Championship Roster

[CharVike]

Many don't appreciate Cousins. He'll be gone soon. Then we'll be back to the QB merry go round. Are you longing for Teddy or TJacker or Ponder or Webb or I'll stop there. I could go on and create a much longer list. Think about that group of stiffs. Why would anybody want to relive that. Speilman flushed that 2nd pick down the toilet. We needed OL help. Should have picked another, Kendrick Green C/G, to go with the two he picked. Bring them in and get the competition started. Light a fire under Bradbury. For our team to do the transition correctly deal Cousins. He's worth what Stafford was and IMO more. There are a bunch of teams that need a QB. That would give some fans what the want. The next major project at QB which we have now and the QB merry go round spinning full speed ahead again. Great plan. We will have a new stadium before we make the Super Bowl with that plan.

Yes, many people don't appreciate paying a QB like he is Aaron Rodgers only for him to have same impact on games as Aaron Brooks.

I don't understand what people are so afraid of when they talk about moving on from Cousins. The Vikings have made the playoffs (as a WC team) once since Cousins got here. Why would we miss that? Heck, the Vikings have only had 1 QB in the history of the franchise who didn't make the playoffs in at least 1 season they started day 1 as the starter. Clearly it isn't hard to find a QB capable of that.

Fans in KC were saying this exact same crap before they moved on from Alex Smith. Same with fans in San Diego. "We could do a lot worse". It isn't the next TJack or Cousins. It is the next TJack or Mahomes or Rodgers or Herbert or Wilson or someone who will actually give us hope. Why would anyone not want that?

Cousins is the best since Fran. Last year no QB was taking our POS defense to the Super Bowl. That don't happen. This year people are already talking about what a great roster this is. We don't have one OL player that can be considered great. They are closer to bums than great. It's garbage. You act like QBs are free. We have CAP that Speilman is just looking at. Get a guy to help our OL. Get a shut down CB. Yes a stiff like Cuozzo lead our team to the playoffs in 1970. That was one of the greatest defenses in the history of the NFL. They also scored points. You overlook that. As a 10 year old I watched Cuozzo in that playoff game and even at my age I knew he was a bum. If we had that D today we would walk to the Super Bowl. General Bob Lee another bum I guess he guided the PPE defense to the playoffs. Or was that Norm the stiff Snead? You don't remember how great the PPE defense was. Don't say the QB did it. It had nothing to do with the QB. That was just a body taking the snap. The fans in Philly are saying we have the next get one. The fans from the Saints and Giants are saying the same thing. The Jets just traded their next great one to the Panthers. Use them for the example. Mahomes is a great young QB. How did he look in the Super Bowl with a garbage OL? I hope that pin head OC they have keeps banging Mahomes into the line on 3rd and short. You can only get some many concussions. Eventually it's game over. No more playing for you. The NFL don't need a 20 something zombie walking around. I'm not afraid of moving on from Cousins. Do it now lets get the QB trolley rolling again. I even wanted us to pick Mac Jones this year when he fell on our lap. All other posters said the guy sucks. And yes that probably will be the case. Trade Cousins for a Stafford ++ deal. That wouldn't bother me one bit. But I will always respect Cousins. He has shown he can throw the ball under heat. He's the best since Fran IMO. I've seen all of them. He's not a Wilson, who was carried to a Super Bowl, who throws his average OL under the bus when he sucks. Cousins never did that and his OL sucks big time. Start the QB trolley now.

[CharVike]

Yes, many people don't appreciate paying a QB like he is Aaron Rodgers only for him to have same impact on games as Aaron Brooks.

I don't understand what people are so afraid of when they talk about moving on from Cousins. The Vikings have made the playoffs (as a WC team) once since Cousins got here. Why would we miss that? Heck, the Vikings have only had 1 QB in the history of the franchise who didn't make the playoffs in at least 1 season they started day 1 as the starter. Clearly it isn't hard to find a QB capable of that.

Fans in KC were saying this exact same crap before they moved on from Alex Smith. Same with fans in San Diego. "We could do a lot worse". It isn't the next TJack or Cousins. It is the next TJack or Mahomes or Rodgers or Herbert or Wilson or someone who will actually give us hope. Why would anyone not want that?

Cousins is the best since Fran. Last year no QB was taking our POS defense to the Super Bowl. That don't happen. This year people are already talking about what a great roster this is. We don't have one OL player that can be considered great. They are closer to bums than great. It's garbage. You act like QBs are free. We have CAP that Speilman is just looking at. Get a guy to help our OL. Get a shut down CB. Yes a stiff like Cuozzo lead our team to the playoffs in 1970. That was one of the greatest defenses in the history of the NFL. They also scored points. You overlook that. As a 10 year old I watched Cuozzo in that playoff game and even at my age I knew he was a bum. If we had that D today we would walk to the Super Bowl. General Bob Lee another bum I guess he guided the PPE defense to the playoffs. Or was that Norm the stiff Snead? You don't remember how great the PPE defense was. Don't say the QB did it. It had nothing to do with the QB. That was just a body taking the snap. The fans in Philly are saying we have the next get one. The fans from the Saints and Giants are saying the same thing. The Jets just traded their next great one to the Panthers. Use them for the example. Mahomes is a great young QB. How did he look in the Super Bowl with a garbage OL? I hope that pin head OC they have keeps banging Mahomes into the line on 3rd and short. You can only get some many concussions. Eventually it's game over. No more playing for you. The NFL don't need a 20 something zombie walking around. I'm not afraid of moving on from Cousins. Do it now lets get the QB trolley rolling again. I even wanted us to pick Mac Jones this year when he fell on our lap. All other posters said the guy sucks. And yes that probably will be the case. Trade Cousins for a Stafford ++ deal. That wouldn't bother me one bit. But I will always respect Cousins. He has shown he can throw the ball under heat. He's the best since Fran IMO. I've seen all of them. He's not a Wilson, who was carried to a Super Bowl, who throws his average OL under the bus when he sucks. Cousins never did that and his OL sucks big time. Start the QB trolley now.

Sorry for the disrespect of Cuozzo. He was Dr Gary Cuozzo. The NFL was only part time for him when he lead the PPE to the playoffs. Maybe if he tried the NFL as full time employment he would have been more than a bum. Maybe Cousins should try NFL part time. Just show up for one full practice and the game. It worked great for Dr Cuozzo.

[808vikingsfan]

This is where I'm at. No matter how good this team can be, to get deep in the playoffs, you need a QB that can elevate the team when needed. Kirk is not that guy. No matter how good the OL will be, no matter how good the defense might be, Kirk will be Kirk.

Question for those that believe in Cousins. What if the Vikings barely make it over .500 and are one and done in the playoffs this year. He has a "championship roster", rookie QB in CHI, new QB in DET, maybe no Rodgers in GB. Will you still believe in him? Shouldn't this be his "prove it" year for you folks? This is his 10th year in the league. He's 51-51 as a starter. Only one double digit win season. Stafford has 2. At some point, don't you folks have to stop blaming everyone else?

QB is one player out of 53 on a football team. Kirk will do his job very well. If others do their jobs very well we will have success. Simple as that.

I don't think it's that simple. The QB touches the ball 100% of the time on offense. He has an impact on almost every offensive play. He's not just 1 out of 53. He's the #1 out of 53.

[808vikingsfan]

This is where I'm at. No matter how good this team can be, to get deep in the playoffs, you need a QB that can elevate the team when needed. Kirk is not that guy. No matter how good the OL will be, no matter how good the defense might be, Kirk will be Kirk.

Which means what exactly?

What, he'll throw an INT? He'll fumble? He'll what, fail to will a receiver to look the ball all the way in and have it bounce off his hands when it was otherwise a perfect pass that would have produced a first down?

What about the nice deep throw he put where only Thielen could catch it in overtime to in against the Saints in the playoffs? Was that "Kirk being Kirk"? If so, I'll take more of that.

I still look back at 2019 vs SEA. If the Vikings win, they would have been in the driver's seat for the #2 seed. 4th qtr, 3 minutes to go. Down 4. Vikings with the ball. What does Cousins do? 3 really bad passes causing a turnover on downs. That's who he is IMO.

Question for those that believe in Cousins. What if the Vikings barely make it over .500 and are one and done in the playoffs this year. He has a "championship roster", rookie QB in CHI, new QB in DET, maybe no Rodgers in GB. Will you still believe in him? Shouldn't this be his "prove it" year for you folks? This is his 10th year in the league. He's 51-51 as a starter. Only one double digit win season. Stafford has 2. At some point, don't you folks have to stop blaming everyone else?

What if? Are you saying if the Vikings are barely over .500 that's all on Cousins? No contribution to that result from the defense, special teams, coaches, refs, or other offensive players?

No. I'm asking why wouldn't you start looking at Cousins for blame if they barely make the playoffs? Some think the Vikings have a roster that can win the SB this year.

I don't "believe" in Cousins per se, but I also don't believe how eager many seem to be to blame him for every failure. He's not Rodgers or Mahomes or Brady or Wilson. So what? Plenty of guys without those names have gotten to and won Superbowls. It's a team game and the team needs to play well to get to and win a Superbowl. That's how guys like Brad Johnson have rings. Nobody can tell me that Kirk Cousins doesn't compare favorably to Brad Johnson, or that if Cousins just plays at this certain level the rest of the team can suck and they'll still be in contention.

Let's just give this "Cousins sucks" stuff a rest. Please. He's not the greatest QB to ever play the game. But he's not the worst either. The only thing that matters, literally the ONLY thing that matters when it comes to evaluating Cousins, is "is he good enough". The answer to that is yes, and nobody, not even the most statistically jaded person, can deny that if the Vikings as a team play well enough, they can win a Superbowl with Cousins at QB.

I never said he sucks. IMO, he limits the team because of what he lacks. He lacks a mental strength, he's inconsistent. He lacks ability to extend plays. He lacks pocket awareness. He's slow in making decisions. I don't doubt he's a good passer. He's made some really nice throws. Is he good enough to lead a team to the SB? Not from what he's shown over the past 3 years. Can he be good enough? If he improves where he lacks, I believe he can. I just think he's reached his ceiling. Time to move on if the Vikings want to win a SB.

[CharVike]

QB is one player out of 53 on a football team. Kirk will do his job very well. If others do their jobs very well we will have success. Simple as that.

I don't think it's that simple. The QB touches the ball 100% of the time on offense. He has an impact on almost every offensive play. He's not just 1 out of 53. He's the #1 out of 53.

Ok the OL and defense don't matter? Tell that to Brady see what he says. He's a stick in the mud QB. Jim McMahon is a winner and took the 85 Bears to the Super Bowl. It had nothing to do with one of the most dominating defenses that ever stepped on an NFL filed. Had nothing to do with Walter sweetness Payton running through defenses. Of course Jim Mc was involved with 100 % of the snaps when he did play. It's hard handing the ball off. Shows what a D and OL can do right there. Defense is a big part of making the Super Bowl:
But there is one statistic common to every champion since 2013 – a stinginess on defense. All ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. They did not allow points. That’s been the one statistic universal to the success of all Super Bowl champions – 47 of the 54 winners ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. Of the 108 teams that have reached the Super Bowl, 89 of them ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense.
The above shows defense matters. With our D last year no QB that ever played the game was taking that hunk of junk anywhere.

[VikingsVictorious]

QB is one player out of 53 on a football team. Kirk will do his job very well. If others do their jobs very well we will have success. Simple as that.

I don't think it's that simple. The QB touches the ball 100% of the time on offense. He has an impact on almost every offensive play. He's not just 1 out of 53. He's the #1 out of 53.

The center touches the ball on every play. Where does he rank out of the 53. Sure as far as positional importance goes the QB is more important than most. However a teams best player doesn't need to be their QB as proven by many championship teams.

[VikingsVictorious]

Which means what exactly?

What, he'll throw an INT? He'll fumble? He'll what, fail to will a receiver to look the ball all the way in and have it bounce off his hands when it was otherwise a perfect pass that would have produced a first down?

What about the nice deep throw he put where only Thielen could catch it in overtime to in against the Saints in the playoffs? Was that "Kirk being Kirk"? If so, I'll take more of that.

I still look back at 2019 vs SEA. If the Vikings win, they would have been in the driver's seat for the #2 seed. 4th qtr, 3 minutes to go. Down 4. Vikings with the ball. What does Cousins do? 3 really bad passes causing a turnover on downs. That's who he is IMO.

What if? Are you saying if the Vikings are barely over .500 that's all on Cousins? No contribution to that result from the defense, special teams, coaches, refs, or other offensive players?

No. I'm asking why wouldn't you start looking at Cousins for blame if they barely make the playoffs? Some think the Vikings have a roster that can win the SB this year.

I don't "believe" in Cousins per se, but I also don't believe how eager many seem to be to blame him for every failure. He's not Rodgers or Mahomes or Brady or Wilson. So what? Plenty of guys without those names have gotten to and won Superbowls. It's a team game and the team needs to play well to get to and win a Superbowl. That's how guys like Brad Johnson have rings. Nobody can tell me that Kirk Cousins doesn't compare favorably to Brad Johnson, or that if Cousins just plays at this certain level the rest of the team can suck and they'll still be in contention.

Let's just give this "Cousins sucks" stuff a rest. Please. He's not the greatest QB to ever play the game. But he's not the worst either. The only thing that matters, literally the ONLY thing that matters when it comes to evaluating Cousins, is "is he good enough". The answer to that is yes, and nobody, not even the most statistically jaded person, can deny that if the Vikings as a team play well enough, they can win a Superbowl with Cousins at QB.

I never said he sucks. IMO, he limits the team because of what he lacks. He lacks a mental strength, he's inconsistent. He lacks ability to extend plays. He lacks pocket awareness. He's slow in making decisions. I don't doubt he's a good passer. He's made some really nice throws. Is he good enough to lead a team to the SB? Not from what he's shown over the past 3 years. Can he be good enough? If he improves where he lacks, I believe he can. I just think he's reached his ceiling. Time to move on if the Vikings want to win a SB.

I disagree with you on everything you say he lacks. He's plenty good to lead us to the championship if other players also play well.

[VikingsVictorious]

I don't think it's that simple. The QB touches the ball 100% of the time on offense. He has an impact on almost every offensive play. He's not just 1 out of 53. He's the #1 out of 53.

Ok the OL and defense don't matter? Tell that to Brady see what he says. He's a stick in the mud QB. Jim McMahon is a winner and took the 85 Bears to the Super Bowl. It had nothing to do with one of the most dominating defenses that ever stepped on an NFL filed. Had nothing to do with Walter sweetness Payton running through defenses. Of course Jim Mc was involved with 100 % of the snaps when he did play. It's hard handing the ball off. Shows what a D and OL can do right there. Defense is a big part of making the Super Bowl:
But there is one statistic common to every champion since 2013 – a stinginess on defense. All ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. They did not allow points. That’s been the one statistic universal to the success of all Super Bowl champions – 47 of the 54 winners ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. Of the 108 teams that have reached the Super Bowl, 89 of them ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense.
The above shows defense matters. With our D last year no QB that ever played the game was taking that hunk of junk anywhere.

Superior post CharVike,
Our D should easily be top 10 this year so we can check that box. Now if our offense is as good or even better than last year all that's left to do is plan the parade.

[fiestavike]

Well hell.

Another Cousins debate.

[StumpHunter]

Ok the OL and defense don't matter? Tell that to Brady see what he says. He's a stick in the mud QB. Jim McMahon is a winner and took the 85 Bears to the Super Bowl. It had nothing to do with one of the most dominating defenses that ever stepped on an NFL filed. Had nothing to do with Walter sweetness Payton running through defenses. Of course Jim Mc was involved with 100 % of the snaps when he did play. It's hard handing the ball off. Shows what a D and OL can do right there. Defense is a big part of making the Super Bowl:
But there is one statistic common to every champion since 2013 – a stinginess on defense. All ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. They did not allow points. That’s been the one statistic universal to the success of all Super Bowl champions – 47 of the 54 winners ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. Of the 108 teams that have reached the Super Bowl, 89 of them ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense.
The above shows defense matters. With our D last year no QB that ever played the game was taking that hunk of junk anywhere.

Superior post CharVike,
Our D should easily be top 10 this year so we can check that box. Now if our offense is as good or even better than last year all that's left to do is plan the parade.

Only 1 team with a lesser scoring offense than the Vikings won a game in the playoffs last year, and that team didn't make it out of the divisional round.

[StumpHunter]

I don't think it's that simple. The QB touches the ball 100% of the time on offense. He has an impact on almost every offensive play. He's not just 1 out of 53. He's the #1 out of 53.

Ok the OL and defense don't matter? Tell that to Brady see what he says. He's a stick in the mud QB. Jim McMahon is a winner and took the 85 Bears to the Super Bowl. It had nothing to do with one of the most dominating defenses that ever stepped on an NFL filed. Had nothing to do with Walter sweetness Payton running through defenses. Of course Jim Mc was involved with 100 % of the snaps when he did play. It's hard handing the ball off. Shows what a D and OL can do right there. Defense is a big part of making the Super Bowl:
But there is one statistic common to every champion since 2013 – a stinginess on defense. All ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. They did not allow points. That’s been the one statistic universal to the success of all Super Bowl champions – 47 of the 54 winners ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. Of the 108 teams that have reached the Super Bowl, 89 of them ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense.
The above shows defense matters.

Average Scoring Offense Past 15 seasons: 8.53
Average Scoring Defense Past 15 seasons: 8.87

Worst scoring offense to win it all: 24th
Worst scoring defense to win it all: 25th

No team with an offense outside the top 5 in scoring has won the SB since 2015.

Both offense and defense are important, one a little more than the other, and defensive scoring often is helped by a better offense and not the other way around, but they are important.

With our D last year no QB that ever played the game was taking that hunk of junk anywhere.

Tennessee's defense was just as bad as ours and they went to the playoffs in a harder conference. With our run game and WRs that team should have won more games. However, you are right that 2020 team wasn't going to win a SB even with a QB like Mahomes. I don't think people are claiming that is the case, but are pointing to previous years where we have had a championship caliber defense, and how we haven't even come close.

You go around the NFL and look at message boards of teams and what those fans feel about the QB and the importance of the QB to winning, and only fans of teams who have a lesser QB argue they don't matter that much. It reminds me of people with a weight problem who argue being thin and healthy isn't important because they struggle with their weight. Deep down they know it is better to not be overweight, but it makes them feel better to say otherwise.

The Vikings have a weight problem, and some fans want to pretend big is beautiful.

[CharVike]

Which means what exactly?

What, he'll throw an INT? He'll fumble? He'll what, fail to will a receiver to look the ball all the way in and have it bounce off his hands when it was otherwise a perfect pass that would have produced a first down?

What about the nice deep throw he put where only Thielen could catch it in overtime to in against the Saints in the playoffs? Was that "Kirk being Kirk"? If so, I'll take more of that.

I still look back at 2019 vs SEA. If the Vikings win, they would have been in the driver's seat for the #2 seed. 4th qtr, 3 minutes to go. Down 4. Vikings with the ball. What does Cousins do? 3 really bad passes causing a turnover on downs. That's who he is IMO.

What if? Are you saying if the Vikings are barely over .500 that's all on Cousins? No contribution to that result from the defense, special teams, coaches, refs, or other offensive players?

No. I'm asking why wouldn't you start looking at Cousins for blame if they barely make the playoffs? Some think the Vikings have a roster that can win the SB this year.

I don't "believe" in Cousins per se, but I also don't believe how eager many seem to be to blame him for every failure. He's not Rodgers or Mahomes or Brady or Wilson. So what? Plenty of guys without those names have gotten to and won Superbowls. It's a team game and the team needs to play well to get to and win a Superbowl. That's how guys like Brad Johnson have rings. Nobody can tell me that Kirk Cousins doesn't compare favorably to Brad Johnson, or that if Cousins just plays at this certain level the rest of the team can suck and they'll still be in contention.

Let's just give this "Cousins sucks" stuff a rest. Please. He's not the greatest QB to ever play the game. But he's not the worst either. The only thing that matters, literally the ONLY thing that matters when it comes to evaluating Cousins, is "is he good enough". The answer to that is yes, and nobody, not even the most statistically jaded person, can deny that if the Vikings as a team play well enough, they can win a Superbowl with Cousins at QB.

I never said he sucks. IMO, he limits the team because of what he lacks. He lacks a mental strength, he's inconsistent. He lacks ability to extend plays. He lacks pocket awareness. He's slow in making decisions. I don't doubt he's a good passer. He's made some really nice throws. Is he good enough to lead a team to the SB? Not from what he's shown over the past 3 years. Can he be good enough? If he improves where he lacks, I believe he can. I just think he's reached his ceiling. Time to move on if the Vikings want to win a SB.

Aaron Rodgers has proved over the past 3 years that he's not good enough to lead a team to a Super Bowl. He lacks mental toughness as you say. He is slow making decisions. He lacks pocket awareness. Same problems. Based on your criteria they should move on if they want a Super Bowl. Couldn't even win a home champ game because he's inconsistent. He's reached his ceiling also. How did Jimmy G do it? If Cousins 35 TDs and 8.3 YPA doesn't do it what will? When Cousins took us out to SF and our D gave up and let them pound the ball down their throat and our OL couldn't block at all you don't think that had any thing to do with not making the Super Bowl? Probably not. Those type of things happened to all Super Bowl teams. A QB needs to overcome that.

[VikingsVictorious]

I still look back at 2019 vs SEA. If the Vikings win, they would have been in the driver's seat for the #2 seed. 4th qtr, 3 minutes to go. Down 4. Vikings with the ball. What does Cousins do? 3 really bad passes causing a turnover on downs. That's who he is IMO.
No. I'm asking why wouldn't you start looking at Cousins for blame if they barely make the playoffs? Some think the Vikings have a roster that can win the SB this year.



I never said he sucks. IMO, he limits the team because of what he lacks. He lacks a mental strength, he's inconsistent. He lacks ability to extend plays. He lacks pocket awareness. He's slow in making decisions. I don't doubt he's a good passer. He's made some really nice throws. Is he good enough to lead a team to the SB? Not from what he's shown over the past 3 years. Can he be good enough? If he improves where he lacks, I believe he can. I just think he's reached his ceiling. Time to move on if the Vikings want to win a SB.

Aaron Rodgers has proved over the past 3 years that he's not good enough to lead a team to a Super Bowl. He lacks mental toughness as you say. He is slow making decisions. He lacks pocket awareness. Same problems. Based on your criteria they should move on if they want a Super Bowl. Couldn't even win a home champ game because he's inconsistent. He's reached his ceiling also. How did Jimmy G do it? If Cousins 35 TDs and 8.3 YPA doesn't do it what will? When Cousins took us out to SF and our D gave up and let them pound the ball down their throat and our OL couldn't block at all you don't think that had any thing to do with not making the Super Bowl? Probably not. Those type of things happened to all Super Bowl teams. A QB needs to overcome that.

That 8.3 yards per attempt stat is the huge one. For every incomplete pass there's a completion for 17 yards. Our chances are real good when Kirk is throwing the ball.
5 YPC when Dalvin carries the ball is nice also. Can't wait for this season with our repaired defense to go with that offense. It's going to be legen wait for it dary.

[fiestavike]

Some of these stat breakdowns really miss the mark. Its become boring to talk football over the last couple decades with so much of this kind of 'analysis'.

[S197]

You can't look at Cousins in a vacuum when it's a team sport but I think it's also equally erroneous to assume his contribution to success and failure is anywhere near equal any other player. I mean, look at the guys contract. He's effectively had 6 years of fully guaranteed money and will make $45M next year.

He's paid like an elite QB and almost no one uses that word to describe him. That's not "good enough" or "best we've had" money. That's money you pay to a top 5 QB. Certainly top 10 and it's very arguable if Cousins is a top 10 QB. In the eyes of many third party evaluators like PFF, he's not. And if he is, he's barely squeaking in.

Stafford is an above average QB who bled the Lions for years. That's not what you want to emulate. Brady on the other hand, took a pay cut to get better weapons around him. I'm glad we grabbed Mond and we should grab someone next year too. Even if the odds are around 20% that they pan out, that's a lot higher than a Heinicke, Sloter, Stanley, Browning, etc.

Cousins is here whether we like it or not but I'm glad Rick is finally contemplating life after Cousins. Maybe Cousins signs a team friendly deal next year. He's made his money. But if he doesn't, we finally have some sort of contingency.