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Re: Vikings WRs and 2016 draft
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:35 pm
by Mothman
Mansquatch, thanks for the clarifications.
autobon7 wrote:[Short answer.......we do NOT need WR more than we need OL help. Beef up the OL and hope that TB will take the next step in regards to maturing.
It's not an either/or proposition. After all, there's more than one round of the draft.
They could take a WR in R1 and an OL in R2 or vice versa.
Re: Vikings WRs and 2016 draft
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:43 pm
by akvikingsfan
Our biggest need this offseason, as it has been for the past 2, is offensive line. There is no quality depth, and even if Sully and Loadholt had been good to go this year, I don't think it would have made a difference. The offensive line is pathetic. They need at least one new guard (I think Fusco is fine, but needs to be back on the right) and they need at least a backup tackle for when Loadholt gets injured again.
How bad is Yankey that he is on the practice squad? I can't believe that he is that much worse than Mike Harris or Zac Kerin?
The second biggest need for the team is a SS to start opposite of Smith. Watching Sendejo and Blanton is sickening. SS is the weakest aspect of the Defense. I think an upgrade there would add at least one more win.
I believe the draft needs are as follows:
Guard
Strong Safety
Offensive Tackle
BPA
Re: Vikings WRs and 2016 draft
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:15 pm
by dead_poet
akvikingsfan wrote:They need at least one new guard (I think Fusco is fine, but needs to be back on the right) and they need at least a backup tackle for when Loadholt gets injured again.
Harris should be that guy. He performed pretty well there last year for Phil.
The second biggest need for the team is a SS to start opposite of Smith. Watching Sendejo and Blanton is sickening. SS is the weakest aspect of the Defense. I think an upgrade there would add at least one more win.
We'll get to see some of Exum this week I think. It'd be pretty awesome if he could nail down that position going forward.
I believe the draft needs are as follows:
Guard
Strong Safety
Offensive Tackle
BPA
That's a pretty good list, though I'd put linebacker on there somewhere and receiver. With Hodges being traded, Greenway either retiring or in further decline next year (Cole is a FA), we're getting
really thin at LB behind Barr & Kendricks.
Corner will also be interesting with starters and #3 & #4 with Newman a year older and Robinson a free agent.
Re: Vikings WRs and 2016 draft
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:20 pm
by Mothman
akvikingsfan wrote:Our biggest need this offseason, as it has been for the past 2, is offensive line. There is no quality depth, and even if Sully and Loadholt had been good to go this year, I don't think it would have made a difference. The offensive line is pathetic. They need at least one new guard (I think Fusco is fine, but needs to be back on the right) and they need at least a backup tackle for when Loadholt gets injured again.
How bad is Yankey that he is on the practice squad? I can't believe that he is that much worse than Mike Harris or Zac Kerin?
The second biggest need for the team is a SS to start opposite of Smith. Watching Sendejo and Blanton is sickening. SS is the weakest aspect of the Defense. I think an upgrade there would add at least one more win.
Maybe but I find it interesting that so many people see that as a big need when the defense is ranked in the top 10 by any standard and holding opponents to an average of 17.6 points per game with Sendejo starting. Don't get me wrong, I think there's room for improvement on defense and I'd love to see that safety position upgraded but meanwhile, in contrast to what the defense as a whole is doing, the Vikings have the 31st-ranked passing offense in the NFL (down from their 2014 ranking of #28). The only receiver they've had go well over the 100 yard mark since Randy Moss did it in 2003 is Rice in 2009. Burleson edged a few yards over 1000 in 2004 and Berrian and Harvin edged up close to it in 2008 and 2011, respectively, but it's been a12 years since the Vikes had a big-time threat at WR for more than a season. Sometimes I wonder if it's been so long that Vikes fans have forgotten what it's like an.
We can debate which position represents the best opportunity for an upgrade and which position should be drafted but the team's #1 need should be crystal clear to everybody: an improved passing game.
Re: Vikings WRs and 2016 draft
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:31 pm
by akvikingsfan
Mothman wrote:
We can debate which position represents the best opportunity for an upgrade and which position should be drafted but the team's #1 need should be crystal clear to everybody: an improved passing game.
This part we agree on. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees on this. But the question is how do we get an improved passing game? I think it would be by upgrading the offensive line. Some think its the need for upgraded receivers. Others say we need an improvement from the quarterback. And a fourth group thinks a change at OC is needed.
In reality, to some degree it is probably a contamination of all four factors that needs to occur. The O-Line needs to improve, but can this happen through being healthy? Does it happen through developing our current talent? If it needs to happen in the draft, what round does it need to happen in?
The quarterback needs to improve. Will this happen through experience? Is Teddy suffering the well documented sophomore slump? Is this to blame due to not having protection from the line? Is it the receivers?
The receivers need to perform better. Is their lack of production due to the quarterback play? Is it due to their lack of talent? Do we spend a high pick on a receiver in order to address this?
Norv. Enough said?
I'm glad that I'm not the one having to decide the cause of the problems and the solution to fixing them. If I were Rick, in order for this offense to click better I would bring in a new OC (I know many people hate it, but I want a true west coast offense), I would draft several offensive line men, and I would leave the receivers alone (for the 2016 season). I believe with a new system and an improved line, the production for both Teddy and the receivers would go up.
However, if I were a gambler, my money would be on the Vikings using their first round pick on the defensive side of the ball.
Re: Vikings WRs and 2016 draft
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:40 pm
by mansquatch
Jim I agree on your assessment, I just think that improving the OL is far more likely to benefit the passing game right now than adding another WR. If anything we've seen what happens when you beef up your catchers without addressing your protectors, as that is precisely what they have done since drafting Kalil.
That last sentence is why I originally made the vomit comment. We've seen them draft Childs, Wright, Diggs, and CP84, plus sign Greg Jennings, release Greg Jennings, then trade for Mike Wallace. They also added Thielen and Charles Johnson. In the same time frame on Ol they've drafted Kalil and a bunch of late round guys whom I am too lazy to go find all the names for. They added zero in the FA market.
And here we are...
I do think the comments about LB depth are quite valid, however while I do think defensive depth is important, the OL needs some serious help right now.
Re: Vikings WRs and 2016 draft
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:38 pm
by PurpleKoolaid
Purple bruise wrote:
Who is DR that plays for the Broncos
DT.
Re: Vikings WRs and 2016 draft
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:54 pm
by losperros
Mothman wrote:Maybe but I find it interesting that so many people see that as a big need when the defense is ranked in the top 10 by any standard and holding opponents to an average of 17.6 points per game with Sendejo starting. Don't get me wrong, I think there's room for improvement on defense and I'd love to see that safety position upgraded but meanwhile, in contrast to what the defense as a whole is doing, the Vikings have the 31st-ranked passing offense in the NFL (down from their 2014 ranking of #28). The only receiver they've had go well over the 100 yard mark since Randy Moss did it in 2003 is Rice in 2009. Burleson edged a few yards over 1000 in 2004 and Berrian and Harvin edged up close to it in 2008 and 2011, respectively, but it's been a12 years since the Vikes had a big-time threat at WR for more than a season. Sometimes I wonder if it's been so long that Vikes fans have forgotten what it's like an.
We can debate which position represents the best opportunity for an upgrade and which position should be drafted but the team's #1 need should be crystal clear to everybody: an improved passing game.
Absolutely correct. How can it be debatable? Can you imagine what this present team would be like with a formidable passing game? We could be talking about a Championship team. Seriously, I feel the inconsistency of the passing game is holding the team back from what it could be.
I also agree that it can be upgraded at different positions. There are a lot of needs. In fact, pretty much every category of the passing game (from players to coaching) could use improvement.
Re: Vikings WRs and 2016 draft
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:55 pm
by PurpleKoolaid
I think (and hope) both Kyle and Wallace are gone next year. And I still wouldnt worry about a WR until later in the draft. We have Pruitt, Line, Elleson, for TEs. Asiata can be used as FB, or RB. I dont really trust Rick with 1st or 2nd round WR's. Or FA WR's. I sure hope we have someone to whisper in Rick's year this offseason that knows something about receivers. OL is the main issues. Starters and depth. There no doubt in my mind. The a SS. Maybe Exum has it. Even if he does, thats fine, he will make a good SS antil the draft pick is ready, and then the backup after that. Then find the bigger, good hands, possession WR. We will still have speed (even if CP84 is gone).
Re: Vikings WRs and 2016 draft
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:07 pm
by Pondering Her Percy
PurpleKoolaid wrote:I think (and hope) both Kyle and Wallace are gone next year. And I still wouldnt worry about a WR until later in the draft. We have Pruitt, Line, Elleson, for TEs. Asiata can be used as FB, or RB. I dont really trust Rick with 1st or 2nd round WR's. Or FA WR's. I sure hope we have someone to whisper in Rick's year this offseason that knows something about receivers. OL is the main issues. Starters and depth. There no doubt in my mind. The a SS. Maybe Exum has it. Even if he does, thats fine, he will make a good SS antil the draft pick is ready, and then the backup after that. Then find the bigger, good hands, possession WR. We will still have speed (even if CP84 is gone).
Line at TE?? Where does that even come from?? Kyle has shown well the past few games and is easily Teddy's favorite target in the red zone.
There is no way we should get rid of Rudy right now. He's finally healthy and is starting to really come on. I'm pretty sure he leads the Vikings in targets. And I just don't see any logic behind Line at TE
And you also didn't trust Spielman drafting a QB but he ends up drafting Teddy right?
Re: Vikings WRs and 2016 draft
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:23 pm
by PurpleKoolaid
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Line at TE?? Where does that even come from?? Kyle has shown well the past few games and is easily Teddy's favorite target in the red zone.
There is no way we should get rid of Rudy right now. He's finally healthy and is starting to really come on. I'm pretty sure he leads the Vikings in targets. And I just don't see any logic behind Line at TE
And you also didn't trust Spielman drafting a QB but he ends up drafting Teddy right?
My point is Line has played TE. Too bad Ford gone,but I think if Kyle left, and we got value for him now, Pruitt could step right up. Tired of Kyle being a no show or hurt (untill the last few games). And I dont trust Rick with WRs or QB's. Maybe 5 years from now I will have changed my mind about Rick and QBs. Same with the early / FA wrs. I love crow.
Re: Vikings WRs and 2016 draft
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:52 pm
by mosscarter
here is how we get a capable passing game, we get a capable qb and bridgewater is not it. he'll play another full season and go the way of ponder and be gone like the wind. his statistics are beyond horrific; sometimes i wonder what you people are looking at. anyone can complete 65 percent of their passes when they are between 10 and 12 yards EVERY GAME. he has no deep capacity whatsoever and in many ways he is a total clone of ponder. remember the high hopes of ponder? teddy has been a complete joke as an nfl qb this season and anyone who thinks otherwise must be watching another team. his arm, contrary to many, is weak. he flips the ball side arm. he doesn't stand in there and fire the ball like a man. there is a reason we had to trade back into the first round to get him, and in all honesty at the time i was excited. i'm not now. this kid is one of the worst starting qb's in the entire nfl.
Re: Vikings WRs and 2016 draft
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:37 pm
by VikingPaul73
Someone made a good point in another thread, how can you judge Teddy when he has no time to throw (which is the main reason I wanted to sign a good FA OL in the offseason even as a stopgap...to keep Teddy upright , help him develop, and get a decent picture of what you have this year in Teddy B)
I think the same applies for WR.....how can they judge what they have when they run most of the time and when they do pass its with an unproven QB behind an absolutely brutal OL??
Keep Wallace for 2016 even if he's overpaid, and go OL, OL next year!!!
Re: Vikings WRs and 2016 draft
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:39 pm
by jackal
Short answer.......we do NOT need WR more than we need OL help. Beef up the OL and hope that TB will take the next step in regards to maturing.
Re: Vikings WRs and 2016 draft
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:44 pm
by PurpleKoolaid
mosscarter wrote:here is how we get a capable passing game, we get a capable qb and bridgewater is not it. he'll play another full season and go the way of ponder and be gone like the wind. his statistics are beyond horrific; sometimes i wonder what you people are looking at. anyone can complete 65 percent of their passes when they are between 10 and 12 yards EVERY GAME. he has no deep capacity whatsoever and in many ways he is a total clone of ponder. remember the high hopes of ponder? teddy has been a complete joke as an nfl qb this season and anyone who thinks otherwise must be watching another team. his arm, contrary to many, is weak. he flips the ball side arm. he doesn't stand in there and fire the ball like a man. there is a reason we had to trade back into the first round to get him, and in all honesty at the time i was excited. i'm not now. this kid is one of the worst starting qb's in the entire nfl.
How the heck do I block you? Or foe you. Im sick of the same crap EVERY SINGLE post Everyone. No matter what the post is about. WE GET, for the love of god just stop with the exact same post.