Vikings - 49ers postgame

[StumpHunter]

I am ready to move on from Cook, he can not stay healthy and never played a full season

Looked at his contract yesterday I think he's locked in for the next two years.

There are no guarantees left on his salary and we can easily cut him or force a restructure at the threat of cutting him after this season. It is likely he would take a restructure too, with his age and injury history.

He has over 9 million in signing bonus due spread out over 3 years, which is likely what you saw. However, when looking at NFL contracts the signing bonuses are just sunk costs that you really shouldn't consider unless they are so massive you can't absorb them in the current year (which is not the case with Cook who we would save 2 million cutting even with his signing bonus). The player has already received that bonus and it is going to count against the cap at some point regardless.

[J. Kapp 11]

Looked at his contract yesterday I think he's locked in for the next two years.

There are no guarantees left on his salary and we can easily cut him or force a restructure at the threat of cutting him after this season. It is likely he would take a restructure too, with his age and injury history.

He has over 9 million in signing bonus due spread out over 3 years, which is likely what you saw. However, when looking at NFL contracts the signing bonuses are just sunk costs that you really shouldn't consider unless they are so massive you can't absorb them in the current year (which is not the case with Cook who we would save 2 million cutting even with his signing bonus). The player has already received that bonus and it is going to count against the cap at some point regardless.

Isn’t this an interesting conversation.

Not gonna say “I told you so,” but … ah, to hell with it. I told you so. (Not you specifically, StumpHunter, but all of you).

If you guys recall, I said if I were the GM, I wouldn’t pay a running back more than $4 million a year. You guys eviscerated me. Strung me up by my testicles to a thorny tree. Obliterated me. I was most adamant that a running back shouldn’t have a huge deal that is also long-term.

And why did I say these things? Because a) running backs are the easiest position on offense to replace, and b) running backs can’t stay healthy.

Now here we are … a dinged-up Dalvin Cook ran less than effectively for several weeks because of a bad ankle, then suffered a torn labrum against San Francisco. As someone who suffered 8 shoulder dislocations because of a torn labrum, I can tell you … he’s effectively done for the season. He might play again, but he won’t be himself again until he has surgery to repair it and then goes through a tough rehab. This injury requires surgery, period. If he plays with it and gets hit the wrong way, he will suffer another dislocation. This isn’t healable soft tissue. The labrum can’t regenerate. It has to be surgically repaired. So he’s done. And we’ve gotten less than half of his salary’s value this season.

Let’s also look at some other highly paid running backs around the league.

Christian McCaffrey, has barely played and is out for the season.
Derrick Henry, out for the season.
Alvin Kamara, has missed most of the season, trying to come back.
Saquon Barkley, has barely played.
Nick Chubb, has missed several games.
Ezekiel Elliott, started fast but has been slowed with injuries to the point of rumors that Jerry Jones wants him to sit.

Guys, as much as we love Dalvin Cook — and I am at the top of that list — paying big bucks on long-term deals to running backs is simply a bad investment. We may disagree on the dollar amount, but i don’t see how anyone can disagree with the philosophy.

[Maelstrom88]

Looked at his contract yesterday I think he's locked in for the next two years.

There are no guarantees left on his salary and we can easily cut him or force a restructure at the threat of cutting him after this season. It is likely he would take a restructure too, with his age and injury history.

He has over 9 million in signing bonus due spread out over 3 years, which is likely what you saw. However, when looking at NFL contracts the signing bonuses are just sunk costs that you really shouldn't consider unless they are so massive you can't absorb them in the current year (which is not the case with Cook who we would save 2 million cutting even with his signing bonus). The player has already received that bonus and it is going to count against the cap at some point regardless.

I just looked at his numbers on over the cap and it looked like cutting him in the next two years would leave as much or more dead cap than what it created. I don't know the details other than that. I'm a simple man lol. Thanks for explaining though. I definitely feel like they should restructure him to save money and put in some incentives. He just can't stay healthy.

https://overthecap.com/player/dalvin-cook/5627/

[J. Kapp 11]

I just heard … Ezra Cleveland had the highest PFF grade — not just among the Vikings, and not just among linemen — in the entire NFL last week.

The entire NFL.

Can that be right? Does anybody have a PFF account who can verify?

[StumpHunter]

I just heard … Ezra Cleveland had the highest PFF grade — not just among the Vikings, and not just among linemen — in the entire NFL last week.

The entire NFL.

Can that be right? Does anybody have a PFF account who can verify?

It is true. 93.5 overall grade.

It should be noted that is primarily because of his run blocking, his pass blocking was just good at 77.8. It should also be noted that our RBs totaled 67 yards on the day and averaged 3.7 yards per attempt on 18 attempts. Kind of a screwy grade if you ask me.

[StumpHunter]

There are no guarantees left on his salary and we can easily cut him or force a restructure at the threat of cutting him after this season. It is likely he would take a restructure too, with his age and injury history.

He has over 9 million in signing bonus due spread out over 3 years, which is likely what you saw. However, when looking at NFL contracts the signing bonuses are just sunk costs that you really shouldn't consider unless they are so massive you can't absorb them in the current year (which is not the case with Cook who we would save 2 million cutting even with his signing bonus). The player has already received that bonus and it is going to count against the cap at some point regardless.

Isn’t this an interesting conversation.

Not gonna say “I told you so,” but … ah, to hell with it. I told you so. (Not you specifically, StumpHunter, but all of you).

If you guys recall, I said if I were the GM, I wouldn’t pay a running back more than $4 million a year. You guys eviscerated me. Strung me up by my testicles to a thorny tree. Obliterated me. I was most adamant that a running back shouldn’t have a huge deal that is also long-term.

And why did I say these things? Because a) running backs are the easiest position on offense to replace, and b) running backs can’t stay healthy.

Now here we are … a dinged-up Dalvin Cook ran less than effectively for several weeks because of a bad ankle, then suffered a torn labrum against San Francisco. As someone who suffered 8 shoulder dislocations because of a torn labrum, I can tell you … he’s effectively done for the season. He might play again, but he won’t be himself again until he has surgery to repair it and then goes through a tough rehab. This injury requires surgery, period. If he plays with it and gets hit the wrong way, he will suffer another dislocation. This isn’t healable soft tissue. The labrum can’t regenerate. It has to be surgically repaired. So he’s done. And we’ve gotten less than half of his salary’s value this season.

Let’s also look at some other highly paid running backs around the league.

Christian McCaffrey, has barely played and is out for the season.
Derrick Henry, out for the season.
Alvin Kamara, has missed most of the season, trying to come back.
Saquon Barkley, has barely played.
Nick Chubb, has missed several games.
Ezekiel Elliott, started fast but has been slowed with injuries to the point of rumors that Jerry Jones wants him to sit.

Guys, as much as we love Dalvin Cook — and I am at the top of that list — paying big bucks on long-term deals to running backs is simply a bad investment. We may disagree on the dollar amount, but i don’t see how anyone can disagree with the philosophy.

Interesting, I see the impact McCaffrey, Henry and Kamara being out is having on their teams and come to the opposite conclusion.

The Panthers, Titans and Saints would likely be struggling right now if they had spent that money elsewhere, but at least in the Titans case Henry might be back to save their season.

5 million per season extra spent on a position outside of RB isn't going to have the same impact on a team great RB could have, so even though there is a lot of risk spending that extra 5 million per season that the RB you are paying won't be available all 17 games or in the playoffs.

And if you are wondering where that 5 million is coming from, Cook, if he were cut today would have cost the Vikings about 9 million per season on his new deal. 9 minus the 4 you mentioned is 5 million, or 2 Weatherlys to put it in context.

[J. Kapp 11]

I just heard … Ezra Cleveland had the highest PFF grade — not just among the Vikings, and not just among linemen — in the entire NFL last week.

The entire NFL.

Can that be right? Does anybody have a PFF account who can verify?

It is true. 93.5 overall grade.

It should be noted that is primarily because of his run blocking, his pass blocking was just good at 77.8. It should also be noted that our RBs totaled 67 yards on the day and averaged 3.7 yards per attempt on 18 attempts. Kind of a screwy grade if you ask me.

That really IS weird. I mean, our running game reeked Sunday.

I used to think PFF was a joke, that the guys doing the analyzing were regular Joe’s, and they just hired enough of them to grade every player and every play. But they’ve got enough years and notoriety and high-level backing at this point that I see them as legit. They’ve likely got people analyzing who know what they’re doing.

Amazingly, we may have 3/5 of a passable offensive line.

[VikingLord]

Cousins was SO off yesterday. His accuracy was as bad as I've ever seen from a pro QB.

Did you watch McNabb with the Vikings, he had some great bounce passes? Cam Newton was 5/21 for sub 100 yards with 2 ints for like a 6 rating yesterday. I'm not giving cousins credit for being bad, but there is still much worse floating out there. Newton was a top draft pick as well

My point is, that's not usual for Cousins. It stood out, especially based on his more recent performances.

You're right that there are a lot of other examples of QBs who had or have some accuracy issues. There were/are generally known for that problem. Cousins was among that group last Sunday for sure.

[CharVike]

Newton was never an accurate passer. Call it what it is. His arm is fine. He completed 59% of his passes when he was MVP. That sucks. Bridgewater blows. The minute that team faces a team that can play football his true colors will come out. They have a dam good team around him. They should win it all. You actually think Heineke is taking the WFT anywhere? Plus the WFT can play defense. That D is miles better than ours. They also play in a joke division. Put the Packers in there and nobody would be talking about any of those teams. They would be us. Don't forget Dak. They just lost to a joke at home. Of course there D sucks and eventually that will do them in.

Newton is a former MVP who brought his team to the SB and I don't really care if my QB throws for yards and TDs or runs for them. They both count the same. Like I said, better than Kirk could ever dream of being at one point in his career. Not anymore.

Bridgewater's damn good team has him getting pressured the 6th most of any QB in the league and sacked the 6th most. Aren't you the one always claiming it all starts at the Oline? Despite that, his team is 6-5, he has beaten the Cowboys and the Chargers (two teams we are 1-1 against). This with 2 of his top 3 receiving threats out for most of the season.

Washington's great defense is currently giving up the 2nd most points per drive of any D in the NFL, 4th most yards. Great take.

Those two QBs aren't taking either of those teams anywhere and neither is Cousins which is the whole point. The difference being both are costing their teams about 4 million.

I know what Newton did and he deserves credit. That SB team could also play some defense. If they had our 2020 defense they wouldn't have been in a SB. To make the SB you need a dam good team that gets hot. I give the guy credit and he is a great marketer for leading the team to a SB. That's not easy to do. Guys who will be HOFers only have one. Like Brees. Rodgers has one but he still has some years left. The guy that just beat us Jimmy G has one. He's still not done. You can get there but first you better play some defense and don't forget special teams either. Goff made it. He's not doing a dam thing this year. They could win as many games with a punter playing QB. He's making good money also. And yes it all starts with the OL. That's ground level football. Yes you can get an average QB cheap and make the SB. That has been proven. We are stuck overpaying because Spielman used FA. That's the worse spot to get a player. If the player gets interest you will over pay.

[chicagopurple]

For a number of years now, the only real curiosity I have had about my dear Vikings and their fans has been, how low must we fall before we acknowledge that we are not a contender and blow it up ? I cant believe it is taking so many years! From the GM down to the conditioning coach…its all gotta go. We have a pedigree of futility and failure . We are not a center of excellence.

[J. Kapp 11]

For a number of years now, the only real curiosity I have had about my dear Vikings and their fans has been, how low must we fall before we acknowledge that we are not a contender and blow it up ? I cant believe it is taking so many years! From the GM down to the conditioning coach…its all gotta go. We have a pedigree of futility and failure . We are not a center of excellence.

Except that ownership doesn't see it as futility and failure. They correlate those characteristics to teams like the Lions or the Jets, whose fans would be doing backflips with an 8-9 season instead of their typical 2-4 wins.

The Vikings, on the other hand, have this annoying, constant gravitational pull toward .500. They're not bad enough to go 2-15, so ownership sees hope. Because ...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Rick Spielman routinely dupes the Wilfs. He's got them eating out of the palm of his hand.

[vikeinmontana]

For a number of years now, the only real curiosity I have had about my dear Vikings and their fans has been, how low must we fall before we acknowledge that we are not a contender and blow it up ? I cant believe it is taking so many years! From the GM down to the conditioning coach…its all gotta go. We have a pedigree of futility and failure . We are not a center of excellence.

Except that ownership doesn't see it as futility and failure. They correlate those characteristics to teams like the Lions or the Jets, whose fans would be doing backflips with an 8-9 season instead of their typical 2-4 wins.

The Vikings, on the other hand, have this annoying, constant gravitational pull toward .500. They're not bad enough to go 2-15, so ownership sees hope. Because ...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Rick Spielman routinely dupes the Wilfs. He's got them eating out of the palm of his hand.

Yep. I always thought our biggest curse has always been being JUST good enough. Playoffs every other year type of success. Hell, even this season we've been in every game. A 7+ point lead in every game. Probably sneak in the playoffs. And then nothing will change.

[IIsweet]

Isn't it concerning that we are the only team in the NFL to have had a 7+ point lead in every game this year, and yet we are under .500 ???

[StumpHunter]

Isn't it concerning that we are the only team in the NFL to have had a 7+ point lead in every game this year, and yet we are under .500 ???

That is a misleading stat. The Vikings have been very good on their opening scripted drive and then fallen off late, meaning they are up 7-0 in a lot of their games.

The only games they have been up 7 at any point in the 2nd half they are 5-1 in.

[808vikingsfan]

Isn't it concerning that we are the only team in the NFL to have had a 7+ point lead in every game this year, and yet we are under .500 ???

That is a misleading stat. The Vikings have been very good on their opening scripted drive and then fallen off late, meaning they are up 7-0 in a lot of their games.

The only games they have been up 7 at any point in the 2nd half they are 5-1 in.

Plus it never helps when the offense can’t score tds in the 2nd half.