Sloter

[VikingLord]

I thought this was a joke post when I first saw it.

It appears it isn't.

Who really believes the Vikings have a better option at QB for the rest of this season than the one they've got?

If the Vikings have chosen to live and die with Kirk Cousins, nobody else is out there that can save them. They've got to make it work with him at QB, and it can work with him at QB provided the rest of the team does their jobs. If they don't and they need to rely on Cousins to win games, its going to be a long, long season.

[CharVike]

Whatever you think. Like the AFC east is loaded with HOF QBs. They have one guy and the rest suck. That's just the start.

All of the Qbs in the AFC West is better than ours. All of the Qbs in the NFC West is better than ours. All of the Qbs in the NFC South is better than ours. There isn't a QB shortage. We are just awful at finding said QBs. We need to draft guys and groom them.

Bottom line we never replaced Fran and he retired in the 70s. One of our former draft picks Teddy will get his chance again. He sucks. Look at our division one great QB the other 3 are stop gaps. But there is no shortage at all in your mind.

[CharVike]

I thought this was a joke post when I first saw it.

It appears it isn't.

Who really believes the Vikings have a better option at QB for the rest of this season than the one they've got?

If the Vikings have chosen to live and die with Kirk Cousins, nobody else is out there that can save them. They've got to make it work with him at QB, and it can work with him at QB provided the rest of the team does their jobs. If they don't and they need to rely on Cousins to win games, its going to be a long, long season.

Right now we have no choice. QBs don't grow on trees. There is nothing available. We also have nothing in the hole. Coming off a lose things look bleak. Blame is across the board. Nothing worked for us. But IMO this OC gets the most blame. His QB sucked all day and our RB was unstoppable. Use whats working. He couldn't figure that out. Stupid hire. We need to get back to limited passing and pound the rock. Even this Matti average 6 ypc. But if our D gets blown up we don't have a chance. Once your in a hole the entire deal becomes much more difficult. Cousins is a stop gap. Any QB that becomes available is a stop gap. I would like Rodgers but guess what he won't be available. Just like when we got Farve. A stop gap. We could have traded for Flacco but he sucks also. Eli could be available next year but guess what. He sucks.

[YikesVikes]

All of the Qbs in the AFC West is better than ours. All of the Qbs in the NFC West is better than ours. All of the Qbs in the NFC South is better than ours. There isn't a QB shortage. We are just awful at finding said QBs. We need to draft guys and groom them.

Bottom line we never replaced Fran and he retired in the 70s. One of our former draft picks Teddy will get his chance again. He sucks. Look at our division one great QB the other 3 are stop gaps. But there is no shortage at all in your mind.

None. It's like expecting ever QB to be elite. Just like any position, you have tiers of of talent. Look at RB, lots of talent but a clear differential between 1 and 20

[VikingLord]

Right now we have no choice. QBs don't grow on trees. There is nothing available. We also have nothing in the hole. Coming off a lose things look bleak. Blame is across the board. Nothing worked for us. But IMO this OC gets the most blame. His QB sucked all day and our RB was unstoppable. Use whats working. He couldn't figure that out. Stupid hire. We need to get back to limited passing and pound the rock. Even this Matti average 6 ypc. But if our D gets blown up we don't have a chance. Once your in a hole the entire deal becomes much more difficult. Cousins is a stop gap. Any QB that becomes available is a stop gap. I would like Rodgers but guess what he won't be available. Just like when we got Farve. A stop gap. We could have traded for Flacco but he sucks also. Eli could be available next year but guess what. He sucks.

I agree with you totally, but the game situation altered how the Vikings had to play. When a team goes down 21-0 in the first 16 minutes on the road, they are going to have to throw more to get back in it.

You're right though that QBs don't grow on trees and replacing Cousins is neither easy nor obviously going to improve the overall situation. Which is why I think they have to play better as a team overall so Cousins can do what he does best and not be forced to play hero. When Cousins has to be a hero and improvise, he's not good. When he's able to direct a balanced attack and is given time, he can make some great plays and hurt defenses all over the field.

So the team, starting with it's vaunted defense, has to just be better overall. You've said that in other posts and I completely agree. Keep the opposing offense to 2 TDs or less and the Vikings should win most or all of those games. Let them get it into the 20's, especially early, and the Vikings are going to struggle and be forced to rely on Cousins (or any QB they'd replace him with) for that matter.

[fiestavike]

Right now we have no choice. QBs don't grow on trees. There is nothing available. We also have nothing in the hole. Coming off a lose things look bleak. Blame is across the board. Nothing worked for us. But IMO this OC gets the most blame. His QB sucked all day and our RB was unstoppable. Use whats working. He couldn't figure that out. Stupid hire. We need to get back to limited passing and pound the rock. Even this Matti average 6 ypc. But if our D gets blown up we don't have a chance. Once your in a hole the entire deal becomes much more difficult. Cousins is a stop gap. Any QB that becomes available is a stop gap. I would like Rodgers but guess what he won't be available. Just like when we got Farve. A stop gap. We could have traded for Flacco but he sucks also. Eli could be available next year but guess what. He sucks.

I agree with you totally, but the game situation altered how the Vikings had to play. When a team goes down 21-0 in the first 16 minutes on the road, they are going to have to throw more to get back in it.

You're right though that QBs don't grow on trees and replacing Cousins is neither easy nor obviously going to improve the overall situation. Which is why I think they have to play better as a team overall so Cousins can do what he does best and not be forced to play hero. When Cousins has to be a hero and improvise, he's not good. When he's able to direct a balanced attack and is given time, he can make some great plays and hurt defenses all over the field.

So the team, starting with it's vaunted defense, has to just be better overall. You've said that in other posts and I completely agree. Keep the opposing offense to 2 TDs or less and the Vikings should win most or all of those games. Let them get it into the 20's, especially early, and the Vikings are going to struggle and be forced to rely on Cousins (or any QB they'd replace him with) for that matter.

Because in the course of a single game against good competition there are going to be moments when your QB has to make plays. Over the course of 3 or 4 games in the playoffs, these will be many such moments. Kirk can't handle those moments.

[VikingLord]

Because in the course of a single game against good competition there are going to be moments when your QB has to make plays. Over the course of 3 or 4 games in the playoffs, these will be many such moments. Kirk can't handle those moments.

But the same is true for the defense, is it not? For the special teams? For the coaches?

Everyone has those moments and everyone has those plays to make.

Who, in your opinion, is a better option than Cousins right now? If nobody right now, who is the answer longer-term? You want to play GM, play it. I'd be curious to hear what you would do or even have done differently.

[Mothman]

Because in the course of a single game against good competition there are going to be moments when your QB has to make plays. Over the course of 3 or 4 games in the playoffs, these will be many such moments. Kirk can't handle those moments.

But the same is true for the defense, is it not? For the special teams? For the coaches?

Everyone has those moments and everyone has those plays to make.

Who, in your opinion, is a better option than Cousins right now? If nobody right now, who is the answer longer-term? You want to play GM, play it. I'd be curious to hear what you would do or even have done differently.

The answer long-term is "someone better".

This gets back to a few core problems of the Spielman era. The QB position has been perpetually mismanaged. There's been a strong tendency to put all their eggs in one basket with no good "plan B" for the future. We've discussed it here many times but it's played out from Jackson until now. The Vikings have a young QB (Jackson, Ponder, Bridgewater), count on that young player to be the solution and when he isn't, for any reason, they sign a veteran stopgap, usually because they don't have a good enough backup to take over and be an effective starter (Keenum proved the exception to that). On more than one occasion, I think they've compounded this decision-making by overestimating where the team is at in it's development or by going "all in" to try to win it all immediately. 2009 is a great example of the latter. It didn't work out and left the team devastated for a few years. 2016 and the trade for Bradford was a great example of the former and the acquisition of Cousins as a supposed "final piece" is another. They seemed convinced after 2015 that they could win it all in 2016 and they desperately went after Bradford so Bridgewater's injury wouldn't deprive them of a Super Bowl. They weren't SB-ready anyway, with or without those two QBs, and it showed. Ditto for last year.

They need a GM with patience, a coach who isn't a glorified defensive coordinator, a young QB with the potential to be a star and a genuinely good backup plan if that player doesn't pan out. ALL of that obviously takes scouting, coaching, time and good leadership and they have to build a championship team around that young QB too. In other words, I'm not trying to suggest any of it's simple. My point is there's a good chance the QB who will lead the Vikings to their first Super Bowl win isn't even in the NFL yet and if the last 12 years or so have taught us anything, it's that Spielman's unlikely to be the guy that finds him.

[Alaskan]

But the same is true for the defense, is it not? For the special teams? For the coaches?

Everyone has those moments and everyone has those plays to make.

Who, in your opinion, is a better option than Cousins right now? If nobody right now, who is the answer longer-term? You want to play GM, play it. I'd be curious to hear what you would do or even have done differently.

The answer long-term is "someone better".

This gets back to a few core problems of the Spielman era. The QB position has been perpetually mismanaged. There's been a strong tendency to put all their eggs in one basket with no good "plan B" for the future. We've discussed it here many times but it's played out from Jackson until now. The Vikings have a young QB (Jackson, Ponder, Bridgewater), count on that young player to be the solution and when he isn't, for any reason, they sign a veteran stopgap, usually because they don't have a good enough backup to take over and be an effective starter (Keenum proved the exception to that). On more than one occasion, I think they've compounded this decision-making by overestimating where the team is at in it's development or by going "all in" to try to win it all immediately. 2009 is a great example of the latter. It didn't work out and left the team devastated for a few years. 2016 and the trade for Bradford was a great example of the former and the acquisition of Cousins as a supposed "final piece" is another. They seemed convinced after 2015 that they could win it all in 2016 and they desperately went after Bradford so Bridgewater's injury wouldn't deprive them of a Super Bowl. They weren't SB-ready anyway, with or without those two QBs, and it showed. Ditto for last year.

They need a GM with patience, a coach who isn't a glorified defensive coordinator, a young QB with the potential to be a star and a genuinely good backup plan if that player doesn't pan out. ALL of that obviously takes scouting, coaching, time and good leadership and they have to build a championship team around that young QB too. In other words, I'm not trying to suggest any of it's simple. My point is there's a good chance the QB who will lead the Vikings to their first Super Bowl win isn't even in the NFL yet and if the last 12 years or so have taught us anything, it's that Spielman's unlikely to be the guy that finds him.

I like your post! In all honesty, I have come around to this way of thinking. When there was talk of signing Cousins I really started to question the direction leadership was taking this team. When they actually signed him, (to an unprecedented contract) I knew they where going down in flames. They have continued to go all in since, because, they basically have no choice.

I think it’s time to begin a rebuild of sorts. Kubiak may be the main offense person to have in place to lead the team in identifying QB prospects. One way or another they need to draft young QB with promise. If it takes giving up top tier assets to get one, I am all for it. Spielman has had opportunities to get it right and has failed. It’s time for a change in leadership.

[Purple Martin]

Because in the course of a single game against good competition there are going to be moments when your QB has to make plays. Over the course of 3 or 4 games in the playoffs, these will be many such moments. Kirk can't handle those moments.

But the same is true for the defense, is it not? For the special teams? For the coaches?

Everyone has those moments and everyone has those plays to make.

Who, in your opinion, is a better option than Cousins right now? If nobody right now, who is the answer longer-term? You want to play GM, play it. I'd be curious to hear what you would do or even have done differently.

I don't know if he's a better option than Cousins but a better option for backup to Cousins would have beend Sloter. We know Mannion is not a solution to anything. And we need look no further than Dan Carlson to find glaring and very recent personnel mistakes this organization has made.

But Sloter is gone and he aint coming back. But keeping him is what I would have done. We now have nobody in the hopper for developmental qb, an unacceptable situation that the Vikings have been in for years...

[fiestavike]

Who could the Vikings realistically trade for now to perhaps be a QB for the future, and to replace Cousins after his contract is up?

I'm still curious who the best options are for guys who could be available this year...guys who could come in and back up while providing a potential QB of the future. I'm not a fan of Rosen, but he comes to mind seeing as Miami is going with the fire sale. Are there any other realistic options after the rash of QB injuries we've seen recently?

[Mothman]

Who could the Vikings realistically trade for now to perhaps be a QB for the future, and to replace Cousins after his contract is up?

I'm still curious who the best options are for guys who could be available this year...guys who could come in and back up while providing a potential QB of the future. I'm not a fan of Rosen, but he comes to mind seeing as Miami is going with the fire sale. Are there any other realistic options after the rash of QB injuries we've seen recently?

Good question. Honestly, I have no idea...

Possibly Nick Mullens (SF) or Kyle Allen (who will be starting for Carolina this week)?

[Pondering Her Percy]

But the same is true for the defense, is it not? For the special teams? For the coaches?

Everyone has those moments and everyone has those plays to make.

Who, in your opinion, is a better option than Cousins right now? If nobody right now, who is the answer longer-term? You want to play GM, play it. I'd be curious to hear what you would do or even have done differently.

The answer long-term is "someone better".

This gets back to a few core problems of the Spielman era. The QB position has been perpetually mismanaged. There's been a strong tendency to put all their eggs in one basket with no good "plan B" for the future. We've discussed it here many times but it's played out from Jackson until now. The Vikings have a young QB (Jackson, Ponder, Bridgewater), count on that young player to be the solution and when he isn't, for any reason, they sign a veteran stopgap, usually because they don't have a good enough backup to take over and be an effective starter (Keenum proved the exception to that). On more than one occasion, I think they've compounded this decision-making by overestimating where the team is at in it's development or by going "all in" to try to win it all immediately. 2009 is a great example of the latter. It didn't work out and left the team devastated for a few years. 2016 and the trade for Bradford was a great example of the former and the acquisition of Cousins as a supposed "final piece" is another. They seemed convinced after 2015 that they could win it all in 2016 and they desperately went after Bradford so Bridgewater's injury wouldn't deprive them of a Super Bowl. They weren't SB-ready anyway, with or without those two QBs, and it showed. Ditto for last year.

They need a GM with patience, a coach who isn't a glorified defensive coordinator, a young QB with the potential to be a star and a genuinely good backup plan if that player doesn't pan out. ALL of that obviously takes scouting, coaching, time and good leadership and they have to build a championship team around that young QB too. In other words, I'm not trying to suggest any of it's simple. My point is there's a good chance the QB who will lead the Vikings to their first Super Bowl win isn't even in the NFL yet and if the last 12 years or so have taught us anything, it's that Spielman's unlikely to be the guy that finds him.

Spielman is also the reason we have the roster that we do right now. Some wish for a new GM and don’t realize how bad it could be. There are probably 8 or so GMs out there that could have put together a roster like Spielman has as of late. I also heard he couldn’t find a good WR at one point, I’ve heard he couldn’t find a good LB at one point, I’ve heard he couldn’t find OL to save his life. Same song different dance. Every GM is going to have at least one position they aren’t “good” at finding because no team is full of strengths and no weaknesses. Granted he hasn’t attempted to draft a QB since Teddy.

Guys all over this board say “this team is in a SB window”....well if we’re in a SB window then that means our GM is doing something right. And so is our coach

[Mothman]

Spielman is also the reason we have the roster that we do right now

Yes, and that's been true for almost a decade (technically more than a decade since he was a key corner in the "Triangle of Authority"). That's as much of an argument against retaining Spielman as it is an argument for him.

Some wish for a new GM and don’t realize how bad it could be.

That may be true but I'm not one of them. I know it could be worse but I also see that it could be better and I think Spielman has clearly been a limiting factor.

There are probably 8 or so GMs out there that could have put together a roster like Spielman has as of late. I also heard he couldn’t find a good WR at one point, I’ve heard he couldn’t find a good LB at one point, I’ve heard he couldn’t find OL to save his life. Same song different dance. Every GM is going to have at least one position they aren’t “good” at finding because no team is full of strengths and no weaknesses. Granted he hasn’t attempted to draft a QB since Teddy.

Guys all over this board say “this team is in a SB window”....well if we’re in a SB window then that means our GM is doing something right. And so is our coach

"IF" we're in a Super Bowl window... are they? If so, just how open is that window?

You're correct, Spielman and Zimmer have been doing "something right" but I don't think they've been doing enough right. It looks to me like they have a ceiling as coach/GM that's going to fall short of a Super Bowl win.

"Guys on this board" have been saying the team is in a Super Bowl window for years. Pundits have too. It doesn't mean they've been right. Open window or not, the Vikings have clearly failed to reach the Super Bowl again. When they Vikes got close, they were blown out. That clearly indicated they had considerably more work to do before they would be a genuine threat to win it all. Have they done it? As I wrote above, I think one of the problems under Spielman has been overestimating where the team is at in its development and making moves grounded in that estimation. He's assembled some talented rosters and this year is no exception but to me, this looks more like a team that might make the playoffs again (and possibly even advance a round) than a team likely to storm through them and win a title. We'll see... maybe I'm wrong about that but at this point, oddsmakers are giving them about the same chance to win it all this season as the Browns. I think that speaks volumes about the nature of their window.

Bottom line: if they fall short yet again, ownership will need to seriously consider a change at the top and all that entails.

[CharVike]

Spielman is also the reason we have the roster that we do right now

Yes, and that's been true for almost a decade (technically more than a decade since he was a key corner in the "Triangle of Authority"). That's as much of an argument against retaining Spielman as it is an argument for him.

Some wish for a new GM and don’t realize how bad it could be.

That may be true but I'm not one of them. I know it could be worse but I also see that it could be better and I think Spielman has clearly been a limiting factor.

There are probably 8 or so GMs out there that could have put together a roster like Spielman has as of late. I also heard he couldn’t find a good WR at one point, I’ve heard he couldn’t find a good LB at one point, I’ve heard he couldn’t find OL to save his life. Same song different dance. Every GM is going to have at least one position they aren’t “good” at finding because no team is full of strengths and no weaknesses. Granted he hasn’t attempted to draft a QB since Teddy.

Guys all over this board say “this team is in a SB window”....well if we’re in a SB window then that means our GM is doing something right. And so is our coach

"IF" we're in a Super Bowl window... are they? If so, just how open is that window?

You're correct, Spielman and Zimmer have been doing "something right" but I don't think they've been doing enough right. It looks to me like they have a ceiling as coach/GM that's going to fall short of a Super Bowl win.

"Guys on this board" have been saying the team is in a Super Bowl window for years. Pundits have too. It doesn't mean they've been right. Open window or not, the Vikings have clearly failed to reach the Super Bowl again. When they Vikes got close, they were blown out. That clearly indicated they had considerably more work to do before they would be a genuine threat to win it all. Have they done it? As I wrote above, I think one of the problems under Spielman has been overestimating where the team is at in its development and making moves grounded in that estimation. He's assembled some talented rosters and this year is no exception but to me, this looks more like a team that might make the playoffs again (and possibly even advance a round) than a team likely to storm through them and win a title. We'll see... maybe I'm wrong about that but at this point, oddsmakers are giving them about the same chance to win it all this season as the Browns. I think that speaks volumes about the nature of their window.

Bottom line: if they fall short yet again, ownership will need to seriously consider a change at the top and all that entails.

Ziggy is a Giant fan. Our team is an investment. He paid 600 million and it's now worth over 2 billion. He got a publicly financed stadium. Good job by him so far from his perspective. Would he like a Vikings Super Bowl? Sure. It's about ego. Speilman has put a competitive team out there but we are not Super Bowl contenders. It will take almost a perfect season to get into the playoffs. If Rodgers stays healthy we might not make it. The road is tough for us. The Bears have a good team that lacks a top flight QB. But that D will keep them in games. It did the 1st two weeks and they are 1-1. The Rams look like the team right now and I don't think we can stop them. They will score many points against us which means our QB will need to carry us. Cousins or Case or Sloter aren't good enough for that. We need Rodgers. Guess what. He's a Packer until he breaks down. But Speilman is here for a while. We made it to the NFC champ game with a bum at QB. Ziggy won't do anything unless he can't sell tickets or the value of the team starts to drop. Then he'll do something. Right now he's more concerned about the Giants new QB. Maybe Eli will come here. Maybe that will solve our problems. He's a winner and has two rings.