Article about Zim and Cousins interactions

[StanM]

This was shared this morning (Monday 2/28) about the Zimmer Cousins relationship. I'm sure more will come out on this and other things going on in the building. Seems like Zim suddenly went full on curmudgeon in his mid 60's. It is interesting to note what bothered him about Cousins, he didn't elevate the team. Where have we heard that before?

https://fansided.com/2022/02/28/mike-zi ... _aid=36534

[VikingsFan84]

Can we move on from Zimmer already?

[StumpHunter]

Can we move on from Zimmer already?

Agreed, but if Zimmer and his staff felt that way about our current QB this is relevant to the current team.

[makila]

Here is Graffs article on the Athletic for context:

INDIANAPOLIS — Mike Zimmer spent part of his last few weeks as Vikings head coach bemoaning the team’s situation at quarterback.

The veteran defensive guru had made more of an effort to get the best out of Kirk Cousins in 2021, conducting weekly meetings with the quarterback for the first time in their four years together. But toward the end, it became clear to those within the building that the head coach-quarterback relationship hadn’t blossomed the way many had hoped it would before the season, according to sources.

Zimmer complained openly in coaching meetings about Cousins, and some of Zimmer’s top lieutenants echoed the sentiment. Zimmer didn’t feel the quarterback made enough “winning plays,” that he didn’t take the necessary shots to help lead the Vikings to victory, and that he didn’t elevate his teammates.

But that view wasn’t shared by everyone. Some, especially in the front office, thought Zimmer didn’t handle the situation well. They acknowledged to Zimmer that Cousins isn’t a perfect quarterback but felt Zimmer’s job as head coach was to get the most out of the quarterback — and undercutting his play in coaching meetings didn’t help.

The Vikings hope that drama is in the past. Zimmer and general manager Rick Spielman were fired, replaced by Kevin O’Connell and Kwesi Adofo-Mensah. But the failed relationship between Zimmer and Cousins underscores a troubling point that the Vikings will have to grapple with under a new regime. Cousins has had two head coaches in his seven years as a starter, and both coaches left convinced they couldn’t win with him at the helm.

Now the attention turns to O’Connell. The Vikings have intimated that they hired the former Rams offensive coordinator with the hope that his scheme can get the best out of Cousins, even if rumors about a potential Cousins trade will surely swirl here this week at the NFL Scouting Combine.

If Cousins indeed remains with the Vikings as they’ve suggested he will, there’s no more important relationship within the franchise than O’Connell and Cousins. O’Connell has talked about an approach that would maximize Cousins’ talents, allowing him to play free and “quiet-minded.”

Perhaps he can find success with Cousins where Zimmer and former Washington coach Jay Gruden couldn’t. Zimmer left their relationship thinking that Cousins wasn’t good enough to win big. Gruden left frustrated that Cousins wouldn’t fit the ball into tight windows. Neither thought they were on the cusp of a Super Bowl with Cousins at quarterback.

Of course, it’s fair to note that not every assistant coach Cousins has worked with feels that way. Kyle Shanahan, Cousins’ former offensive coordinator, remains high on the quarterback and tried to land him in San Francisco after Shanahan became the head coach there. He liked Cousins’ accuracy and ability to process plays. He felt he needed a quarterback who comprehended both what the offense and defense were doing and could make the necessary throws after making the right reads. He thought Cousins could do all of that.

Maybe that’s why it’s enticing to picture Cousins with O’Connell, a Sean McVay disciple who shares similar philosophies with Shanahan. O’Connell helped squeeze success out of Jared Goff and produced a Super Bowl title with Matthew Stafford. His playbook is designed to make life easy for the quarterback. He said in his very first interview with the Vikings that his goal would be to bring the best out of Cousins, and it seems easier to trust that he’d be capable of that than Gruden or Zimmer.

“I know who (Cousins) is as a player, and I know what he’s capable of, and part of our job as coaches is maximizing a player’s ability to go out every single Sunday and have success,” O’Connell said. “I feel that’s going to be an advantage for us as we build our system offensively, make sure we really focus on the things Kirk does well, which I do think are a lot of aspects of playing the position, and help him on a daily basis connect with his team, lead us, be a completely quiet-minded quarterback that can go play because he’s talented enough to go do that.”

On the other hand, it’s hard to ignore how things ended with Cousins’ last two coaches.

There’s also the open question about Cousins’ contract. He has one year remaining on a deal that includes a $45 million cap hit this season, something that makes it hardly ideal to bring him back at that price. An extension, which could lower that number, is possible, but Cousins has offered no indication that he’d be willing to sign at a discount. Perhaps no NFL player has done a better job at leveraging his situation for a bigger contract than Cousins has throughout his career. In an offseason where some quarterbacks could sign extensions for more than $40 million per year, a Cousins extension likely wouldn’t come cheap.

The only other alternative is a trade. But with an ownership group advocating for another playoff season amid its goal of continued success, it’s hard to imagine the Vikings dealing him and improving since a Cousins trade would probably yield draft picks as compensation.

So those are the options the Vikings are left to consider as their new brass descends on Indianapolis for its first combine atop the organization.

If they choose to keep Cousins, it’ll be a bet on O’Connell and his ability to break the trend and connect with Cousins in a way that brings the best out of the quarterback. In many ways, he seems capable of that. He’s only three years older than Cousins, he’s a former NFL quarterback and he has spent his coaching career learning a system that’s supposed to make things easier for quarterbacks, one Cousins has previously had success in.

But after the last head coach left disenchanted with the quarterback, there’s no more important relationship for the Vikings than the one between Cousins and O’Connell.

[Texas Vike]

Remember that post game 'celebration' / 'fight'? The one after the Lions win?

This one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IhNh22ZS2I

Reads a bit different now, eh?

[Maelstrom88]

Seems to me Zimmer's defense was to blame for most issues last year. He honestly sounds like an awful HC the more you learn. He has had issues getting along with many players and offensive coordinators. He also screwed up cutting Daniel Carlson who is now one of if not the best kickers in the game. Thrilled him and Rick are gone. We are much better off. Rick screwed up our cap for this year too.

[fiestavike]

I personally find Kirk Cousins irritating, phony, and generally dreadful at facing pressure and adapting. Under the gun, he often turns into an airhead. But this team has been so confusing for a number of years. IF you are going to sign Kirk, and re-sign Kirk, isn't building an Offensive Line that can keep him from facing pressure a prerequisite for a sustained high level of success? Nothing is even 1/4 as important as QB play in today's NFL, so if Kirk is your QB, why not do what you need to do in order to give him the best chance of success possible? I suppose because they have understandably had one foot out the door on Kirk from the start. In fact, they've had one foot out the door on every QB they've had on the team at least since Teddy Bridgewater.

Meanwhile on the other side of the ball Zimmer's read and react defense timed out long ago. YOU CAN'T HIT THE OTHER TEAM'S PLAYERS ZIM! Great, if we are in 3rd and long we can dictate where the QB needs to go with the ball and close and tackle him. 4th and 2. Yippee! But getting into 3rd and long depends on the other team blowing it, failing to execute, not being able to take advantage of what should be an easy pitch and catch. That's the NFL today, and the only way your defense can be anything but a non-factor against a decent QB is by applying pressure. The only thing holding NFL offenses back today is that they don't practice anymore. Otherwise they would be putting up 70 a game. Other than by pressure, nearly all defensive "stops" consist of an offense shooting itself in the foot.

Everybody knows that I hate what has happened to the NFL and find modern football unenjoyable to watch, but what has this franchise been up to? Now they have gone 'young' and seemingly hope to modernize, but simultaneously seem unwilling to tear things down and rebuild with a serious longterm vision of the future. Reports are they want to make the playoffs and now seem likely to keep Kirk. Well, whatever. I wish one of these rival leagues would have the sense to pitch itself as real football, utilizing an older rule book. I would jump ship on the NFL so fast.

[StumpHunter]

I personally find Kirk Cousins irritating, phony, and generally dreadful at facing pressure and adapting. Under the gun, he often turns into an airhead. But this team has been so confusing for a number of years. IF you are going to sign Kirk, and re-sign Kirk, isn't building an Offensive Line that can keep him from facing pressure a prerequisite for a sustained high level of success? Nothing is even 1/4 as important as QB play in today's NFL, so if Kirk is your QB, why not do what you need to do in order to give him the best chance of success possible?

I think they actually did do their best, which is part of the reason the HC and GM were fired. No team has drafted more offensive linemen in the first 2 rounds since 2018 than the MN Vikings. Two teams drafted 3 in those rounds and the Vikings drafted 4. Every other team has spent 2 picks or fewer. The Vikings did not have the cap to spend because they were overpaying the QB and still wanted to have a high end defense (something we were also told Cousins needed to win) so they invested heavily in the draft to improve the Oline.

Interestingly enough, the only other two teams that invested almost as much as the Vikings in the first two rounds were the Bengals and Miami. Two of the worst offensive lines in football.

Either building Oline through the draft isn't the way to go or GMs who suck at drafting Oline suck at drafting Oline no matter how many picks they spend.

[makila]

I think the old regime had a serious problem identifying and developing oline prospects. Specifically the interior.

[StanM]

Can we move on from Zimmer already?

Simple solution. Just ignore threads that don’t interest you. The past few toxic seasons resulted in a HC and GM firing. The past is going to continue to have some effect on this team for the foreseeable future and some of us are interest in discussing that. Hell, I still talk about their first game in 1961 with anyone who will listen.

[fiestavike]

I think the old regime had a serious problem identifying and developing oline prospects. Specifically the interior.

And if you have one foot out the door with Kirk Cousins and are perpetually in win now mode, why are you selecting interior OL in the draft, where players generally take some time to develop the old man strength necessary for the NFL game? If Kirk Cousins is your guy for 2-3 years without further commitment, you need to make trades and free up cap space so you can acquire guys who can help now.

[J. Kapp 11]

I personally find Kirk Cousins irritating, phony, and generally dreadful at facing pressure and adapting. Under the gun, he often turns into an airhead. But this team has been so confusing for a number of years. IF you are going to sign Kirk, and re-sign Kirk, isn't building an Offensive Line that can keep him from facing pressure a prerequisite for a sustained high level of success? Nothing is even 1/4 as important as QB play in today's NFL, so if Kirk is your QB, why not do what you need to do in order to give him the best chance of success possible? I suppose because they have understandably had one foot out the door on Kirk from the start. In fact, they've had one foot out the door on every QB they've had on the team at least since Teddy Bridgewater.

Meanwhile on the other side of the ball Zimmer's read and react defense timed out long ago. YOU CAN'T HIT THE OTHER TEAM'S PLAYERS ZIM! Great, if we are in 3rd and long we can dictate where the QB needs to go with the ball and close and tackle him. 4th and 2. Yippee! But getting into 3rd and long depends on the other team blowing it, failing to execute, not being able to take advantage of what should be an easy pitch and catch. That's the NFL today, and the only way your defense can be anything but a non-factor against a decent QB is by applying pressure. The only thing holding NFL offenses back today is that they don't practice anymore. Otherwise they would be putting up 70 a game. Other than by pressure, nearly all defensive "stops" consist of an offense shooting itself in the foot.

Everybody knows that I hate what has happened to the NFL and find modern football unenjoyable to watch, but what has this franchise been up to? Now they have gone 'young' and seemingly hope to modernize, but simultaneously seem unwilling to tear things down and rebuild with a serious longterm vision of the future. Reports are they want to make the playoffs and now seem likely to keep Kirk. Well, whatever. I wish one of these rival leagues would have the sense to pitch itself as real football, utilizing an older rule book. I would jump ship on the NFL so fast.

All I can say is don't despair yet, at least not about the Vikings' approach.

The league year doesn't start until March 16. That's when things will start to happen, if they're going to happen. Yes, the Vikings are talking like they're going to stay with Cousins. I'll believe it when I see it.

As for the rules, I got no answer.

[J. Kapp 11]

I personally find Kirk Cousins irritating, phony, and generally dreadful at facing pressure and adapting. Under the gun, he often turns into an airhead. But this team has been so confusing for a number of years. IF you are going to sign Kirk, and re-sign Kirk, isn't building an Offensive Line that can keep him from facing pressure a prerequisite for a sustained high level of success? Nothing is even 1/4 as important as QB play in today's NFL, so if Kirk is your QB, why not do what you need to do in order to give him the best chance of success possible?

I think they actually did do their best, which is part of the reason the HC and GM were fired. No team has drafted more offensive linemen in the first 2 rounds since 2018 than the MN Vikings. Two teams drafted 3 in those rounds and the Vikings drafted 4. Every other team has spent 2 picks or fewer. The Vikings did not have the cap to spend because they were overpaying the QB and still wanted to have a high end defense (something we were also told Cousins needed to win) so they invested heavily in the draft to improve the Oline.

Interestingly enough, the only other two teams that invested almost as much as the Vikings in the first two rounds were the Bengals and Miami. Two of the worst offensive lines in football.

Either building Oline through the draft isn't the way to go or GMs who suck at drafting Oline suck at drafting Oline no matter how many picks they spend.

It's been said (I can't remember who) that smart teams draft BPA and sign or trade for need.

Problem is that the Vikings can't sign anybody because they're constantly over the cap.

I won't go into why that is (Cough! Cough - usins!). I think it's been said enough.

[Pondering Her Percy]

The Vikings did not have the cap to spend because they were overpaying the QB and still wanted to have a high end defense

I dont agree here. They put an equivalent amount of money toward this defense in 2017 and they were the #1 defense in the NFL. We put $72 million towards the defense in 2017 compared to $80 million to the defense in 2021. Given the cap goes up over the years, these numbers were near equivalent to each other. Many fans like to use the excuse of "well the defense wasnt good because Cousins was taking up so much cap". Not true. We spent $2 million more on the defense than the offense in 2021 (and the offense had a QB with an inflated contract on it). AND a lot of this defense was brought in through free agency in 2020 and 2021.

Bottom line is, Zimmer lost this team and lost his effectiveness as a coach on the defensive side of the ball. No other way around it.

Zim had a DL that consisted of Hunter, Griffen, Pierce, Tomlinson, Richardson, Wonnum, Watts, Lynch, etc. 95% of the NFL would kill for a DL with that talent on it. He had LBs of Kendricks and Barr. And as much as some hate Barr, he actually did have a fairly decent year this year. Had safeties of Harrison Smith and Xavier Woods (who was basically the equivalent or better than guys like Harris or Sendejo). And probably the weakest part of the defense (CB) still had Peterson, Dantzler (who should've played over Breeland all year) and Alexander. Not great CBs by any means, but no reason it should've been as bad as it was. This defense had PLENTY of talent to be better than 31st in the NFL.

Have some of these guys aged like Harrison, Griffen, Kendricks, Barr, etc? Yes. But lets be honest, Mike Zimmer DID NOT want to replace them. Those were his guys. Those were the guys that knew his defense. He kept them by choice. Not because he was stuck with them.

So let's not sit here and act like this defense was bare bones and we couldnt spend any money on it because of Cousins contract. We spent $80 million on it (11th most on the defensive side in the NFL). Cousins has his faults in terms of play and contract demands dont get me wrong but Cousins had nothing to do with this defense playing like absolute garbage all year. That is a fact.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Problem is that the Vikings can't sign anybody because they're constantly over the cap.

I won't go into why that is (Cough! Cough - usins!). I think it's been said enough.

Not true. In 2021, the Vikings free agency spending was ranked just below league average. They spent nearly $30 million on the defense alone last year. Just for them to still finish 31st in the NFL. That doesnt sound like it has anything to do with Kirk Cousins or his contract.

Look, I am by no means in favor of his current contract. I think we either need to trade him or extend him. But I cant continue to read the "Because of Cousins' contract, this happened...." comments. This team had the ability to spend since Cousins has been here regardless of his contract. This team has made plenty of big name signings in free agency since Cousins has been here. Pierce, Tomlinson, Peterson, Richardson, Woods, Alexander, Vigil, etc. as well as retained a lot of their own. Barr, Hunter, Smith, Kendricks, etc.

Who needing replacing on this defense? Barr? Do you think Zim was going to let him walk? The aging Harrison Smith? Another guy that Zim would never let walk. Everson? A guy Zim takes under his wing. Kendricks? Another Zim guy that he would never let go. We act like there were holes all over this defense. Sure there were some shady areas but again, not "31st ranked in the NFL" shady. These situations and these contracts, had absolutely nothing to do with Kirk Cousins and everything to do with Zimmer/Spielman. More so Zimmer given it was his side of the ball.