Moves the Vikings should make for 2020

[J. Kapp 11]

Wow. You write a lot of interesting things on here, but this has got to be one of your more interesting takes. Brees was the best passer in football the final half of the season. His arm isn't what it once was, but both he and Brady are the proof that what is between the ears is way more important than what is attached to the shoulder.

Brees had a great career. He overcame much and won a Super Bowl. We went to OT with the Saints because of some stiff named Hill. I don't even know who the hell he is. I guess a jack of all. Without that bum we kill that team. I liked Brady when he was in College. NFL teams didn't like him for some reason. Maybe because he couldn't hold the starting job in college. Being smart always helps. But if a guy can't throw a football I don't care how smart they are they won't make it. How many Ivy League guys make great NFL QBs? I'm sure it has happened. But I haven't seen many since I've been watching. I don't recall a Princeton guy ever shinning. I'm sure you'll find one from 1910 or something.

Not many, but you don't have to go all the way back to 1910. Ryan Fitzpatrick. Jay Fiedler. Jack Kemp. Sid Luckman. There are more, but these are the only Ivy League QBs who did much of anything in the NFL. Luckman played in the 1940s, but he's also in the HOF.

Sorry ... you asked.

As for throwing the football, do you honestly believe Drew Brees can't throw it? I'd take that level of ineptitude on my team any day of the week.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Ehh, yeah I would say Brees didnt do a whole lot of anything in this game. No less fumbled in crunch time. Brees looked like an average to below average QB that game.

Just bad luck he lost 100% of his fumbles that game.

Yeah well unfortunately the ball didnt bounce his way. I remember Matt Moore specifically fumbling against us at the end of that KC game twice. Both fell directly on KC's lap. Moore's body unintentionally fell onto one of them. What does that mean? It was more having amazing luck. I could almost best money that for the most part, you cant find many consistencies in QBs fumbling the ball. Even Cousins for example.

2019- lost 3
2018- lost 7
2017- lost 5
2016- lost 3
2015- lost 3

And you're going to tell me Cousins didnt have some bad luck with the ball not bouncing his way in 2018? Fumbling in general has a lot to do with the way the ball bounces. Can you tell me that Matt Moore wasnt lucky to fall on both of those fumbles? Can you tell me Cousins had bad luck if his lineman lets say, had a clear line to it and over ran it because he's fat and uncoordinated? Jacoby Brissett for example had only 7 fumbles this year, which is pretty good but lost 5 of them, which is not a good percentage at all. There is plenty that goes into recovering a fumble. The way it's knocked out, the way it hits the ground, who on your team saw it happen and can react quickly, does the QB land on top of it, etc

Last year you criticized Cousins for being a turnover machine and said he had a "fumbling problem". I specifically told you that he never lost more than 5 in a season, 2 of those seasons only being 3 and you continued to ignore it. This year simply proved that 2018 was filled with more bad luck than anything. Those 5 years average out to 4.2 lost fumbles per year. So like I said, you caught him on the bad luck year and enjoyed ripping into him. Now back to the realization of Cousins not having a fumbling problem.

[fiestavike]

Man it would be fun to see what he could do in a legit passing offense built around him and not his RB or Drew Brees. Even in an offense built for another QB, his numbers in 5 starts project out to be slightly better than Cousins' over 15 games.

So are you saying this offense is built around Kirk Cousins? Because that isnt true. It's built around the run game and Dalvin Cook. Similar to how the offense was in 2015 built around Peterson. The only difference being they hardly threw to AP where Cook gets a lot of targets. This is a Gary Kubiak offense. The screens, play action, etc. isnt something they just did for Kirk Cousins, it's something he has always done. Which is why it's the best offensive scheme for Cousins. But this offense is clearly geared towards the run game. The difference between this offense and Teddy's offense in 2015 is Teddy couldnt make the throws Cousins does. Teddy is an overly conservative game manager. Again, look when we lost in 2015, it was because AP couldnt get anywhere and in turn, Teddy couldnt carry the load. Results in an L or was bailed out by his defense. Not all games but at least 4 of the games this year, Cousins was able to carry the load when Cook wasnt getting anywhere going 3-1 in those games.

As for him at the Saints, I find it funny you arent counting his 6th game because he didnt "start" and it happened to be his worst game by far. Let's be honest, Brees was knocked out early in that game and only threw 5 passes. Teddy threw 30. That was Teddy's game and yeah he didnt play well at all. In 4 of those 6 games, Teddy YPA was under 6.7. Cousins was 8.1 on the year. Why? Because Teddy is an overly conservative game manager. And the game that is jacking these stats up was against the 30th ranked pass defense in the entire NFL in Tampa Bay (most of the year they were sitting in dead last).

It just kills me that somehow, some way, fans still think Teddy was some kind of great passer. Was there a different Teddy that played for the Vikings that was a good passer? Because I sure dont know which Teddy you are talking about. His passing ability was by FAR the most underwhelming aspect of his game. And guys try to use the excuse that AP was the reason Teddy couldnt succeed as a passer. He had 447 passes that year, Cousins had 444 this year. He had his chances and did very little with them. If our 2015 team could play our 2019 team, our 2019 team beats them and beats them handily and it would come down to the QBs. Teddy couldnt hold a stick to Cousins when it comes to passing ability. It's not even close.

But you have guys say Cousins is "scared" or Cousins missed open WRs, or Cousins cant handle the run game being shut down, etc. Nobody was more scared to throw the ball downfield than Teddy was. I can bet my bank account that Teddy missed PLENTY of open WRs (which regardless is a stupid argument because you dont know who is what # read) and nobody struggled more than Teddy when his running back couldnt get anywhere.

Look at the games AP was under 90 yards in 2015:

SF- 31 yards, Teddy was brutal, LOSS
Denver- 81 yards, Teddy was strip sacked on final drive, LOSS
KC- 60 yards, Teddy throws 2 picks, we hold KC's offense to 10 points, WIN
GB- 45 yards, had the game at 19-13, Teddy's final drives consist of sack, sack, turnover on downs, turnover on downs, LOSS
Seattle- 18 yards, Teddy threw for 118 yards and an INT, LOSS
Arizona- 69 yards, Teddy plays one of his better games but again, strip sacked on the final drive, LOSS
Chicago- 60 yards, a team that already threw the towel in, Teddy has the best game of his career, WIN
GB- 67 yards, Teddy threw for a pathetic 99 yards and 0 TDs, WIN

So out of all those, our 5 losses were in there and Teddy was pretty brutal in all 5 of those. The 3 wins we had, 2 were saved by his defense holding KC to 10 points when he was throwing costly INTs and GB when we harassed Rodgers all game and scored a TD. So ok, let's give Teddy ONE "legitimate" win vs a pathetic Bears team at home. The rest were ridden on the coat tails of Adrian Peterson

....but guys complain about Cousins and defend a guy that showed and did very little for this franchise. Less than what Cousins has done

John DeFilipo built an offense around Kirk. It was awesome.

[fiestavike]

Let's look in the pantry and see what's there.

What's in here that might not be expired in two or three years time?

C - Garrett Bradbury
G - Dru Samia
G - Dakota Dozier (?)
T - Aviante Collins (?)
T - Rashad Hill (?)
T - Oli Udoh
T - Brian O'Neill

TE - Irv Smith Jr.
TE - David Morgan (? - Injury)

WR - Stephon Diggs (?)
WR - Adam Thielen (? will be 32)
WR - Bisi Johnson
WR - Alexander Hollins

RB - Alexander Mattison
RB - Dalvin Cook (?)

FB - CJ Ham

QB -

DT - Jalyn Holmes
DT - Jaleel Johnson
DT - Hercules Mata'afa
DT - Armon Watts

DE - Danielle Hunter
DE - Ifeadi Odenigbo
DE - Stephen Weatherly
DE - Eddie Yarbrough

LB - Eric Kendricks
LB - Eric Wilson
LB - Anthony Barr
LB - Kentrell Brothers

S - Jayron Kearse (?)
S - Harrison Smith (? - will be 33)

CB - Holton Hill
CB - Kris Boyd
CB - Mike Hughes
CB - Mackenzie Alexander (?)

Obviously, question marks abound. Draft and FA will change how things look in 3 years, but this list is helpful in seriously trying to contemplate and off-season plan for THIS off-season. The time to address QB with a player who will be there in 3 years is right now.

[Husker Vike]

My biggest complaint with Cousins is his lack of pocket awareness,a QB with his experience should have more than what he shows.

[StumpHunter]

Just bad luck he lost 100% of his fumbles that game.

Yeah well unfortunately the ball didnt bounce his way. I remember Matt Moore specifically fumbling against us at the end of that KC game twice. Both fell directly on KC's lap. Moore's body unintentionally fell onto one of them. What does that mean? It was more having amazing luck. I could almost best money that for the most part, you cant find many consistencies in QBs fumbling the ball. Even Cousins for example.

2019- lost 3
2018- lost 7
2017- lost 5
2016- lost 3
2015- lost 3

And you're going to tell me Cousins didnt have some bad luck with the ball not bouncing his way in 2018? Fumbling in general has a lot to do with the way the ball bounces. Can you tell me that Matt Moore wasnt lucky to fall on both of those fumbles? Can you tell me Cousins had bad luck if his lineman lets say, had a clear line to it and over ran it because he's fat and uncoordinated? Jacoby Brissett for example had only 7 fumbles this year, which is pretty good but lost 5 of them, which is not a good percentage at all. There is plenty that goes into recovering a fumble. The way it's knocked out, the way it hits the ground, who on your team saw it happen and can react quickly, does the QB land on top of it, etc

Last year you criticized Cousins for being a turnover machine and said he had a "fumbling problem". I specifically told you that he never lost more than 5 in a season, 2 of those seasons only being 3 and you continued to ignore it. This year simply proved that 2018 was filled with more bad luck than anything. Those 5 years average out to 4.2 lost fumbles per year. So like I said, you caught him on the bad luck year and enjoyed ripping into him. Now back to the realization of Cousins not having a fumbling problem.

He has the 4th most fumbles lost since 2015.

Isn't he also like #1 in total fumbles since he took over as a full time starter? Or did someone pass him this year?

[Pondering Her Percy]

So are you saying this offense is built around Kirk Cousins? Because that isnt true. It's built around the run game and Dalvin Cook. Similar to how the offense was in 2015 built around Peterson. The only difference being they hardly threw to AP where Cook gets a lot of targets. This is a Gary Kubiak offense. The screens, play action, etc. isnt something they just did for Kirk Cousins, it's something he has always done. Which is why it's the best offensive scheme for Cousins. But this offense is clearly geared towards the run game. The difference between this offense and Teddy's offense in 2015 is Teddy couldnt make the throws Cousins does. Teddy is an overly conservative game manager. Again, look when we lost in 2015, it was because AP couldnt get anywhere and in turn, Teddy couldnt carry the load. Results in an L or was bailed out by his defense. Not all games but at least 4 of the games this year, Cousins was able to carry the load when Cook wasnt getting anywhere going 3-1 in those games.

As for him at the Saints, I find it funny you arent counting his 6th game because he didnt "start" and it happened to be his worst game by far. Let's be honest, Brees was knocked out early in that game and only threw 5 passes. Teddy threw 30. That was Teddy's game and yeah he didnt play well at all. In 4 of those 6 games, Teddy YPA was under 6.7. Cousins was 8.1 on the year. Why? Because Teddy is an overly conservative game manager. And the game that is jacking these stats up was against the 30th ranked pass defense in the entire NFL in Tampa Bay (most of the year they were sitting in dead last).

It just kills me that somehow, some way, fans still think Teddy was some kind of great passer. Was there a different Teddy that played for the Vikings that was a good passer? Because I sure dont know which Teddy you are talking about. His passing ability was by FAR the most underwhelming aspect of his game. And guys try to use the excuse that AP was the reason Teddy couldnt succeed as a passer. He had 447 passes that year, Cousins had 444 this year. He had his chances and did very little with them. If our 2015 team could play our 2019 team, our 2019 team beats them and beats them handily and it would come down to the QBs. Teddy couldnt hold a stick to Cousins when it comes to passing ability. It's not even close.

But you have guys say Cousins is "scared" or Cousins missed open WRs, or Cousins cant handle the run game being shut down, etc. Nobody was more scared to throw the ball downfield than Teddy was. I can bet my bank account that Teddy missed PLENTY of open WRs (which regardless is a stupid argument because you dont know who is what # read) and nobody struggled more than Teddy when his running back couldnt get anywhere.

Look at the games AP was under 90 yards in 2015:

SF- 31 yards, Teddy was brutal, LOSS
Denver- 81 yards, Teddy was strip sacked on final drive, LOSS
KC- 60 yards, Teddy throws 2 picks, we hold KC's offense to 10 points, WIN
GB- 45 yards, had the game at 19-13, Teddy's final drives consist of sack, sack, turnover on downs, turnover on downs, LOSS
Seattle- 18 yards, Teddy threw for 118 yards and an INT, LOSS
Arizona- 69 yards, Teddy plays one of his better games but again, strip sacked on the final drive, LOSS
Chicago- 60 yards, a team that already threw the towel in, Teddy has the best game of his career, WIN
GB- 67 yards, Teddy threw for a pathetic 99 yards and 0 TDs, WIN

So out of all those, our 5 losses were in there and Teddy was pretty brutal in all 5 of those. The 3 wins we had, 2 were saved by his defense holding KC to 10 points when he was throwing costly INTs and GB when we harassed Rodgers all game and scored a TD. So ok, let's give Teddy ONE "legitimate" win vs a pathetic Bears team at home. The rest were ridden on the coat tails of Adrian Peterson

....but guys complain about Cousins and defend a guy that showed and did very little for this franchise. Less than what Cousins has done

John DeFilipo built an offense around Kirk. It was awesome.

No it was flat out dumb. You have arguably one of the best RBs in the league and hardly used him. Which put every bit of weight on Cousins. How many offenses in this league are successful with a non-existent run game? There’s a reason Flip got fired for now the second season in a row. He’s simply not a good play caller/implementer. Not sure where you’re even trying to go here...

[Pondering Her Percy]

Yeah well unfortunately the ball didnt bounce his way. I remember Matt Moore specifically fumbling against us at the end of that KC game twice. Both fell directly on KC's lap. Moore's body unintentionally fell onto one of them. What does that mean? It was more having amazing luck. I could almost best money that for the most part, you cant find many consistencies in QBs fumbling the ball. Even Cousins for example.

2019- lost 3
2018- lost 7
2017- lost 5
2016- lost 3
2015- lost 3

And you're going to tell me Cousins didnt have some bad luck with the ball not bouncing his way in 2018? Fumbling in general has a lot to do with the way the ball bounces. Can you tell me that Matt Moore wasnt lucky to fall on both of those fumbles? Can you tell me Cousins had bad luck if his lineman lets say, had a clear line to it and over ran it because he's fat and uncoordinated? Jacoby Brissett for example had only 7 fumbles this year, which is pretty good but lost 5 of them, which is not a good percentage at all. There is plenty that goes into recovering a fumble. The way it's knocked out, the way it hits the ground, who on your team saw it happen and can react quickly, does the QB land on top of it, etc

Last year you criticized Cousins for being a turnover machine and said he had a "fumbling problem". I specifically told you that he never lost more than 5 in a season, 2 of those seasons only being 3 and you continued to ignore it. This year simply proved that 2018 was filled with more bad luck than anything. Those 5 years average out to 4.2 lost fumbles per year. So like I said, you caught him on the bad luck year and enjoyed ripping into him. Now back to the realization of Cousins not having a fumbling problem.

He has the 4th most fumbles lost since 2015.

Isn't he also like #1 in total fumbles since he took over as a full time starter? Or did someone pass him this year?

Yeah because he had one truly bad year when it came to losing fumbles. Last year. And he’s also one of the only QBs that’s consistently been healthy 4 straight years. Rodgers has missed time, Brees, Wentz, Big Ben, Stafford, Newton, etc. Many of the nfl starters haven’t been in the league for 4 years, some nowhere near that. So again, it’s another “I think I’m proving something” stat when really you aren’t proving much at all.

[CharVike]

I'd trade Kirk and sign Teddy if possible. Otherwise I'd bench Kirk and sign Teddy.

Well then I’m glad you don’t call the shots on this team. You must think Kyle Sloter is a stud too

Teddy was never a good QB. If he is he will bring attention during FA just like Cousins did. He will get multiple offers from teams and get a offer that beats all QB deals. I'll break the news. That won't happen. The guy is a backup. Teams that need a backup will take a look. But some here think he's a top flight guy.

[RandyMoss84]

I saw the Bears hired DeFlippio as quarterback coach, I guess we will be seeing him twice a year

[CharVike]

I saw the Bears hired DeFlippio as quarterback coach, I guess we will be seeing him twice a year

The Bears have the same problem as us and the Lions. Our QBs aren't close to Rodgers. When Rodgers was out the Bears won the division with the stiff they had and their D looked dam good. Our D shut the Pack out. With Rodgers they become the dominate force. Give us or the Bears or the Lions Rodgers and it will switch. It don't work that way. There's only two ways to catch that Packer team. Get a QB that is as good or better than Rodgers. I don't see that guy in this draft and I don't see a guy that will be available for trade or FA either. Some on here think it's Teddy. Hello he blows. So a dominate D needs to be built. That won't happen in one off season. Basically I'm posting all 3 of us haven't found a QB that is capable enough. None of us have built a D that is dominate enough either.
Of course if Rodgers gets hurt again next season every team is in it. I give SF credit for building a great D and rushing attack. They needed to because the QB they have isn't capable of carrying that team. When they creamed us it had nothing to do with him. It was a thunderous ground attack and a D that forced the issue. That D will force Rodgers to do things that he normally wouldn't. Even he will crumble when the pressure is on him big time. That's why the 49ers give them a tough time. Sherman and a guy over the top will blanket the one WR they have and then they will stuff Jones. So scoring will be hard. But the Pack can play some D. I don't not what the ranking is but they will try to shut the running game down and make this QB beat them. He's not good enough.

[CharVike]

I saw the Bears hired DeFlippio as quarterback coach, I guess we will be seeing him twice a year

The Bears have the same problem as us and the Lions. Our QBs aren't close to Rodgers. When Rodgers was out the Bears won the division with the stiff they had and their D looked dam good. Our D shut the Pack out. With Rodgers they become the dominate force. Give us or the Bears or the Lions Rodgers and it will switch. It don't work that way. There's only two ways to catch that Packer team. Get a QB that is as good or better than Rodgers. I don't see that guy in this draft and I don't see a guy that will be available for trade or FA either. Some on here think it's Teddy. Hello he blows. So a dominate D needs to be built. That won't happen in one off season. Basically I'm posting all 3 of us haven't found a QB that is capable enough. None of us have built a D that is dominate enough either.
Of course if Rodgers gets hurt again next season every team is in it. I give SF credit for building a great D and rushing attack. They needed to because the QB they have isn't capable of carrying that team. When they creamed us it had nothing to do with him. It was a thunderous ground attack and a D that forced the issue. That D will force Rodgers to do things that he normally wouldn't. Even he will crumble when the pressure is on him big time. That's why the 49ers give them a tough time. Sherman and a guy over the top will blanket the one WR they have and then they will stuff Jones. So scoring will be hard. But the Pack can play some D. I don't not what the ranking is but they will try to shut the running game down and make this QB beat them. He's not good enough.

Plus SF is at home. West coast trip is never easy for some reason. Time change I guess or weather. Who knows. I don't.

[fiestavike]

Well then I’m glad you don’t call the shots on this team. You must think Kyle Sloter is a stud too

Teddy was never a good QB. If he is he will bring attention during FA just like Cousins did. He will get multiple offers from teams and get a offer that beats all QB deals. I'll break the news. That won't happen. The guy is a backup. Teams that need a backup will take a look. But some here think he's a top flight guy.

I hope you are right. We could trade Kirk and sign Teddy for cheap.

Kirk might even bring in a 2nd round pick!

We could use that to help trade up for an earlier pick in the 1st so we could draft one too.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Teddy was never a good QB. If he is he will bring attention during FA just like Cousins did. He will get multiple offers from teams and get a offer that beats all QB deals. I'll break the news. That won't happen. The guy is a backup. Teams that need a backup will take a look. But some here think he's a top flight guy.

I hope you are right. We could trade Kirk and sign Teddy for cheap.

Kirk might even bring in a 2nd round pick!

We could use that to help trade up for an earlier pick in the 1st so we could draft one too.

Just a stat to throw out there, for those that say "Kirk is a glorified game manager", "too conservative", "scared to take deep shots", etc.

Do you want to know who ranked LAST in depth of target average this season? Teddy Bridgewater. Heard that on Norsecode Podcast last night. So not only did it seem to me that Teddy was an ultra conservative QB that's scared to take deep shots, it's actually a proven fact.

[fiestavike]

I hope you are right. We could trade Kirk and sign Teddy for cheap.

Kirk might even bring in a 2nd round pick!

We could use that to help trade up for an earlier pick in the 1st so we could draft one too.

Just a stat to throw out there, for those that say "Kirk is a glorified game manager", "too conservative", "scared to take deep shots", etc.

Do you want to know who ranked LAST in depth of target average this season? Teddy Bridgewater. Heard that on Norsecode Podcast last night. So not only did it seem to me that Teddy was an ultra conservative QB that's scared to take deep shots, it's actually a proven fact.

Go Kirk!