Vikings Message Board.Com

yezzir wrote:Joe Webb is a QB, whether he's with us or not. He's got game.

To be honest I don't get the whole, "move him to WR!!" He may be serviceable there, but not as much to warrant people's opinions.

In my opionion, he should be a QB.

Exactly. Yes he's athletic but let's get real, this is the NFL, most guys are athletic freaks at most positions. Where there usually aren't super athletic freaks is at QB so that's the only place Webb really has an advantage at. If he scrambles out of the back field there's usually just a D-lineman he can outrun and then perhaps a line backer and the play can break down. If he's a WR or safety his only really strong attribute becomes a wash with most NFL caliber CB's or WR's.

As a QB he's a huge mismatch defenses have to account for.

Frazier says #Vikings are leaning toward working Joe Webb EXCLUSIVELY at QB next season. Let him focus on one spot. Interesting.

Tom Pelissero on Twitter

What a waste of time.

The sooner these clowns are out of here the better.

Demi wrote:What a waste of time.

The sooner these clowns are out of here the better.

Why is that a waste of time? Would you rather them spend the time on making him a WR, which may never pan out? That would seem like a waste of time. Keeping him at QB is the wisest choice for the organization: backup plan in case Ponder doesn't cut it, and it will give him a higher value down the road if the team wants to trade him. Yes, Webb is talented and needs to be on the field but he needs to play a position that he's most comfortable with to maximize his potential and that spot is QB. I don't see how this is a poor decision.

HornedMessiah wrote: Why is that a waste of time? Would you rather them spend the time on making him a WR, which may never pan out? That would seem like a waste of time. Keeping him at QB is the wisest choice for the organization: backup plan in case Ponder doesn't cut it, and it will give him a higher value down the road if the team wants to trade him. Yes, Webb is talented and needs to be on the field but he needs to play a position that he's most comfortable with to maximize his potential and that spot is QB. I don't see how this is a poor decision.

The Vikes drafted him as a WR. They had a need at WR. It made sense to keep him there and develop him there, as well as get him on the field on kickoff returns.

The only reason he moved to QB was so Chilly could ship Sage IMHO. I don't think Chilly liked Sage much at all. I don't think he wanted him in the first place, and after Sage yapped to the press about a few things Chilly took advantage of the situation and shipped him. Since he had Favre at the time and Jackson behind Favre there didn't seem to be too much risk in filling that void with Webb.

Let's face it - the Vikes drafted an athlete with potential when they selected Webb. He really didn't have a fit on the team, but as a 6th-rounder he was a high-reward, relatively low-risk choice that probably could have been slotted into any number of roles and coached to see if his potential could translate to the NFL. Chilly chose QB for him, and he's remained there. He's had some success there. But for as many bright spots as he's had, I think it's pretty clear that when NFL defenses prepare specifically for him he's a lot less successful. I'd have a hard time buying the argument that he'll improve much on that given more time and coaching, but I suppose the Vikes could do worse at backup QB.

The other thing I'll say about Webb is he's durable. Ponder and Jackson strike me as china dolls. Jackson certainly so, but Ponder as well. Webb at least stays on the field. I have a feeling we're going to see a lot more of him this season as well.

A guy like Webb is valuable to a team with a creative coach and scheme. I think Webb is fine as a back up QB, provided we ever get an actual starting QB. If/when the Vikings get a franchise QB, Webb should see the field some, he is a great athlete. But neither Chilly or Frazier are creative enough to use him on offense. If the Vikings dont draft or acquire any other QBs this off season, Webb will play a fair amount at QB, Ponder is hurt all the time.

purple guy wrote:Ponder is hurt all the time.

I think that stems some from having no place to throw due to an absence of receivers that can create separation coupled with having about 2-3 seconds before being crushed behind a questionable offensive line (especially pass protection). It sickens me how often Tom Brady is literally standing in the pocket as he patiently waits for someone to get open while our QBs are routinely mauled nearly instantly. Brady is good, but let's not discount having the #3 rated O-line (according to PFF). He benefits greatly from having all day to throw. I'm pretty certain if Ponder got roughly the same amount of time, he'd not only be a better passer, but injured less. Heck, Roethesburger has been injured quite a bit in his career (including last season) yet nobody is calling him injury prone. He plays through injuries. Ponder has already as well. I still think the jury is out on Ponder (and Webb).

I'm disappointed Frazier has made this decision, but it's good one has been made and he can focus on one position now.

dead_poet wrote: I think that stems some from having no place to throw due to an absence of receivers that can create separation coupled with having about 2-3 seconds before being crushed behind a questionable offensive line (especially pass protection). It sickens me how often Tom Brady is literally standing in the pocket as he patiently waits for someone to get open while our QBs are routinely mauled nearly instantly. Brady is good, but let's not discount having the #3 rated O-line (according to PFF). He benefits greatly from having all day to throw. I'm pretty certain if Ponder got roughly the same amount of time, he'd not only be a better passer, but injured less. Heck, Roethesburger has been injured quite a bit in his career (including last season) yet nobody is calling him injury prone. He plays through injuries. Ponder has already as well. I still think the jury is out on Ponder (and Webb).

I'm disappointed Frazier has made this decision, but it's good one has been made and he can focus on one position now.

Our OL isnt as bad as we fans make it out to be, even by the reports posted (by you I believe) by those evaluating OLs. Now, they certainly arent elite or in the Pats neighborhood, but they arent as horrid as Ponder supporters make it out to be, IMO. And I agree, the jury is still out on Ponder, however, using the games I have watched to date, Im not excited at all. And to me, I dont care if Big Ben, Peyton, Eli, or any other QB is injury prone or not, only care about the QB under center for the Vikings, and in a season he didnt even start every game, he missed some time due to injury, and Id bet he will miss some time this season as well. Its not just that he takes hits, but he doesnt take them well or try lessen the impact of the hit at times.

purple guy wrote:Our OL isnt as bad as we fans make it out to be

You've watched the games. In regards to pass protection...it's not good (run game can be decent at times). And when you combine that with receivers that struggle to get open it's not a great recipe for a successful quarterback.

only care about the QB under center for the Vikings, and in a season he didnt even start every game

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he played/started every game after McNabb was benched.

Its not just that he takes hits, but he doesnt take them well or try lessen the impact of the hit at times.

Did you see the play that he got flattened that caused his hip injury? I suppose he could've thrown the ball away earlier, but there was no way to lessen the huge impact he sustained by being flattened by a 300+-lb defensive lineman. I think even this there's too small of a sample size to really make the case that he's injury-prone or can't take hits. He took a lot last season and kept playing.

HornedMessiah wrote: Why is that a waste of time? Would you rather them spend the time on making him a WR, which may never pan out? That would seem like a waste of time. Keeping him at QB is the wisest choice for the organization: backup plan in case Ponder doesn't cut it, and it will give him a higher value down the road if the team wants to trade him. Yes, Webb is talented and needs to be on the field but he needs to play a position that he's most comfortable with to maximize his potential and that spot is QB. I don't see how this is a poor decision.

Yep.
In example, Moving a QB to wide reciever is not like moving a shortstop to 1st base. WR's acquire knowledge and moves overtime. Whereas as shortstops have the skill to adaquetly switch to pretty much any other position excluding pitcher and catcher.

Joe Webb is a QB. And he'll be a QB in the NFL for a long time without any major injury.

yezzir wrote: Yep.
In example, Moving a QB to wide reciever is not like moving a shortstop to 1st base. WR's acquire knowledge and moves overtime. Whereas as shortstops have the skill to adaquetly switch to pretty much any other position excluding pitcher and catcher.

Joe Webb is a QB. And he'll be a QB in the NFL for a long time without any major injury.

He played as a WR in college. This isn't moving anyone anywhere. He played the majority of a season at the position one year in college. Other QBs have been moved to WR and had some success. It's been done. He was drafted to be a WR because of his physical attributes. He'll never, ever, be a competent productive winning starter at the QB position. And wasting any more time on him there stunts the growth of any other QB we end up bringing to the team. Disagree? Fine, it's obvious we do. In 5 years we'll see who was right, if it even takes near that long.

If Webb is our backup plan for Ponder, we have no backup plan.

I think that stems some from

And I think it stems from being an undersized ding bat that can barely read a defense and is quick to run. The question was there from before he was even drafted about health issues and the dreaded "injury prone". But I guess it's going to take a Rice like 4 years before that label can be applied.

What a mess.

VikingLord wrote:Let's face it - the Vikes drafted an athlete with potential when they selected Webb. He really didn't have a fit on the team, but as a 6th-rounder he was a high-reward, relatively low-risk choice that probably could have been slotted into any number of roles and coached to see if his potential could translate to the NFL. Chilly chose QB for him, and he's remained there. He's had some success there. But for as many bright spots as he's had, I think it's pretty clear that when NFL defenses prepare specifically for him he's a lot less successful. I'd have a hard time buying the argument that he'll improve much on that given more time and coaching, but I suppose the Vikes could do worse at backup QB.

Why is that argument difficult to buy? I don't know what Webb's ceiling is as a pro QB but doesn't it make sense that he might be more successful if his focus isn't divided between learning two positions, especially when one of them is arguably the most difficult NFL position to learn?

dead_poet wrote:Did you see the play that he got flattened that caused his hip injury? I suppose he could've thrown the ball away earlier, but there was no way to lessen the huge impact he sustained by being flattened by a 300+-lb defensive lineman. I think even this there's too small of a sample size to really make the case that he's injury-prone or can't take hits. He took a lot last season and kept playing.

I definitely think it's too early to be labeling Ponder as injury-prone or referring to him as a "china doll". The hit that caused his injury would have injured a lot of players. He tried to play through but kept aggravating it and had to come off the field. It happens...

I don't know what Webb's ceiling is as a pro QB

A lot of people who are paid a lot of money decided it wasn't high enough to pick before hundreds of other players. And when someone finally did decide to bring him in, it wasn't as a QB. And what has he does since then? Ran around, and threw some inaccurate passes.

It happens...

To stupid quarterbacks that continue to take unnecessary hits. Hopefully he can pull his head out of wherever it is, because half the time he looks completely clueless. And the other half he's refusing to just throw the ball away. Or slide. And when you're not exactly an amazing physical specimen to begin with, no wonder he kept getting hurt.

Demi wrote: A lot of people who are paid a lot of money decided it wasn't high enough to pick before hundreds of other players. And when someone finally did decide to bring him in, it wasn't as a QB. And what has he does since then? Ran around, and threw some inaccurate passes.

He was the 199th pick in the draft so technically, he didn't quite make the cut to be chosen after "hundreds" of other players but it was close!

Seriously, I understand what you're saying but a lot of people who are paid a lot of money decided his potential as a WR wasn't high enough to pick him any higher either. That argument cuts both ways and it's pretty flimsy anyway since there have been both QBs and WRs drafted in the 6th round who have been successful in the NFL. Those well-paid people you mentioned don't always get it right, as first round busts, undrafted free agents who become stars, etc. clearly illustrate.

A player's draft position and what a team intended when they drafted him has some significance but let's not pretend for a second that it represents some sort of "final word" about that player because we all know it doesn't.

Just to be clear, I'm not a big Joe Webb advocate, whether he's playing QB or WR. He's had a few impressive moments as a backup and some considerably less than impressive moments as well. I mentioned his ceiling as an NFL QB because, regardless of where he was drafted, it IS unknown. That doesn't mean I think it's high (I don't), just that I think it makes sense to commit him to one position, let him focus and see what he can do. If he can't do much more than what he's done already, it might be time to just say "Here's a tremendous athlete without a position" and let him go.

Jim

Demi wrote: A lot of people who are paid a lot of money decided it wasn't high enough to pick before hundreds of other players.

Tom Brady was picked in the same exact spot, with the 199th pick. John Unitas was drafted in round 9.