Our OC may not be the answer

[YikesVikes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPUG9FfrY9c

This video breaks down and should silence some of the Cousin haters reading. However, at 14:48, Brett really breaks down how Kevin may be limited in his ability to analyze what the defense is doing and adjust. Watching that reminded me that many expect him to be a savior when he has no experience calling games (except last season). I'm not sure that I wanted him for my OC and I was hoping that he moved on and we went with Callahan.

[CharVike]

Hello washed up Kub was hired for something. It's not the best situation when the main guy has zero experience and he needs a mentor. On a positive the vibe last year was JDF was a great hire. So maybe this will work. We will become a pound the rock team and with one of the best at holding teams down from scoring it should be straight forward. As an example if we meet the Rams again again it should be a 21-17 game. Us chewing the clock and pounding the ball and the Rams not being able to penetrate our secondary. That's how it looks based on stats. With that it will be 41-35 and the Rams setting a world record for passing yards and QB rating. Just one bad game though.

[CharVike]

Hello washed up Kub was hired for something. It's not the best situation when the main guy has zero experience and he needs a mentor. On a positive the vibe last year was JDF was a great hire. So maybe this will work. We will become a pound the rock team and with one of the best at holding teams down from scoring it should be straight forward. As an example if we meet the Rams again again it should be a 21-17 game. Us chewing the clock and pounding the ball and the Rams not being able to penetrate our secondary. That's how it looks based on stats. With that it will be 41-35 and the Rams setting a world record for passing yards and QB rating. Just one bad game though.

[808vikingsfan]

I usually like Kollman's stuff but I feel he was just making excuses in this one. Only watched up to the Saints loss.

I think what it comes down to is Cousins does not make good decisions when under pressure. He does not have to ability to escape and improvise. For both fumbles (Rams, Saints), it'd be better off for the team if he'd just take the sack or loss of yds.

Rams fumble: If he was more of a scrambler, he could have felt the pressure and quickly move to the left to buy more time. Or.. hit Treadwell right from the start. He had almost 3 seconds to throw. He pats the ball, pump fakes, pats the ball again, doesn't feel the pressure from behind or the right, and gets strip sacked..

The Saints: 4th and 1. Bad decision IMO. Thielen was covered by a LB and was open. Easy throw, easy 1st down. But instead he targets Treadwell. Looks like the ball sailed on him and made it a difficult catch with the defender getting a hand on the ball. Should have threw it low and right at Treadwell. The pick 6: Miscommunitcation? Cousins just panicked and made a bad play. So if you see your QB in trouble, you should stick to your route? Maybe I'm naive but I usually see WR's break routes in that type of situation. Rather he take the sack there. He's just not a QB that does well improvising.

I think in most of the examples Kollman uses, different decisions by Cousins could have yielded better results. Of course it's easy to do this after the fact. Still, the opportunities were there. He is not talented enough to improvise and extend plays. He needs everything in front of him and in order to be successful which puts a lot of pressure on the rest of the team. Maybe Cousins is not THE problem, but I think he's part of it.

[VikingsVictorious]

I usually like Kollman's stuff but I feel he was just making excuses in this one. Only watched up to the Saints loss.

I think what it comes down to is Cousins does not make good decisions when under pressure. He does not have to ability to escape and improvise. For both fumbles (Rams, Saints), it'd be better off for the team if he'd just take the sack or loss of yds.

Rams fumble: If he was more of a scrambler, he could have felt the pressure and quickly move to the left to buy more time. Or.. hit Treadwell right from the start. He had almost 3 seconds to throw. He pats the ball, pump fakes, pats the ball again, doesn't feel the pressure from behind or the right, and gets strip sacked..

The Saints: 4th and 1. Bad decision IMO. Thielen was covered by a LB and was open. Easy throw, easy 1st down. But instead he targets Treadwell. Looks like the ball sailed on him and made it a difficult catch with the defender getting a hand on the ball. Should have threw it low and right at Treadwell. The pick 6: Miscommunitcation? Cousins just panicked and made a bad play. So if you see your QB in trouble, you should stick to your route? Maybe I'm naive but I usually see WR's break routes in that type of situation. Rather he take the sack there. He's just not a QB that does well improvising.

I think in most of the examples Kollman uses, different decisions by Cousins could have yielded better results. Of course it's easy to do this after the fact. Still, the opportunities were there. He is not talented enough to improvise and extend plays. He needs everything in front of him and in order to be successful which puts a lot of pressure on the rest of the team. Maybe Cousins is not THE problem, but I think he's part of it.

Cousins is without any question not part of the problem. IMO he is a very big part of the solution.

[CharVike]

I usually like Kollman's stuff but I feel he was just making excuses in this one. Only watched up to the Saints loss.

I think what it comes down to is Cousins does not make good decisions when under pressure. He does not have to ability to escape and improvise. For both fumbles (Rams, Saints), it'd be better off for the team if he'd just take the sack or loss of yds.

Rams fumble: If he was more of a scrambler, he could have felt the pressure and quickly move to the left to buy more time. Or.. hit Treadwell right from the start. He had almost 3 seconds to throw. He pats the ball, pump fakes, pats the ball again, doesn't feel the pressure from behind or the right, and gets strip sacked..

The Saints: 4th and 1. Bad decision IMO. Thielen was covered by a LB and was open. Easy throw, easy 1st down. But instead he targets Treadwell. Looks like the ball sailed on him and made it a difficult catch with the defender getting a hand on the ball. Should have threw it low and right at Treadwell. The pick 6: Miscommunitcation? Cousins just panicked and made a bad play. So if you see your QB in trouble, you should stick to your route? Maybe I'm naive but I usually see WR's break routes in that type of situation. Rather he take the sack there. He's just not a QB that does well improvising.

I think in most of the examples Kollman uses, different decisions by Cousins could have yielded better results. Of course it's easy to do this after the fact. Still, the opportunities were there. He is not talented enough to improvise and extend plays. He needs everything in front of him and in order to be successful which puts a lot of pressure on the rest of the team. Maybe Cousins is not THE problem, but I think he's part of it.

Cousins is without any question not part of the problem. IMO he is a very big part of the solution.

Of course Cousins is part of the problem. The whole team and coaching are part of the problem. Our team fought hard last year when nothing broke right for us. We had to fire our OC and were still in the hunt the last game. Last season the Bears were too much for our team. But it's not like they beat the crap out of us. But there D was able to stuff our O. They have a great D. Our D didn't do enough. They scored too many points on us. If we held them to 7 one game we would have been in. Our D isn't good enough for that. They will score 20 something on us this year again. We need to lower that point total or we will be toast against them. In other words play D against a strong team.

[StumpHunter]

I usually like Kollman's stuff but I feel he was just making excuses in this one. Only watched up to the Saints loss.

I think what it comes down to is Cousins does not make good decisions when under pressure. He does not have to ability to escape and improvise. For both fumbles (Rams, Saints), it'd be better off for the team if he'd just take the sack or loss of yds.

Rams fumble: If he was more of a scrambler, he could have felt the pressure and quickly move to the left to buy more time. Or.. hit Treadwell right from the start. He had almost 3 seconds to throw. He pats the ball, pump fakes, pats the ball again, doesn't feel the pressure from behind or the right, and gets strip sacked..

The Saints: 4th and 1. Bad decision IMO. Thielen was covered by a LB and was open. Easy throw, easy 1st down. But instead he targets Treadwell. Looks like the ball sailed on him and made it a difficult catch with the defender getting a hand on the ball. Should have threw it low and right at Treadwell. The pick 6: Miscommunitcation? Cousins just panicked and made a bad play. So if you see your QB in trouble, you should stick to your route? Maybe I'm naive but I usually see WR's break routes in that type of situation. Rather he take the sack there. He's just not a QB that does well improvising.

I think in most of the examples Kollman uses, different decisions by Cousins could have yielded better results. Of course it's easy to do this after the fact. Still, the opportunities were there. He is not talented enough to improvise and extend plays. He needs everything in front of him and in order to be successful which puts a lot of pressure on the rest of the team. Maybe Cousins is not THE problem, but I think he's part of it.

Cousins is without any question not part of the problem. IMO he is a very big part of the solution.

Better play from him against good teams is absolutely part of the solution, I agree.

Hopefully that happens or we will have another average season.

[mansquatch]

That vid is a great summary of the woes in 2018. Onus on the coaches is correct. Assessment of the losses is spot on. Of course I like it, it repeats what I've been saying for the past 10 months...

The Stefanski segment isn't confidence inspiring, but there are some extreme circumstances at play there. One is the fact he had been OC for what 2-3 weeks? Also, that was against Vic Fangio. How many first time OCs are going to out fox a guy like Fangio? Biggest negative to me on that was the fact they didn't adjust out of it. At this point I'm willing to give some benefit of the doubt, as was said above, this is part of why they brought in a guy like Kubiak. I don't think it is fair to judge the guy's ability as OC based on that situation alone.

[VikingLord]

I think in most of the examples Kollman uses, different decisions by Cousins could have yielded better results. Of course it's easy to do this after the fact. Still, the opportunities were there. He is not talented enough to improvise and extend plays. He needs everything in front of him and in order to be successful which puts a lot of pressure on the rest of the team. Maybe Cousins is not THE problem, but I think he's part of it.

When I watched the video at the link, I see a QB who was being asked to do things he is not well-suited to do.

As an example, how many times is Tom Brady criticized for not being talented enough to improvise and extend plays?

I don't think I've ever heard that, and while there have certainly been some Patriot losses where had Tom Brady been a better improviser or scrambler, the team might not have lost, my point is that Belichek rarely puts Brady into situations where he needs to scramble. He does that in multiple ways - he makes sure his offensive line is competent and consistently blocks, he makes sure the Patriots have a competent running game, and he makes sure his offensive scheme and playcalling keeps the defense off balance and not the other way around. And yes, sure, Tom Brady knows the offense like the back of his hand, does a great job of adjusting to defensive tendencies and weaknesses pre-snap, and just executes the heck out of the plays that are called, but the bottom line for me is that there is an ocean of difference between what Cousins was handed last year and what a guy like Brady was handed, and while nobody is as good as Brady, had Cousins gotten the same kind of support and breaks, he would have looked a lot better than he did.

Which I think is largely Kollman's point.

After watching this, it is just that much clearer that the offensive line was just garbage last year. I mean, on how many plays did the tackles just break down completely? On how many plays were the interior OL just bull rushed backwards? In how many situations did the Vikings find themselves where a competent running game could have and should have completely altered the defensive calculus, but didn't/couldn't, which allowed defense after defense to get away with schemes and movement that normally would have gotten them punished for big plays?

I just can't lay the blame for the offensive ineptitude of last season at Cousins' feet. He had his moments and made some bad plays, but the offense overall was just a crap show. Hopefully the Vikings get that cleaned up, because the team is way too talented for them to allow a repeat of last year. And I think if they do manage to get things cleaned up, Cousins is going to look a lot better. Of course, if he's still fumbling, throwing pick-sixes, getting passes batted down, and taking bad sacks then, he'll deservedly get a lot more criticism. But at this point, I think he can be considered part of the solution and not the problem.

Really looking forward to a big bounce-back year from this team.

[808vikingsfan]

I think in most of the examples Kollman uses, different decisions by Cousins could have yielded better results. Of course it's easy to do this after the fact. Still, the opportunities were there. He is not talented enough to improvise and extend plays. He needs everything in front of him and in order to be successful which puts a lot of pressure on the rest of the team. Maybe Cousins is not THE problem, but I think he's part of it.

When I watched the video at the link, I see a QB who was being asked to do things he is not well-suited to do.

What was he asked to do in those examples? OK, maybe the OC was bad, Plays break down, linemen miss assignments from time to time. Still, Cousins needs to Protect the ball. Make better decisions. That's what he needs to do no matter what play was called.

As an example, how many times is Tom Brady criticized for not being talented enough to improvise and extend plays?

I don't think I've ever heard that, and while there have certainly been some Patriot losses where had Tom Brady been a better improviser or scrambler, the team might not have lost, my point is that Belichek rarely puts Brady into situations where he needs to scramble. He does that in multiple ways - he makes sure his offensive line is competent and consistently blocks, he makes sure the Patriots have a competent running game, and he makes sure his offensive scheme and play calling keeps the defense off balance and not the other way around. And yes, sure, Tom Brady knows the offense like the back of his hand, does a great job of adjusting to defensive tendencies and weaknesses pre-snap, and just executes the heck out of the plays that are called, but the bottom line for me is that there is an ocean of difference between what Cousins was handed last year and what a guy like Brady was handed, and while nobody is as good as Brady, had Cousins gotten the same kind of support and breaks, he would have looked a lot better than he did.

If Cousins was winning SBs for this team, you wouldn't hear peep from me. The BIG difference between Brady and Cousins is Brady is so good with his pocket presence and awareness. He feels pressure, moves and shifts to buy time and does not panic. He doesn't make the boneheaded play to hurt the team. Cousins OTOH has very poor pocket presence and awareness. The two fumbles and pick 6 in Kollman's are good examples. He just doesn't make good decisions when under pressure. This is Cousins 8th year? He's been known for a lack of pocket awareness and for making bad plays that hurt his team his entire career. I don't see why we think this will change. He's had good OLs in WAS with good weapons around him. The Vikings need to build the perfect team to win with Cousins. Which comes down to my point, he's part of the problem.

After watching this, it is just that much clearer that the offensive line was just garbage last year. I mean, on how many plays did the tackles just break down completely? On how many plays were the interior OL just bull rushed backwards?

Sure there were breakdowns. But there were a lot of times where the OL did their job and Cousins didn't do his. The first 3rd down of the GB game comes to mind (if memory serves). 3rd down, drops back, has time, holds on the ball too long, gets sacked. Thielen is open down the middle but Kirk doesn't pull the trigger. Next play, punt is blocked and Vikings down 0-7. Opportunities missed like that can be the difference between winning and losing.

[mansquatch]

808 did you watch the video? They showed several instances where Cousins gets stripped and it is a result of an OL breakdown that offers him minimal chance of success, let along means to protect the football. Is the fumble really all his fault in that scenario?

The vid also makes the point that the Vikings were the most lopsided team in terms of run to pass play selection. (heavily favoring passing.) Perhaps the defense is able to tee off a bit due to predictability?

It was just "maybe the OC was bad". Watch the video. The OC WAS BAD!

[VikingLord]

What was he asked to do in those examples? OK, maybe the OC was bad, Plays break down, linemen miss assignments from time to time. Still, Cousins needs to Protect the ball. Make better decisions. That's what he needs to do no matter what play was called.

He's being asked to sit back in obvious passing situations with a garbage offensive line and no real running threat and then expected to thread balls into tightly covered receivers when we know that Cousins isn't great at evading pressure, throwing on the run, or taking a lot of contested chances. That is the QB the Vikings have. They have a guy who, like most pro QBs, is going to struggle if his OL can't block consistently in those situations and defenses are up tight to disrupt routes like what the Pats ran on defense.

I guess my point is, you can't realistically expect to see Cousins at his best if the overall offense and scheme put him consistently into situations where defenses are now able to adjust to maximize his weaknesses. That's what I think Kollman was trying to say and show in his analysis.

The two fumbles and pick 6 in Kollman's are good examples. He just doesn't make good decisions when under pressure. This is Cousins 8th year? He's been known for a lack of pocket awareness and for making bad plays that hurt his team his entire career. I don't see why we think this will change. He's had good OLs in WAS with good weapons around him. The Vikings need to build the perfect team to win with Cousins. Which comes down to my point, he's part of the problem.

Which pick 6 are you talking about? The one against the Saints was not Cousin's fault. The one against the Bears was more his fault, but there I agreed with Kollman that Cousins was trying to overcompensate for the offensive line play that just sucked up and down the line (in both games against the Bears, really). And you're seriously going to put the blame for all of the strip sacks on Cousins after watching Kollman's examples?

They don't need to built the perfect team to win with Cousins. Just give him a competent running game that can keep defenses guessing a little and avoid getting the offense into so many 3rd-and-longs, give him an offensive line that can protect him, and give him an offensive coordinator who can figure out what a defense is doing and make some adjustments. That last game example where the Bears kept knocking out that short crossing route to Diggs is emblematic of an OC who has no clue. If the defense shows it recognizes a play like that, then add a wrinkle that punishes them for that recognition by altering something to take advantage of it.

Sure there were breakdowns. But there were a lot of times where the OL did their job and Cousins didn't do his. The first 3rd down of the GB game comes to mind (if memory serves). 3rd down, drops back, has time, holds on the ball too long, gets sacked. Thielen is open down the middle but Kirk doesn't pull the trigger. Next play, punt is blocked and Vikings down 0-7. Opportunities missed like that can be the difference between winning and losing.

I'm sure no QB is going to be perfect. Even Brady is going to miss things and make a few bad throws.

But I still agree with Kollman on Cousins. Cousins was not the main problem with the offense last year. He stands out only because he was a high profile FA who is getting big money while playing the position where mistakes tend to magnified.

Let's agree to revisit this at the end of this season. Barring major injuries or surprises, like a suspension or something, I think we can both agree that the offensive line looks to be improved overall, the running game should be better, and there is a good chance that the offensive strategy and game planning should be better overall. In other words, Cousins should have a better supporting cast and, as a result, fewer excuses for poor play.

If his supporting cast is indeed better and the result of his play is not, I'll likely agree with your assessment. I just can't do it after what I saw last year. It's too harsh a condemnation of the guy based on the situation he was in.

[Rhodes Closed]

Cousins is a QB that cannot succeed on his strengths alone. He is a QB that is best when complimented by a strong running game and an athletic offensive line. When he has those, he can throw dimes all day long without fear of having to run for his life. When he does have to scramble though, he's hardly the worst choice. He is hardly Roethlisberger levels slow and can force defenders out of position to make a throw if given the opportunity.

The problem with years' past is that Cousins has had barely an opportunity to succeed with many of those things.

[VikingLord]

Cousins is a QB that cannot succeed on his strengths alone. He is a QB that is best when complimented by a strong running game and an athletic offensive line. When he has those, he can throw dimes all day long without fear of having to run for his life. When he does have to scramble though, he's hardly the worst choice. He is hardly Roethlisberger levels slow and can force defenders out of position to make a throw if given the opportunity.

The problem with years' past is that Cousins has had barely an opportunity to succeed with many of those things.

For me the point is the Vikings can win with Cousins. He doesn't have to be brilliant, either. Just competent and he's more than capable of that provided the other pieces in place are competent too.

[VikingsVictorious]

When I watched the video at the link, I see a QB who was being asked to do things he is not well-suited to do.

What was he asked to do in those examples? OK, maybe the OC was bad, Plays break down, linemen miss assignments from time to time. Still, Cousins needs to Protect the ball. Make better decisions. That's what he needs to do no matter what play was called.

As an example, how many times is Tom Brady criticized for not being talented enough to improvise and extend plays?

I don't think I've ever heard that, and while there have certainly been some Patriot losses where had Tom Brady been a better improviser or scrambler, the team might not have lost, my point is that Belichek rarely puts Brady into situations where he needs to scramble. He does that in multiple ways - he makes sure his offensive line is competent and consistently blocks, he makes sure the Patriots have a competent running game, and he makes sure his offensive scheme and play calling keeps the defense off balance and not the other way around. And yes, sure, Tom Brady knows the offense like the back of his hand, does a great job of adjusting to defensive tendencies and weaknesses pre-snap, and just executes the heck out of the plays that are called, but the bottom line for me is that there is an ocean of difference between what Cousins was handed last year and what a guy like Brady was handed, and while nobody is as good as Brady, had Cousins gotten the same kind of support and breaks, he would have looked a lot better than he did.

If Cousins was winning SBs for this team, you wouldn't hear peep from me. The BIG difference between Brady and Cousins is Brady is so good with his pocket presence and awareness. He feels pressure, moves and shifts to buy time and does not panic. He doesn't make the boneheaded play to hurt the team. Cousins OTOH has very poor pocket presence and awareness. The two fumbles and pick 6 in Kollman's are good examples. He just doesn't make good decisions when under pressure. This is Cousins 8th year? He's been known for a lack of pocket awareness and for making bad plays that hurt his team his entire career. I don't see why we think this will change. He's had good OLs in WAS with good weapons around him. The Vikings need to build the perfect team to win with Cousins. Which comes down to my point, he's part of the problem.

After watching this, it is just that much clearer that the offensive line was just garbage last year. I mean, on how many plays did the tackles just break down completely? On how many plays were the interior OL just bull rushed backwards?

Sure there were breakdowns. But there were a lot of times where the OL did their job and Cousins didn't do his. The first 3rd down of the GB game comes to mind (if memory serves). 3rd down, drops back, has time, holds on the ball too long, gets sacked. Thielen is open down the middle but Kirk doesn't pull the trigger. Next play, punt is blocked and Vikings down 0-7. Opportunities missed like that can be the difference between winning and losing.

Cousins QB rating under pressure is one of the best in the league. Brady has made boneheaded plays that have hurt his team.