Somebody needs to JACK MUSGRAVE UP!!!

[Hunter Morrow]

I don't know what the vikings did for the first 42 minutes of this game, but in 6 minutes they scored 2 touchdowns.

For the first 40 plus we called Worse Than Big 10, Bare Bones, Not Even Vanilla Because At Least Vanilla Is A Flavor offense. No draws, screens, play action or trick plays. Run, Run, 2 yard pass to Harvin, toss sweep to Harvin, Run, Run. Man. If you were to look at all the pass plays for more than 5 yards in this first 3 and a half quarters of this game you'd probably have less than 10, maybe not even 5.

What the hell? Then when we start executing a more aggressive style...

2 touchdowns in 6 minutes.

How can laymen Vikings fans be the ONLY ONES to notice this? The Wilfs need to grab these guys by the throat (I'd say balls, but I'd hate to make the Wilfs wait 40 minutes for the Vikings coaches to find them) and DEMAND MORE AGGRESSION.

[PurpleKoolaid]

How? The man has NO QB! And he expects the D to do their jobs, at least sometimes. I admit i dont like his play calling, but no one trusts him back there.

[Mothman]

I don't know what the vikings did for the first 42 minutes of this game, but in 6 minutes they scored 2 touchdowns.

For the first 40 plus we called Worse Than Big 10, Bare Bones, Not Even Vanilla Because At Least Vanilla Is A Flavor offense. No draws, screens, play action or trick plays. Run, Run, 2 yard pass to Harvin, toss sweep to Harvin, Run, Run. Man. If you were to look at all the pass plays for more than 5 yards in this first 3 and a half quarters of this game you'd probably have less than 10, maybe not even 5.

I think execution was the problem today, not aggression. They moved the ball very well on their first two drives so the strategy was working early. MIstakes ultimately submarined those drives and left the Vikes settling for FGs. On the first drive, they got all the way to the Indianapolis 30 and faced second and 2. Back to back penalties turned second and 2 into second and 17 and they weren't able to make up the yardage.

For most of the game, when Ponder dropped back and set to throw anything that took longer to develop than a 5-12 yard route, he almost immediately faced pressure and had to move. On a lot of those plays, it seemed like the pocket was collapsing and he had no choice but to move laterally rather than stepping up.

I don't know if the Vikes adjusted their protection late in the game or if the Colts were playing in a cover 2 shell or something but the Vikes were able to buy Ponder more time and it paid off.

[thatguy]

^This

[VikingLord]

I think the problem is, they have AD, they invested massively in AD, and they want to establish the run. And come hell or high water or 3-win seasons, they are going to establish the run. If it isn't working, then it's the players fault for not execting the scheme. This is, after all, the KOA Part 2, and it's going to work if the Vikes have the right players.

The 49ers are going to make tomato paste out of this offense next week. I don't think an offense has ever finished a full game with negative net yardage, but the Vikes might be up for that ignonimous honor next week if Musgrave doesn't tell Ponder to let it fly.

[S197]

I think execution was the problem today, not aggression. They moved the ball very well on their first two drives so the strategy was working early. MIstakes ultimately submarined those drives and left the Vikes settling for FGs. On the first drive, they got all the way to the Indianapolis 30 and faced second and 2. Back to back penalties turned second and 2 into second and 17 and they weren't able to make up the yardage.

For most of the game, when Ponder dropped back and set to throw anything that took longer to develop than a 5-12 yard route, he almost immediately faced pressure and had to move. On a lot of those plays, it seemed like the pocket was collapsing and he had no choice but to move laterally rather than stepping up.

I don't know if the Vikes adjusted their protection late in the game or if the Colts were playing in a cover 2 shell or something but the Vikes were able to buy Ponder more time and it paid off.

The protection wasn't great but it wasn't horrid either. Luck was running for his life but he was able to make plays. On many of those plays Ponder was going to his receiver whether he was open or not. If we use the first series as an example (as you did), Ponder was going to Harvin on that 7 yard loss no matter what. Later in that drive, he was going to throw it to Jenkins even though he was well covered and ran a 7 yard route (needed 12 for a first down).

I don't think it was a matter of protection so much late in the game as Ponder actually going through his progressions. The Rudolph TD (the second one) was a good example where he surveyed the field then found his TE over the middle.

[Mothman]

The protection wasn't great but it wasn't horrid either. Luck was running for his life but he was able to make plays. On many of those plays Ponder was going to his receiver whether he was open or not. If we use the first series as an example (as you did), Ponder was going to Harvin on that 7 yard loss no matter what. Later in that drive, he was going to throw it to Jenkins even though he was well covered and ran a 7 yard route (needed 12 for a first down).

I don't think it was a matter of protection so much late in the game as Ponder actually going through his progressions. The Rudolph TD (the second one) was a good example where he surveyed the field then found his TE over the middle.

Yes, but he had time to survey the field so protection was a factor. Earlier in the game, I didn't see him getting that time when they weren't throwing quick hitters.

Regarding the throw to Jenkins: was anybody else open? I don't have the game recorded and I can't watch it on NFL.com yet. Maybe Jenkins was the best available option to pick up the first down on that play or perhaps Ponder simply missed a better opportunity. I can't criticize him for that decision without more info.

[Crax]

Regarding the throw to Jenkins: was anybody else open? I don't have the game recorded and I can't watch it on NFL.com yet. Maybe Jenkins was the best available option to pick up the first down on that play or perhaps Ponder simply missed a better opportunity. I can't criticize him for that decision without more info.

Jenkins had 2 catches and a close touchdown as soon as percy went out. Do you think that Jenkins magically only got open when Harvin was out and the entire rest of the game he was covered so good it wasn't even worth a throw? I'd say it's more likely Ponder just had a different 1st read when Harvin wasn't there.

[Mothman]

Jenkins had 2 catches and a close touchdown as soon as percy went out. Do you think that Jenkins magically only got open when Harvin was out and the entire rest of the game he was covered so good it wasn't even worth a throw?

No. Did I say something to imply that? I'm not sure what point you're making.

Maybe he did... again, I can't criticize Ponder for that decision without more info. It's easy to say he should have thrown it to somebody who was open beyond the first down marker instead of to Jenkins but was anybody open beyond the first down marker? All I'm saying is I don't know. Maybe Ponder made a rash decision on that play and maybe he didn't. Let's find a replay and see if we can learn more.

[Crax]

No. Did I say something to imply that? I'm not sure what point you're making.

Ponder looks to be a one read QB. I'll try to look at the game film when NFL puts it up, but it sure seems like he has one guy he plans on throwing it to per play.

People bring up the WR's as reasons he doesn't throw it elsewhere, but Jenkins is fine and made catches but only had the chances when Harvin was out. Was jenkins targeted a single time before Harvin went out?

[S197]

Regarding the throw to Jenkins: was anybody else open? I don't have the game recorded and I can't watch it on NFL.com yet. Maybe Jenkins was the best available option to pick up the first down on that play or perhaps Ponder simply missed a better opportunity. I can't criticize him for that decision without more info.

No idea if anyone else was open but on that particular play, neither did Ponder. Snapped the ball, stared Jenkins down and threw the football. Maybe I can find a recording, I'll see if NFL Ticket will allow them (looks like it might be an option).

Anyway, it was just one play so I don't want to be overly critical about it, my main point is Ponder is still going to his first read very quickly especially early in games. When he settles down, he seems to scan the field better. Other than the jailbreak blitz where Johnson absolutely whiffed on his block resulting in the fumble, Ponder had adequate protection. He was flushed at times but Luck was the epitome of a QB under pressure and how to handle it. Ponder is elusive enough that he needs to learn that, use his athleticism a bit more to buy himself some time, set his feet and look at his 2nd and 3rd options. He does do it at times, I think he just needs to work on it and do it a lot more.

[Mothman]

No idea if anyone else was open but on that particular play, neither did Ponder. Snapped the ball, stared Jenkins down and threw the football. Maybe I can find a recording, I'll see if NFL Ticket will allow them (looks like it might be an option).

Anyway, it was just one play so I don't want to be overly critical about it, my main point is Ponder is still going to his first read very quickly especially early in games.

Well, as I said in the game thread, that's what he's supposed to do if his first read is open. That's why it's the first read.

Assuming Jenkins was Ponder's first read, Ponder didn't necessarily do anything wrong. If he threw to his first read on that play, maybe Musgrave made a bad play call or maybe Jenkins didn't run his route deep enough. Maybe they were running one of those stupid "hope" plays Childress used to run all the time and hoping Jenkins could break a tackle to pick up the first down.

When he settles down, he seems to scan the field better.

That may be true but he's not always supposed to scan the field... at least not after the snap. A lot of plays are designed for the QB to make a pre-snap read and get the ball out of his hands quickly.

Other than the jailbreak blitz where Johnson absolutely whiffed on his block resulting in the fumble, Ponder had adequate protection. He was flushed at times but Luck was the epitome of a QB under pressure and how to handle it.

Luck was flushed from the pocket by the Vikes defense and more than once, did just what Ponder did: run with the ball. The differece on some of those plays where he left the pocket and completed a pass might simply be that he was going against the Vikes pass defense and had plenty of room (and open receivers) in front of him. On most of the plays where Ponder ran, I seem to remember defenders closing on him pretty quickly and considering his receivers other than Harvin, he might not have been looking downfield at open receivers he could throw the ball to...

Ponder is elusive enough that he needs to learn that, use his athleticism a bit more to buy himself some time, set his feet and look at his 2nd and 3rd options. He does do it at times, I think he just needs to work on it and do it a lot more.

I think he will work on it but I also think we have to remember it's not always an option.

[Crax]

Well, as I said in the game thread, that's what he's supposed to do if his first read is open. That's why it's the first read.

Not sure I quite agree with that. If your first read is a short cross to harvin and your 2nd read is wide open 20 yards down the field, just because harvin is awesome doesn't always mean it's the correct read.

[Mothman]

Not sure I quite agree with that. If your first read is a short cross to harvin and your 2nd read is wide open 20 yards down the field, just because harvin is awesome doesn't always mean it's the correct read.

It might not always be the read that will yield the biggest gain but it's a progression for a reason and a lot depends on what the play is designed to do. We have to keep in mind that this stuff happens fast and a lot can depend on what the QB sees pre-snap. If the first read on a play is a short cross, unless the QB saw something very compelling pre-snap that would make him go 20 yards downfield to his second read, he's probably going to throw the slant because...

a.) It's his first read
b.) It's a quick-developing route and if he passes on it, the window to complete is closed before he comes back to it in his progression.

A QB isn't supposed to go through his progression post-snap on every play and then pick the best option. The progression is there for a reason and as we hear over and over, the Qb is supposed to have an internal clock and get the ball out of his hands relatively quickly.

[The Breeze]

I'm already sick of them handing it to Peterson rather than play action with him and swing passes to him. They don't know how to use him period. They focus on making him the focus of the offense and create only one way of giving him the ball. The defense is never fooled any more by any plays to AP. He'll wind up getting hurt again if this doesn't change.

The o-line was outplayed today. Ponder and his receivers had very little time for plays to develop and they didn't really open any holes for the running game.