Vikings - 49ers postgame

[J. Kapp 11]

OK, since nobody seems interested in starting this thread (and since I have nothing better to do) I’ll get it going.

But where to start?

The Vikings were severely undermanned. The D-line was so decimated that somebody named T.J. Smith played significant snaps. Christian Darrisaw and Dalvin Cook went down with injuries. To even have a chance in the fourth quarter was a testament to either the grittiness of the Vikings or the incompetence of Jimmy Garroppolo.

We could rightly blast Mike Zimmer for the defense’s inability to stop the run. We could rip the O-line, which has undergone a stunning reversal from a unit that couldn’t pass block to one that has forgotten that it used to be good at run blocking but for the most part manages to keep Kirk Cousins upright.

However, speaking of Cousins …

What the hell, Kirk D.?

We thought maybe, just maybe, you were turning a corner. You really showed us something against the Packers. You were nearly perfect against the Chargers. You were taking shots downfield. Some of your most ardent supporters were even using the words “dark-horse MVP candidate.”

Even in this game, where you weren’t exactly on fire, you had your team in position to tie the game late.

But then, on a crucial fourth-and-goal play, you lined up under … Oli Udoh?

It’s not just that you lined up under your right guard. It’s that you did it with the play clock running down. It’s that you caused the Vikings to burn a valuable timeout, one that would’ve come in handy later.

It’s also that you allowed your critics to once again label you (correctly in this case) a buffoon.

Then, to top it off, you fired a pass 12 feet over Justin Jefferson’s head to turn it over on downs. Kind of like you did on your last play, when Jefferson had won his route and you could’ve kept hopes alive with an accurate throw.

Kirk D., after an entire season of solid play, after many Vikings fans had come to your defense — me included — you turned back into Kirk Cousins, Laughingstock. The guy who once took a knee instead of clocking the ball. The guy who loses his bearings when the game is on the line.

Look, Kirk Cousins didn’t lose this game by himself. Plenty of other phases played poorly. But great quarterbacks — MVP quarterbacks — lift the boat when it’s full of holes. You had chance after chance to do that Sunday, but you didn’t have nearly enough buoyancy. And when you put your hands on Oli Udoh’s a$$ (how shocked must HE have been), you were pouring water back into the boat at the moment it would either sink or float.

You’ve had a good year, Kirk. But you’re no MVP.

So there you have it. The conversation is underway. Feel free to add.

[StumpHunter]

I expected the defensive line to struggle to stop the run, they were starting 4 backups at every position on the Dline and not necessarily good backups either. It didn't help that the offense essentially gifted SF 10 points off of turnovers either.

The O needed to pick up the slack in this one, and instead it made things even harder for a banged up D.

[CharVike]

Sorry guys I started one at the same time. Reading the review on a playoff form was getting tough.
Tough loss. Our DL is so banged up that containing teams will be very hard. On a positive we put pressure on Jimmy G. When we had first and goal from the 6 and couldn't get it in that was a back breaker. Then we hit a nice break after a long drive and they missed a FG. Looked like Cousins lost his accuracy that last drive. We were still in it which was hard to believe. Based on the pre game most felt this was a toss up. Two turnovers the second half didn't help. The 49ers aren't a great team and are similar to us. Our O didn't do much after halftime. They killed the hope. The kid we have returning kicks is electric. Cook will get an MRI today and you can't expect good news. That 49er team hits hard.That will carry over.

[Dmizzle0]

Kirk had a bad game. But I can't put it square on his shoulders. Defense was depleted up front and that was really bad especially against a strong run team. Sheldon Richardson did his thing though. Pass Defense started of hot but cooled off later in the game.

The other factor were the refs. They #### sucked. Yea we had opportunities to overcome and I felt we did given the environment of being an away game in the west coast. First of all how the #### does the ref let Norman get away punch Theilen when the play was right in front of him. The phantom PI call on Kittle the Hobbit was bs and definitely killed morale on that drive. 9ers got away with so many holdings it felt like we were playing the Packers! Finally that PI 3rd down, that was complete bs another momentum killing moment. Yea Kirk could've thrown the ball better on the next play but again if it was 1st down like it should have been the pressure wouldn't have been high.

Given all the bs, we only lost by 1 score and honestly it's not a bad loss but given the playoff implications this stings a lot. Again I can't put this all on Cousins but I understand if others do I just hate when games are decided by the refs!

[CharVike]

OK, since nobody seems interested in starting this thread (and since I have nothing better to do) I’ll get it going.

But where to start?

The Vikings were severely undermanned. The D-line was so decimated that somebody named T.J. Smith played significant snaps. Christian Darrisaw and Dalvin Cook went down with injuries. To even have a chance in the fourth quarter was a testament to either the grittiness of the Vikings or the incompetence of Jimmy Garroppolo.

We could rightly blast Mike Zimmer for the defense’s inability to stop the run. We could rip the O-line, which has undergone a stunning reversal from a unit that couldn’t pass block to one that has forgotten that it used to be good at run blocking but for the most part manages to keep Kirk Cousins upright.

However, speaking of Cousins …

What the hell, Kirk D.?

We thought maybe, just maybe, you were turning a corner. You really showed us something against the Packers. You were nearly perfect against the Chargers. You were taking shots downfield. Some of your most ardent supporters were even using the words “dark-horse MVP candidate.”

Even in this game, where you weren’t exactly on fire, you had your team in position to tie the game late.

But then, on a crucial fourth-and-goal play, you lined up under … Oli Udoh?

It’s not just that you lined up under your right guard. It’s that you did it with the play clock running down. It’s that you caused the Vikings to burn a valuable timeout, one that would’ve come in handy later.

It’s also that you allowed your critics to once again label you (correctly in this case) a buffoon.

Then, to top it off, you fired a pass 12 feet over Justin Jefferson’s head to turn it over on downs. Kind of like you did on your last play, when Jefferson had won his route and you could’ve kept hopes alive with an accurate throw.

Kirk D., after an entire season of solid play, after many Vikings fans had come to your defense — me included — you turned back into Kirk Cousins, Laughingstock. The guy who once took a knee instead of clocking the ball. The guy who loses his bearings when the game is on the line.

Look, Kirk Cousins didn’t lose this game by himself. Plenty of other phases played poorly. But great quarterbacks — MVP quarterbacks — lift the boat when it’s full of holes. You had chance after chance to do that Sunday, but you didn’t have nearly enough buoyancy. And when you put your hands on Oli Udoh’s a$$ (how shocked must HE have been), you were pouring water back into the boat at the moment it would either sink or float.

You’ve had a good year, Kirk. But you’re no MVP.

So there you have it. The conversation is underway. Feel free to add.

There's nothing wrong with supporting our QB. He's not at the Brady or Rodgers level and never was or will be. He sucked the 2nd half. To have a chance with him you need a very good D. But if you look around the NFL there is a tremendous shortage of QBs. Lamar, who is top level, threw 4 interceptions and his team still won. That's almost impossible. There D gave up 10 points. Plus Mayfield is worse than Cousins. He had a last drive chance and 4 plays and out. There's teams out there that need a QB and we should try and trade our guy. Get whatever is offered. Maybe we will find a HOFer with the next one or the one after that or....... IMO the focus should be on D.

[VikingLord]

I think I'm done watching the team until Cousins, Zimmer and Spielman are gone.

Honestly, that isn't something I'm saying out of frustration at yesterday's loss. It's more an acknowledgment that this iteration of the Vikings is the dog that just ain't gonna hunt. While the Packers won again, the Vikings lost, and it isn't just that they lost, but it's the *way* they lost that pretty much convinced me there is no point in spending time on this "Groundhog Day" team until some substantial changes are made.

Start with Cousins. Yesterday, we saw the *real* Kirk Cousins rear his head yet again. He seemed panicked. Constant checkdowns. Not seeing the field. God-freakin-AWFUL accuracy. I mean, Adam Thielen had to constantly contort his body in almost superhuman ways to make some of the grabs he did. Amazing play on his part, but Cousins was so far off the mark so consistently that I'm honestly worried about him physically. The pick he threw was unreal for a veteran QB. I expected Jimmy G to make mistakes like that, but not Cousins. What frustrates me the most is that if Cousins can be counted on to do anything consistently, it is that he will play inconsistently like this. You get the performances we saw against the Chargers and the Packers, and then you get the clunkers we just saw yesterday against the 49ers. Streaks of good, sometimes great play followed by equally frustrating streaks of "how is this guy even a pro QB" play like we saw yesterday.

I'm just done watching that. I don't know what is going on with Kirk but whatever it is, there is just no way he can lead a team to a Superbowl, much less win one with that level of consistent inconsistency.

Others have mentioned the defensive line and other injuries on defense. Yeah, that wasn't the Vikings defense at full strength for sure, but then again, did anyone really notice any difference between those guys and the regular starters? I didn't. They stopped the run about as well yesterday as I think the initial starters would have, and they got plenty of pressure on Jimmy G.

But just as with Cousins, the defense was maddeningly inconsistent. Guys running wide open deep in the secondary all game. How does that happen against a team like SF? And yet, all freakin game. The Vikings have vets up the ying yang in the secondary, and yet they can't shut down or even plausibly make some of those throws a little more difficult? And it's not like Jimmy G is throwing darts, either. But you leave guys that wide open and it's way too easy. Not sure what is wrong in the secondary but that is another area where the Vikings would do well to clean house after this season is over.

Lastly, field goal kicker. I honestly would be OK if Joseph never attempts another field goal or extra point the rest of the year. Zimmer can go for it on every 4th down and just go for 2 points after every score from here on out. The guy is just like Cousins, just like the defensive secondary, just like the team overall. Consistently inconsistent. Can screw up on almost any given kick in any given conditions.

What it all boils down to is that the Green Bay Packers won the NFC North in 2019 with a 13-3 record, won it again in 2020 with a 13-3 record, and look poised to win it again with a similar record in 2021 now. They've gone to 2 straight NFC Championship games and look poised to get there again in 2021 as well.

Meanwhile, the last time the Vikings were actually any good was with a 3rd string journeyman QB back in 2017 and have made the playoffs exactly once since, losing badly in the Divisional round to almost a carbon copy of that same 49ers team we saw yesterday. Since Cousins joined the Vikings they have been a .500 team, barely missing the playoffs twice and barely making them once.

And here we sit, the fans, somehow thinking this is a good team or can be a good team, when deep down we know it is not and will not be.

I'm sure they'll beat the Lions next week to get to 6-6. Great. Wow. Hats off. Cousins will play well again and the defense will do what it's done all year, giving up some way-too-easy scores. It will be another closer-than-it-should-have-been win against a team more cursed than they are.

Up-and-down all year. Closer-than-it-should-be all year. In the end, they might eke their way into the playoffs as a wildcard, and might even eke out a win as a wildcard, but beyond that, does anyone really believe this team as constituted could go farther than that?

Yeah, I'll start paying attention again when substantial changes are made at all levels of the organization. I'm still a Minnesota Vikings fan and always will be, but I'm not a sap. I'm tired of watching the Packers just dominate the division year after year while we get garbage like we saw yesterday year after year. I hope the Wilfs take the garbage out after this season is over. It's stinking up the house.

[soflavike]

Cousins had a bad game. He made several bad throws at critical times. The dirt ball to Jefferson in the end zone. The overthrow on the 4th down to JJ in the end zone. Even the second TD to Thielen was poorly thrown, requiring extreme acrobatics from #19 to catch the ball. His long ball game was not there. And the pick was just a bad decision and a pretty dumb one at that. It's not like it was some complex disguised coverage.

The running game was bad, just awful. Cook got blown up at the LOS, play after play and now he's hurt. This OL cannot run block effectively. They got out-muscled all game.

The defense looked like a bunch of backups, and many of them are. Our inability to shut teams down on 3rd and long is a severe problem. The Zimmer soft zone leaves way too much space in the middle of the field and our safeties aren't able to close fast enough. Woods is a backup-quailty safety and Harry has maybe lost a step. Our pass rush was pretty poor most of the game, with a couple of exceptions.

Bright spots:
Kene Nwangwu, who is plain dangerous returning KO's. Props to the kickoff return unit as a whole.
Adam Thielen, who has hands of glue and amazing football IQ.

The idiots
Dantzler got away with throwing a punch (he missed wildly, kind of like his cover technique).
Our stupid kicker misses another extra point.
Zimmer, looking like the opposite of a defensive genius once again.
Sheldon Richardson lining up offsides when they were running the hurry up.

If we play like this next week, Detroit gets its first win of the season.

[psjordan]

The [kicker] is just like Cousins, just like the defensive secondary, just like the team overall. Consistently inconsistent. Can screw up on almost any given [play] in any given conditions ... Up-and-down all year. Closer-than-it-should-be all year.

I realize a lot of posters here like to wax on and on about the players and Spielman's (in)ability to find good ones, but there is simply no more robust indictment of a coaching staff than what you have stated.

If the issues remain the same, game after game and year after year, it's the coaching staff. There is simply no other viable, in-the-realm-of-probable explanation. None. Coaches coaches coaches. It's the coaches. No other individual or group has anywhere NEAR the influence our coaching staff has on our players.

[StumpHunter]

No other individual or group has anywhere NEAR the influence our coaching staff has on our players.

Except the players themselves.

[halfgiz]

Kirk is just 500 QB getting paid top 10 wage. He sure didn’t have a good game yesterday.
50/50 chance in a clutch situation with Kirk.

I was reading about Cook, he is already playing with a slight tear in the other shoulder.
If he has a tear from yesterday’s injury. It might be time to shut him down.

Has anyone heard how serious Darrisaw injury was?

[Maelstrom88]

I'm honestly wondering why Andre Patterson gets so much credit here. He developed Hunter.. ok Hunter probably would have been good on any team. We have invested a lot of capital in the defensive line, back ups included, and they suck. I don't get the love affair with the guy anymore. The Vikings need to clean house. If it takes a loss to the Lions then I hope it happens. We are financially locked in to a lot of overpaid players for at least one more year.

[psjordan]

Except the players themselves.

100% disagree.

[J. Kapp 11]

I hope you all understand ... my OP was not really an account of who I thought was to blame for yesterday. I'm not blaming Cousins ... well, not ONLY Cousins.

My point about Cousins is this.

It's one thing to be clutch when your team is playing well. When everything is going mostly right. When your offense is clicking, like it was against Green Bay. Lots of good quarterbacks can come through in the clutch in those situations.

What takes you over the top to become GREAT is the ability to save your team when it doesn't have its best stuff.

Yeah, we can blame Mike Zimmer for the inability to stop the run. But you know what? We all KNEW going into that game that we were going to struggle stopping their ground game. We knew that if we were going to beat the 49ers, the Vikings would have to score. It was no surprise, at least not to me, that the 49ers put up 30+. The Vikings' defense was severely undermanned, especially in the area that could most likely stop their ground game — the defensive line.

As poorly as our defense played — and it was abysmal — the Vikings STILL had MULTIPLE chances to win that game. And each and every time they had a chance, they panicked. Kirk Cousins panicked.

Again, it's what you do when the sh!t is flying around you and your team's back is against the wall that measures your greatness as a quarterback.

Do any of you think there's a snowball's chance in hell that Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers lines up under the right guard on 4th-and-goal with the game on the line? Look at the TEAM in that situation. They didn't line up correctly. There was some confusion as to what the play was. Our second-string running back had to remind our $35 million quarterback that Oli Udoh doesn't snap the ball. Where is the calm in the storm? Where is the "Don't worry, I got this"? Instead, we get Maxwell Smart and the Chief: "Are you thinking what I'm thinking?" "I don't know. Were you thinking 'Holy sh!t, holy sh!t, a swordfish almost went through my head?' If so, then yes."

It was a mess. A Chinese fire drill instead of a 2-minute drill. Pretty much how it usually is in those situations with every Mike Zimmer coached team in the 8 years he's been our coach. In virtually every late-game situation, we panic. We line up incorrectly. We scramble. We look like we don't know what we're doing. Because we don't. That's coaching. That's the quarterback. That's the players (on both sides of the ball). It's everything. Again, we did fine when it was Detroit at home, or when everything was working like the Packers game. But when there's a chance to win in an otherwise crappy game, forget it.

Yesterday did two things for me.

1. It firmly established that Kirk Cousins is NOT on the top tier when it comes to NFL quarterbacks.
He's a gifted passer. He's well prepared. He commands a reasonable amount of respect from his teammates. But he's not great, and he's not great because he can't get past who he is ... somebody who follows a script. It's like the Lego Movie. Are you a guy who needs the instructions, or can you improvise? It's all got to go right for Cousins to shine. And he doesn't lift his team when the boat is sinking in the sh!tstorm.

2. It showed me how broken the organization is from top to bottom — it's dysfunctional beyond repair.
From the front office to the coach to the players, there is something very wrong with this team. The coach wants to play a certain way, but his way is outmoded. The GM wants to stockpile Day 3 draft picks instead of finding true difference makers. Probably because his coach loathes superstars. The quarterback desperately needs to be loved and coddled, which his coach (who never wanted him) isn't about to do. There's no cohesion, no alignment of purpose. Nothing. It's so broken, and it's not repairable.

Somebody asked on a call-in show today whether the Vikings could contend with Zimmer and Cousins if Zimmer were to hire a true innovator on offense, then get out of the way and let them shine. My answer is an unqualified NO. As I stated in some detail in another thread, Zimmer and Cousins cannot coexist in the same football universe. Whose fault is that? I don't care.

My personal preference would be to start over. All of them, from Spielman on down, fired. They've been doing this slight-of-hand with the fans for too long, where they make you believe they can contend with this pickup and that (Dalvin Tomlinson, Bashaud Breeland come to mind) and stay just close enough in games, even against the best teams, to give you hope. But it's Lucy and the football.

This iteration of the Minnesota Vikings organization is broken. It can't be fixed. Toss it in the trash, open the Amazon app and order a new one.

[Maelstrom88]

Not that I'm saying Cousins is a franchise QB but Tom Brady did forget it was 4th down last year against Chicago.

[StpViking]

Well if we're going to pile in on Cousins, here's my piece.

Before the 2021 season, Cousins was 7-35 against winning teams. He'll add to both sides of those numbers the end of this season. What in the you know what made Rick Spielman think he was the answer to finally winning the Superbowl for this Franchise?