in that way. It is not hard to find a starter who can win with everything going right around them. The difficulty is finding a QB who can win when faced with challenges.

Newton was never an accurate passer. Call it what it is. His arm is fine. He completed 59% of his passes when he was MVP. That sucks. Bridgewater blows. The minute that team faces a team that can play football his true colors will come out. They have a dam good team around him. They should win it all. You actually think Heineke is taking the WFT anywhere? Plus the WFT can play defense. That D is miles better than ours. They also play in a joke division. Put the Packers in there and nobody would be talking about any of those teams. They would be us. Don't forget Dak. They just lost to a joke at home. Of course there D sucks and eventually that will do them in.

[CharVike]

Well if we're going to pile in on Cousins, here's my piece.

Before the 2021 season, Cousins was 7-35 against winning teams. He'll add to both sides of those numbers the end of this season. What in the you know what made Rick Spielman think he was the answer to finally winning the Superbowl for this Franchise?

Fun! Let's pile.

I don't know if any of you noticed it, but Kirk D. was playing pretty darned well in the first half. He was hitting Thielen when they doubled Jefferson. He was making good decisions and good throws downfield. The Vikings were moving the ball.

Then came the first drive of the third quarter. Cousins threw the pick deep in his own territory, which led to easy points for the Niners. Not good. But you know what, Kirk? You haven't thrown a pick in forever. You've only thrown three all season. It's all good, man. Shake it off, and go back to playing the way you did in the first half.

But no. Kirk came unglued after the interception. He started checking down again. C.J. Ham became a focal point in the passing game. Thielen and Jefferson combined for only 8 targets, and 4 of those came on the last drive, when it was desperation time.

Kirk let the interception rattle him.

As I was listening to the Purple Daily podcast today, they brought up an amazing stat. Kirk Cousins, in his career, is 0-20 when he throws multiple interceptions in a game. Let that sink in for a moment. 0-20.

"OK," you say. "If you turn it over that much, you're bound to lose." I agree. You should have a losing record. But ZERO wins?

It begs the question ... how have others fared when throwing multiple interceptions in a game? Let's take a look (as reported on the podcast).

Matthew Stafford 11-25
Russell Wilson 5-10
Drew Brees 21-43
Big Ben 16-33
Matt Ryan 17-25
Tom Brady 19-27

See the difference? Others win about 1 out of every 3 games in which they've thrown multiple picks. Kirk Cousins has won ZERO. ZERO!

To me, that says the other guys can get back to playing their game when they fail. They can shake it off. They can put it out of mind. And Kirk Cousins can't. He just can't. And that only cements the idea that Kirk Cousins is great when everything goes his way.

That's what I saw yesterday, with only a single pick. Kirk Cousins melted down. Cousins didn't fail because it was crunch time. He failed because he got scared, and he got scared when he threw a pick. And you know what? It's not going to change. This is who he is.

Cousins did lead us on a drive to the 6 yard line in the second half. So he did do something it wasn't a total melt down. Once there everything fell apart. The sequence started after the Vikings (5-6) had a first-and-goal at the 6 early in the fourth quarter trailing 34-26.
Two runs by Alexander Mattison got the ball to the 3, and then Cousins threw an incompletion on third down.
That's when the confusion set in as Justin Jefferson lined up out wide on the right side, only to have Cousins run out to get him to flip to the other side. Cousins then rushed back but lined up under right guard instead of center leading to the wasted timeout.
When the game resumed, Cousins then missed Jefferson in the back of the end zone for a potential tying score.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This below is from a different string.
Recapping Cousins in the the last two and even one minute or less mark performances.
Game winning drive against the undefeated AZ Cards, blown by short missed FG. Game winning drive in regulation against Carolina blown by missed medium FG, What would have almost certainly been a game winning drive against Cinci stopped by phantom fumble call, game tying drive against Cinci in regulation, game winning drive against the Lions with 37 seconds remaining. Game winning drive in OT against the Panthers. This is unprecedented clutch performance in late game situations over a 6 game span in NFL history.
Did I forget one?
Can you blame all of that on Cousins? I guess because he didn't complete the drives.

[CharVike]

RB Dalvin Cook tore his labrum while dislocating his shoulder yesterday, sources said the MRI revealed. But the ailment is not season-ending. The hope is this is like 2019, when the team rests Cook a few games to have him healthy for a playoff run.