Sick of the moral victories

[Raptorman]

True, it was one game. True, it was a loss. Based on that simplification, however, would you say the SF game and the Denver game are on "equal footing" so-to-speak? If the only "take-away" is that it's a road loss, then it seems to me that the SF game would be the same "indicator" as the Denver loss. I know (or at least I think) that's not what you mean. To me they are worlds apart (at least in terms of the Vikings' performance.) My concern was (and still is) not whether or not the Denver game was better (I believe it clearly was. So I'm in agreement with Zimmer on this one. I believe if they play that well they will win road games. Not all teams are as good as Denver, so a similar performance would probably beat 75% (if not more) of the teams in the NFL). My concern is which game was the "fluke"?

You can certainly question how good Denver actually is, but consider this:

In the past three years Denver has went 22-2 at home (Regular Season) and they were undefeated at home last year in 2014. It clearly is NOT an easy venue to get a win. So other than the (understandable) frustration with yet another road loss, I'm not seeing how this is anything other than a positive step forward. A journey of 1000 miles begins with but a single step...

I would like to point out that the average score in those wins in Denver is 35.3 to 20.3. A 15 point per game difference. I think our guys did pretty well.

[Mothman]

True, it was one game. True, it was a loss. Based on that simplification, however, would you say the SF game and the Denver game are on "equal footing" so-to-speak? If the only "take-away" is that it's a road loss, then it seems to me that the SF game would be the same "indicator" as the Denver loss. I know (or at least I think) that's not what you mean. To me they are worlds apart (at least in terms of the Vikings' performance.) My concern was (and still is) not whether or not the Denver game was better (I believe it clearly was. So I'm in agreement with Zimmer on this one. I believe if they play that well they will win road games. Not all teams are as good as Denver, so a similar performance would probably beat 75% (if not more) of the teams in the NFL). My concern is which game was the "fluke"?

That's my concern as well and i'm looking for more consistency rather than such dramatically different performances.

You can certainly question how good Denver actually is, but consider this:

In the past three years Denver has went 22-2 at home (Regular Season) and they were undefeated at home last year in 2014. It clearly is NOT an easy venue to get a win. So other than the (understandable) frustration with yet another road loss, I'm not seeing how this is anything other than a positive step forward. A journey of 1000 miles begins with but a single step...

I don't see it as a positive step forward because they lost a winnable game. To me, it's not much different than the loss at Detroit last year. That was another winnable game, against a team that ended up with 11 wins and had one of the league's best defenses. They came up short then and they came up short again on Sunday. I will feel like they've taken a step forward when they win a road game like that again. It's been years.

That's just my measure though. It may seem harsh and others measure progress and success differently. That's fine.

I'm sure I ruffled some feathers here in the board today and to anyone who felt that way, I apologize. I rarely find much solace in such moral victories for the Vikes and it's hard for me to express just how tired I am of Vikings mediocrity, how ready I am for them to be really good again for an extended period of time. Sometimes I wonder if a sense of complacency is settling in for this franchise and many of it's fans, a feeling that "good enough" is good enough because it's better than that bad season we had with that bad coach coach W or Z (fill in those blanks, folks, there are enough to choose from now).

Maybe it's as simple as this: every so often, I start to think the team is turning the corner, that they're going to win a game like this. I thought that last weekend and I ended up disappointed. Again. I'm tired of that feeling. The Vikes need to come out of the bye and kick some ####.

[Mothman]

I would like to point out that the average score in those wins in Denver is 35.3 to 20.3. A 15 point per game difference. I think our guys did pretty well.

Different seasons. The Broncos offense hasn't looked as potent this year. Denver was averaging about 24.5 points per game in 2015 before they played the Vikes (24.25 now). They had 2 defensive TDs prior to the Vikes game too so their offense was actually averaging 20 points per game.

Viewed that way, our defense gave up 3 more than average.

That's the opposite of "fun with stats".

[Raptorman]

Different seasons. The Broncos offense hasn't looked as potent this year. Denver was averaging about 24.5 points per game in 2015 before they played the Vikes (24.25 now). They had 2 defensive TDs prior to the Vikes game too so their offense was actually averaging 20 points per game.

Viewed that way, our defense gave up 3 more than average.

That's the opposite of "fun with stats".

In the same token then, should we discount the fact that the Vikings haven't won on the road the last two years because it's a "different season"?

[Mothman]

In the same token then, should we discount the fact that the Vikings haven't won on the road the last two years because it's a "different season"?

I don't think it's quite the same thing ...

... and the Vikings won two road games last year. Please, don't take that way from them!

[Just Me]

I don't think it's quite the same thing ...

... and the Vikings won two road games last year. Please, don't take that way from them!

Here's a good stat. In every road game I have personally attended attended in the last 3 years, the Vikings have won! (I went to the St Louis Game last year ). So I'm willing to go to every away game if others take up a collection to pay for airfare, hotel, and game tickets for the remaining 6 away game this year (BTW - The Super Bowl counts as an away game).

[Mothman]

Here's a good stat. In every road game I have personally attended attended in the last 3 years, the Vikings have won! (I went to the St Louis Game last year ). So I'm willing to go to every away game if others take up a collection to pay for airfare, hotel, and game tickets for the remaining 6 away game this year (BTW - The Super Bowl counts as an away game).

Hmmm... it sounds like we need to put together a crowdfunding effort that will get you to more games!

[Mothman]

From the Star Tribune:

http://www.startribune.com/vikings-regr ... 330795341/

The Vikings are encouraged by Sunday’s game. But Mike Zimmer is leery of the line between encouraged and satisfied. So he has tread carefully since Sunday’s final gun.

“We’re never going to have moral victories around here,” the Vikings coach said Monday.

Zimmer was asked to assess the .500 record at the bye.

“Well, I like this football team,” he said. “I think they work real hard. We have to get better, there’s no question. I think the teams that we’ve played, three out of the four were playoff teams last year. The last team we played was 23-2 or something at home over the last four years. But I’m not happy with where we are at, no.

“I think we have a chance to be a good football team. And if we ever do put it all together, we can be a really good football team. But that’s a lot of ifs, and injuries and there are all kinds of things. But there’s a lot of football left to be played.”

I sure like Mike Zimmer.

This is from another Strib article but the quote appears to be from the same press conference:

With his road record as a head coach standing at 2-8 (as opposed to 7-3 at home), Zimmer was asked what needs to happen to get over the hump on the road.

“We have to execute better,” he said. “Sometimes with this team, it seems like when we get in big games everyone wants to make a play instead of, ‘Hey, look here, this is my job. I’m going to do my job.’ So that’s just something I’m going to have to continue to figure out.

“But it’s not like they spit the bit. They want to do good. They want to impress. They want to be with all the elite teams in the league. I think every time we get in these situations and we’re able to teach and we’re able to coach and we’re able to fight back like we did in that ballgame [Sunday], I think these are all great learning experiences with a young football team. And at some point in time, we’re going to get over the hump.”

[Just Me]

Sometimes I wonder if a sense of complacency is settling in for this franchise and many of it's fans, a feeling that "good enough" is good enough because it's better than that bad season we had with that bad coach coach W or Z (fill in those blanks, folks, there are enough to choose from now).

Complacency? No. Encouraged? Yes.

Is what the team did on Sunday "good enough?" Clearly not, so I'm not satisfied (in the long term) with that performance. In the short term, It is ahead of where we were last year. If they were to turn in that performance next year, I would share your frustration. Also, even if the fans are "complacent" that doesn't concern me as much as if the Vikings players and coaches are "complacent." Look at Bridgewater's presser after the game. I don't get the impression he thought it was a "good enough" effort. He made the statement that they (the Vikings) would "tighten things up" (or words to that effect) and would win the next game like this one. I am waiting to see if that was "empty talk" or he meant it, but I really got the impression he meant what he said.

Maybe it's as simple as this: every so often, I start to think the team is turning the corner, that they're going to win a game like this. I thought that last weekend and I ended up disappointed. Again. I'm tired of that feeling. The Vikes need to come out of the bye and kick some ####.

I get that. I think the biggest difference between the feelings you and I have over this game is expectations. Despite the pre-season hype, I didn't see the Vikings making serious noise this year. I think we'll squeak into the playoffs as a Wild Card and (of course anything can happen and I'll cheer for them, but...) be out of it after their 1st or 2nd game. TBH that is the level I see them performing at right now. What I saw in Denver was a team that fit that expectation. Am I happy with this as a "destination?" No. But as a necessary "waypoint" on the way to a SB trophy, I am encouraged by it. I was far more disappointed by the SF loss, as that is a team that will NOT be in the playoffs and took a step back from last year. Which team is the "real" 2015 Vikings? That remains to be seen, but I assure you, I am not complacent with their performance (or lack thereof).

Lastly, I agree. The need to kick some serious azimuth after the bye to convince me the team that played in Denver is the "real" 2015 Vikings...

**Edit - I started posting about "encouraged" before I saw your post about Zimmer. It seems he mirrors my feelings perfectly. I too, like him as a coach. (He still needs to get to the upper side of .500 though...

[Mothman]

Complacency? No. Encouraged? Yes.

Is what the team did on Sunday "good enough?" Clearly not, so I'm not satisfied (in the long term) with that performance. In the short term, It is ahead of where we were last year. If they were to turn in that performance next year, I would share your frustration. Also, even if the fans are "complacent" that doesn't concern me as much as if the Vikings players and coaches are "complacent." Look at Bridgewater's presser after the game. I don't get the impression he thought it was a "good enough" effort. He made the statement that they (the Vikings) would "tighten things up" (or words to that effect) and would win the next game like this one. I am waiting to see if that was "empty talk" or he meant it, but I really got the impression he meant what he said.

I didn't see his presser but I find that reaction encouraging.

Speaking of encouraging, I realize that's primarily what players and fans are feeling, not complacency. I'm just having a hard time with the Vikings status quo, if you know what i mean.

I get that. I think the biggest difference between the feelings you and I have over this game is expectations. Despite the pre-season hype, I didn't see the Vikings making serious noise this year. I think we'll squeak into the playoffs as a Wild Card and (of course anything can happen and I'll cheer for them, but...) be out of it after their 1st or 2nd game. TBH that is the level I see them performing at right now. What I saw in Denver was a team that fit that expectation. Am I happy with this as a "destination?" No. But as a necessary "waypoint" on the way to a SB trophy, I am encouraged by it. I was far more disappointed by the SF loss, as that is a team that will NOT be in the playoffs and took a step back from last year. Which team is the "real" 2015 Vikings? That remains to be seen, but I assure you, I am not complacent with their performance (or lack thereof).

That's good.

I really didn't have very high expectations for them going into this year and my expectations still aren't that high. However, you're probably right on target when you say the difference in our reactions is due to expectations because I had just seen Denver play over the previous two weeks and while I knew they'd be tough, they looked vulnerable to me and I thought the Vikes could beat them in a close game. In other words, for this game, I expected (perhaps unrealistically) a Vikes win.

I keep looking for them to get over that hump Zimmer mentioned and they can't quite do it yet.

Lastly, I agree. The need to kick some serious azimuth after the bye to convince me the team that played in Denver is the "real" 2015 Vikings...

**Edit - I started posting about "encouraged" before I saw your post about Zimmer. It seems he mirrors my feelings perfectly. I too, like him as a coach. (He still needs to get to the upper side of .500 though...

Well said. I like Zimmer's take on this as well.

Tom Powers wrote an interesting column about this game and the reactions to it too:

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_289 ... ps-rightly

[Just Me]

I'm a little less encouraged by some of the (other) players responses to the loss. I'm not saying that they *are* complacent, but one could be concerned that they might seem to be "satisfied" with their performance. I do like Harrison Smith's response to their record:

The Vikings are 2-2.

"It's average, just as bad as it is good," said safety Harrison Smith. "Like I said, we have a lot of guys that want to win on this team. As long as we build and get better, there's a lot of football left."

(My emphasis on his words). That is the attitude I'd like to see from all the football players, but at least one of our young stars is setting the example to follow. On a slightly unrelated note: Does anyone know why Smith wasn't in the game when Denver ripped off their long TD run? (or was he in there & I just missed him?)

[Mothman]

I'm a little less encouraged by some of the (other) players responses to the loss. I'm not saying that they *are* complacent, but one could be concerned that they might seem to be "satisfied" with their performance. I do like Harrison Smith's response to their record:
(My emphasis on his words). That is the attitude I'd like to see from all the football players, but at least one of our young stars is setting the example to follow. On a slightly unrelated note: Does anyone know why Smith wasn't in the game when Denver ripped off their long TD run? (or was he in there & I just missed him?)

I don't know but if he wasn't in the game, that's a good question. Maybe he had an equipment issue or something.

Thanks for posting that quote. Smith's attitude reflects what I want to see from the players too, if not outright anger that they're letting winnable games get away from them.

[Just Me]

Never Mind - I went back and re-checked the tape. Smith was on the opposite side of the field (from the direction Denver ran). You can briefly see him at the bottom of the screen trailing the play, but he never really had a chance to make a play on that one...

[IrishViking]

Never Mind - I wend back and re-checked the tape. Smith was on the opposite side of the field (from the direction Denver ran). You can briefly see him at the bottom of the screen trailing the play, but he never really had a chance to make a play on that one...

Cut the bum

[Just Me]

Cut the bum