Difference between two penalties

[thatguy]

I don't care if you guys think I'm being sour - I just want to ask you...what was the difference in the game? A field goal. What did Indy score on that drive with the two personal foul penalties? A field goal. Just saying...

Roughing the kicker =/= running into the kicker. And that's my problem with the whole game. Was the offense ineffective? Yes. Were there some dumb penalties (like Kalil's)? Yes. But the roughing the kicker penalty was the one that set me over the edge on these replacement refs.

[S197]

Whether it was a bad call or not, a game is won or lost based on 60 minutes of football. The Colts simply outplayed the Vikings today.

[thatguy]

I agree. I'm just pointing out that ignoring a call like that doesn't make any sense to me.

[Crax]

I tweeted at Mike Pereira about that play and if it should have been 5 or 15 right after it happened. Of course, he never responded on that one.
Go tweet @MikePereira and see if he'll answer you.

[FailedtoOpen]

Whether it was a bad call or not, a game is won or lost based on 60 minutes of football. The Colts simply outplayed the Vikings today.

Although I agree penalties had a huge impact on the game. I'm not blaming the refs, I'm blaming the team for committing to these penalties. I can't blame any one person on the team when the first downs get called back and the Vikings end up in a situation like 3rd and 20+ 3 times.

Whether or not the calls were good is subjective, but they did have a huge impact on the game.

[Crax]

Wasn't it a 4th and 4 on that though? I think the 5 yard may have given them a first as well.

[thatguy]

Wasn't it a 4th and 4 on that though? I think the 5 yard may have given them a first as well.

Yup. But at the same time, you're talking about moving the ball 5 yards compared to 15 past mid-field. Big difference.

[VikingLord]

I don't care if you guys think I'm being sour - I just want to ask you...what was the difference in the game? A field goal. What did Indy score on that drive with the two personal foul penalties? A field goal. Just saying...

Roughing the kicker =/= running into the kicker. And that's my problem with the whole game. Was the offense ineffective? Yes. Were there some dumb penalties (like Kalil's)? Yes. But the roughing the kicker penalty was the one that set me over the edge on these replacement refs.

Sendajo's helmet or pads rammed the plant knee of the kicker. Could have injured him quite severely had his foot still been in the turf with the player's weight on it.

I don't know whether it was roughing per se, but Sendajo can't afford to make contact in that situation at all, especially considering he came in unblocked. It was just not a heads-up play on his part at all.

[Demi]

Sendajo's helmet or pads rammed the plant knee of the kicker. Could have injured him quite severely had his foot still been in the turf with the player's weight on it.

I don't know whether it was roughing per se, but Sendajo can't afford to make contact in that situation at all, especially considering he came in unblocked. It was just not a heads-up play on his part at all.

Exactly. It wasn't incidental. He didn't trip into him, fall into him, roll into him, he wasn't blocked into him. He went to block the ball, missed, and ran into his plant leg...

[thatguy]

I don't know whether it was roughing per se, but Sendajo can't afford to make contact in that situation at all, especially considering he came in unblocked. It was just not a heads-up play on his part at all.

You're right, he should stop his momentum when not only he's moving full-force to get to the ball...but also without his feet being on the ground. That's why there are two different penalties. Roughing is for intentional hitting (not what he did). Running into the kicker is for incidental when you're going for the ball (what he did). PROFESSIONAL refs need to know the difference. If the NFL is gonna put that kind of garbage on the field, they need to at least pretend to know what is going on.

[thatguy]

Exactly. It wasn't incidental. He didn't trip into him, fall into him, roll into him, he wasn't blocked into him. He went to block the ball, missed, and ran into his plant leg...

That, by definition, is incidental contact. He was going for the ball and fell into him. Look it up in the rule book.

[Demi]

That, by definition, is incidental contact. He was going for the ball and fell into him. Look it up in the rule book.

RUNNING INTO KICKER
Article 6 No defensive player may run into or rough a kicker who kicks from behind his line unless such
contact:
(a) is incidental to and after he has touched the kick in flight;
(b) is caused by the kicker’s own motions;
(c) occurs during a quick kick;
(d) occurs during a kick or after a run behind the line;
(e) occurs after the kicker recovers a loose ball on the ground; or
(f) is caused because a defender is blocked into the kicker.

RUNNING, ROUGHING KICKER
Penalty: For running into the kicker: Loss of five yards from the previous spot, no automatic first
down. (This is not a personal foul). For roughing the kicker or holder, loss of 15 yards from the
previous spot. (This is a personal foul, and also disqualification if flagrant).
SUPPLEMENTAL NOTES
(1) Avoiding the kicker is a primary responsibility of defensive players if they do not touch the kick.
(2) Any contact with the kicker by a single defensive player who has not touched the kick is running into
the kicker.
(3) Any unnecessary roughness committed by defensive players is roughing the kicker. Severity of
contact and potential for injury are to be considered.
(4) When two defensive players are making a bona fide attempt to block a kick from scrimmage (punt,
drop kick, and/or placekick) and one of them runs into the kicker after the kick has left the kicker’s foot
at the same instant the second player blocks the kick, the foul for running into the kicker shall not be
enforced, unless in the judgment of the Referee, the player running into the kicker was clearly the
direct cause of the kick being blocked.
(5) If in the judgment of the Referee any of the above action is unnecessary roughness, the penalty for
roughing the kicker shall be enforced from the previous spot as a foul during a kick.

Running into the kicker
(special teams) On a kicking play where the defense fails to touch ("block") the kicked ball, the defense runs into the kicker/punter. If such an act occurs but is not intentional, this foul is assessed. If intentional, the personal foul of roughing the kicker is assessed instead (see above).

Roughing the kicker
(special teams) A defender, having missed an attempt to block a kick, tackles the kicker or otherwise runs into the kicker in a way that might injure the kicker or his vulnerable extended kicking leg. This protection is also extended to the holder of a place kick.

Basically there are three different calls
1) Incidental contact - just a tap often caused by the kicker's motion. No one could possibly get hurt in football, but a soccer player would flop to the ground screaming for his mommy.

2) Running into - The kicker is moved but not typically knocked down by the contact. The contact is usually to the kicking leg or the body. Only a very slight chance of serious injury.

3) Roughing - This is a personal foul that could cause serious injury. The kicker is almost always taken to the ground in a very rough manner. Contact to the non-kicking leg or helmet will almost always be called roughing.

Roughing the kicker is a similar penalty designed to protect kickers and punters. Officials call roughing-the-kicker penalties if a player runs into and knocks down the kicker/punter without touching the ball to block the kick.

Read more: Top 10 Football Safety Rules | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/way_5398664_top-foo ... z26fSi94XD

What does Roughing the Kicker Mean?

A penalty called when a defensive player makes significant contact with a kicker or punter who has just made a kick attempt. No contact is allowed with a kicker unless the kick has been tipped or blocked by the defense. The offense is awarded fifteen yards and an automatic first down.

He tried to block it, missed, no one touched ball, ran into kickers plant leg, kicker was knocked to the ground.

[VikingLord]

You're right, he should stop his momentum when not only he's moving full-force to get to the ball...but also without his feet being on the ground. That's why there are two different penalties. Roughing is for intentional hitting (not what he did). Running into the kicker is for incidental when you're going for the ball (what he did). PROFESSIONAL refs need to know the difference. If the NFL is gonna put that kind of garbage on the field, they need to at least pretend to know what is going on.

And if the Vikes need to rely on the judgment calls of refs in order to win games, they're in deeper trouble than we think.

Sendajo plays special teams. That's all he does. He needs to play them smarter. Go for the ball, but do not make contact. Period. If you can't block it without risking contact, don't block it.

[thatguy]

And if the Vikes need to rely on the judgment calls of refs in order to win games, they're in deeper trouble than we think.

Sendajo plays special teams. That's all he does. He needs to play them smarter. Go for the ball, but do not make contact. Period. If you can't block it without risking contact, don't block it.

They DIDN'T need to rely on them! They got penalized over 100 yards and still almost had that game. They needed them to make the right calls so that they weren't forced out of winning, but hey, if you see it that way, that's all you.

[thatguy]

@Demi:

Running into the kicker
(special teams) On a kicking play where the defense fails to touch ("block") the kicked ball, the defense runs into the kicker/punter. If such an act occurs but is not intentional, this foul is assessed. If intentional, the personal foul of roughing the kicker is assessed instead (see above).

How can you tell me that THIS does not apply here? They missed the block, it definitely wasn't intentional...so the running into the kicker penalty should be assessed. You're proving my point for me.