If we improve the freaking OL...

PurpleMustReign · Post by **PurpleMustReign** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:38 pm

I firmly believe this team is a decent, not even great, but decent OL away from being a legitimate contender. We need to overhaul the OL... Loadholt and Kalil better be the only starters brought back next season. Sullivan will not be good, Fusco is garbage, and Clemmings is terrible (not his fault, and I am willing to give him a second chance).
The OL played well tonight, but not well enough to win, especially on the last drive. Now we see what Teddy can do when he has time... even just a little. I am happy with Teddy's play tonight. However, I am not happy with the result.

Post by **dead_poet** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:48 pm

Sign Boone. Sign Jeffery. Draft another lineman and WR early.

PurpleMustReign · Post by **PurpleMustReign** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:49 pm

dead_poet wrote:Sign Boone. Sign Jeffery. Draft another lineman and WR early.

I think we should even look at trading our 1st round pick to someone for an established guard.

Post by **dead_poet** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:50 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:
I think we should even look at trading our 1st round pick to someone for an established guard.

Our first rounder? No way. Boone is an established vet. Or the Baltimore guard.

TSonn · Post by **TSonn** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:35 am

I think next year is our final year of the rebuild and the plan is to go offensive line in the first couple rounds of the draft. After the game tonight, Mariucci mentioned that he thinks the Vikings offensive game will be similar to the Cards offensive in 1-2 years. We just need to improve the line (through the draft or free agency), get a big (like tall) WR threat, and continue to gain experience like we did tonight.

losperros · Post by **losperros** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:38 am

PurpleMustReign wrote:I firmly believe this team is a decent, not even great, but decent OL away from being a legitimate contender. We need to overhaul the OL... Loadholt and Kalil better be the only starters brought back next season. Sullivan will not be good, Fusco is garbage, and Clemmings is terrible (not his fault, and I am willing to give him a second chance).
The OL played well tonight, but not well enough to win, especially on the last drive. Now we see what Teddy can do when he has time... even just a little. I am happy with Teddy's play tonight. However, I am not happy with the result.

I agree. The OL has been miserably bad for much of the season, especially with their porous pass protection. They played better tonight, though I still think there was a lot of room for improvement.

Trouble is I don't think just fixing the OL with better players is going to make this offense whole. In my view, there are a lot areas that need to be addressed and the OL is just one of them. I'm still not pleased with Norv on a number of levels. Bridgewater still has things to work on as well. Admittedly, good OL and better offensive coordinating would go a long ways at making the offense more potent and upgrading Teddy's game.

Boon · Post by **Boon** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:19 am

Oline played ok, if it wasn't for those two fumbles this would be a different outcome most likely

IrishViking · Post by **IrishViking** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:45 am

I think the biggest Oline issue is there is never a Pocket to step up into. It seems like even when the edges hold Teddy is getting pushed back by our own center.

Side note, I give him a hard time about it but I noticed Peterson made some key blocks in pass protection

Post by **dead_poet** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:47 am

IrishViking wrote:I think the biggest Oline issue is there is never a Pocket to step up into. It seems like even when the edges hold Teddy is getting pushed back by our own center.

He's been pressured from all over this season. But you're right, a lot of times it's been up the middle and many times that's been because of Fusco. Fusco has the third most hurries allowed in the league for guards this season.

Side note, I give him a hard time about it but I noticed Peterson made some key blocks in pass protection

He whiffed on at least one but I agree with you hit seemed to "hit" more often than he missed in this game which is at least something.

Post by **dead_poet** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:52 am

dead_poet wrote: Our first rounder? No way. Boone is an established vet. Or the Baltimore guard.

Kelechi Osemele is the guy I was trying to remember. He happens to be a LG, too. Priority signing IMO; I don't care about money invested in the offensive line already.

mansquatch · Post by **mansquatch** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:57 am

I agree in general with this thread. I know it is getting to be cliche, but how much better will our team be with Sullivan and Loadholt back? It almost feels like we have to take a mulligan on 20% of our passing downs because a rusher will come free straight at Teddy and then he has to move. We see too many times on offense where Teddy is running to get out of the pocket to throw the ball away because a Defensive Player came free.

I think the Fusco experiment at LG can be called a failure at this point. He was actually decent at RG before he got injured in 2014 but he has been really bad this year, not sure what the deal is this season, but it is not working. One thing I've noticed though in watching that side is that there seems to be a few plays each game where he and Kalil double up a guy and then another guy shoots the gap between Berger and Fusco that is now wide open. I'm not sure if that is Fusco making a mental error or if the line calls are bad? Could be some scheme issues at play on stuff like that, but it is hard to know.

Post by **dead_poet** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:03 am

mansquatch wrote:I agree in general with this thread. I know it is getting to be cliche, but how much better will our team be with Sullivan and Loadholt back? It almost feels like we have to take a mulligan on 20% of our passing downs because a rusher will come free straight at Teddy and then he has to move. We see too many times on offense where Teddy is running to get out of the pocket to throw the ball away because a Defensive Player came free.

It's beyond annoying and flat-out unacceptable.

I think the Fusco experiment at LG can be called a failure at this point. He was actually decent at RG before he got injured in 2014 but he has been really bad this year, not sure what the deal is this season, but it is not working.

From what I've read it's not nearly as easy as it sounds ("just flip to the other side"). I read a tweet from a former offensive lineman that said it's like writing with your right hand all your life then suddenly switching to your left and expect the quality to be the same writing at the same speed you normally do (meaning not slowing down and trying to be more careful). Apparently it's not an easy task.

One thing I've noticed though in watching that side is that there seems to be a few plays each game where he and Kalil double up a guy and then another guy shoots the gap between Berger and Fusco that is now wide open. I'm not sure if that is Fusco making a mental error or if the line calls are bad? Could be some scheme issues at play on stuff like that, but it is hard to know.

Stunts. For whatever reason they're awful at picking them up, particularly between Fusco/Berger but Harris has also been poor at picking those up, too. Clemmings is a bottom-five offensive tackle and while Kalil's play has picked up this season (last night's last play notwithstanding) he's still nothing more than an average starting LT. But at his current level he's not the complete liability he's been for most of his career, which I guess is a good thing.

mondry · Post by **mondry** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:40 pm

Boon wrote:Oline played ok, if it wasn't for those two fumbles this would be a different outcome most likely

3 fumbles (wright, then AD, then Teddy's strip sack) all in the red zone. We hung with these guys on their turf in prime time and should have gotten to OT if it wasn't for Norv.

I think the Fusco experiment at LG can be called a failure at this point. He was actually decent at RG before he got injured in 2014 but he has been really bad this year, not sure what the deal is this season, but it is not working.

From what I've read it's not nearly as easy as it sounds ("just flip to the other side"). I read a tweet from a former offensive lineman that said it's like writing with your right hand all your life then suddenly switching to your left and expect the quality to be the same writing at the same speed you normally do (meaning not slowing down and trying to be more careful). Apparently it's not an easy task.

Yeah, I imagine it's like anything else where you have tons of built up muscle memory doing something one way and then you flip and it's basically done the opposite way, even if it's the same thing you're starting from scratch due to how the brain works.

I think i'd be okay with him starting if they moved him back to RG but would definitely want like a 2nd round draft pick backing him up.

But you guys know me, I think the O-line is the biggest problem right now with norv right behind them. We saw last night where the line actually blocked one of their best games (for them anyway) and Norv stayed out of his own way just enough (when he wasn't calling horrible reverse type plays two weeks in a row and continually getting stuffed on first down runs that sucks out all of our momentum) for Teddy to throw for 335 yards against a top tier pass defense.

Bring in someone who can run an offense like NE's (think it's called the EP system or whatever) while spending a ton of resources on the O-line this off season and we'll be in the superbowl before you know it!

The Breeze · Post by **The Breeze** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:29 pm

Only 1 fumble was in the red zone, Wright's.

mondry · Post by **mondry** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:43 pm

The Breeze wrote:Only 1 fumble was in the red zone, Wright's.

Oops, they were on arizona's side of the field though at least right? or am I just not remembering this right at all lol.

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