Vikings vs. Cardinals thoughts

[VikingLord]

We know what we have in Cousins and it is a lot better than we saw today. He wasn't going to magically turn into this elite QB with Kubiak's offense, but he also isn't going to be 3-13 most games. He is an above average QB regardless of what happened in this game.

You hit it on the head, but I'll add that the pass blocking was, well, not good. And that is being gracious. Cards came with a far more aggressive defensive plan and attitude than I think the Vikings were prepared to deal with, probably because they are a bad team in need of a boost and the Vikings are a better team playing out a truly meaningless preseason. It showed on the field, but also showed why I'm still not sold on this offensive line, because while the rest of the Vikings team doesn't have much to prove this preseason (you mentioned multiple defensive players along those lines and I agree with you on those and others), the offensive line does. They seemed overwhelmed at times.

The result of that falls back on everyone's favorite whipping boy - Cousins. He looked bad, true, but he didn't get much help in looking better from the guys in front of him. Even Cook's run was 90% Cook and 10% OL as Cook had to find a pretty narrow seam (which he did) and then beat two defensive players trying to tackle him (he did) with what looked like an almost superhuman burst of speed. Pretty amazing highlight reel run that, based on the blocking he got, should have gotten no more than 10 yards and maybe less than that.

The short of it for me is that the offensive line wasn't prepared to meet the intensity and blitzes the Cardinals threw at them. It reminded me a lot of the home game against Miami last year where the OL was completely exposed. Cousins looked ineffective in that game too for much the same reason, and it was the harbinger of many similar performances to come.

I'm glad the Cardinals came out so aggressively before the games start to count. This can be a real wakeup call for the OL and the coaches and a reminder that the OL is still a huge question mark at best right now, and still the team's Achilles's heel at worst.

[Pondering Her Percy]

So people who are worried about Cousins aren't level-headed? We have years of data on him, not just one meaningless preseason game.

When they are panicking over a preseason performance? Yes. I would say let this season do the talking. Again, nobody is harsher on cousins than stump but he even said cousins is better than that and it’s simply a preseason game. The guy is known for his accuracy. It’s not like he goes 3-13 consistently. If ever other than that game. He was 10-12 prior to the Arizona game in the preseason this year. Nobody says a word about that though. They just wait and pounce on him anytime he wipes his a## with the wrong hand. The guy isn’t perfect by any means but again, it’s a preseason game, who gives a shi#!!

Very true. Its the fact he has those performances in the regular season too, that he can't win in primetime, that he can't beat good teams that are troubling.

Ok and this game wasn’t a prime time game, it wasn’t a regular season game, it wasn’t a playoff game, thielen didn’t play and he played 2 quarters. No less I can guarantee they are hiding 90% of their playbook. What does that prove? Literally nothing. Which is why I take it with a grain of salt.

ROFL, thats hilarious. How would he get "on the field somewhere" if Zimmer won't let him? I don't question Zimmer's personnel decisions 9 times out of 10 because there's no reason to. There's a lot of reason to question his failure to give Sloter a chance. Coaches can be wrong you know, Zimmer is no Belicek.

Lol dude teams could easily trade for him. If somebody wants to send us a decent pick and/or player for him do you think Spielman is going to say no? Highly, highly doubtful.

And question Zim for not giving him a chance?? Are you serious right now? When should Zim have given him a chance? Not all 7 losses and a tie were cousins’ fault. Did he play bad in some of those games? Yeah. But he was the main reason we were back in that first packers game, he was the main reason we were running with the rams, outside of the miscommunication with Diggs vs NO he played very good, Seattle and New England were poorly executed games on Flips part (ignoring running the ball), he crapped the bed both times vs Chicago (which most QBs did last year), and buffalo was an overall train wreck. So what’s Zim gonna do? Bench his QB 3 weeks in for Kyle Sloter after the Buffalo game?!! Bench him after 3 straight wins but then a loss to New Orleans (a game he played pretty well in), bench him after you fire your OC after 2 straight losses for refusing to run the football?

Like when in gods name do you think Kyle sloter should have gotten a shot? He shouldn’t have and it’s asinine to even think he should have at any point last year. No coach would have benched cousins for sloter. Including bill belichick

[Purple Martin]

I don't recall anyone stating that Sloter should be starting. Sloter has earned an opportunity to play with the 2s at least, and maybe even start a preseason game. Give him a chance to compete for the #2 slot, that's all anyone is asking.

[StumpHunter]

I don't recall anyone stating that Sloter should be starting. Sloter has earned an opportunity to play with the 2s at least, and maybe even start a preseason game. Give him a chance to compete for the #2 slot, that's all anyone is asking.

More important than how you play in the 3rd and 4th Qtr of practice games is the work you put in in the film room, training camp and the rest of practice. It doesn't sound like Sloter is doing enough there, and Mannion is. If that is true, Mannion is the one who has "earned" a start in the 4th preseason game. It could be that Sloter isn't that bad in practice though, and Zimmer is using the media to motivate his player to work harder.

That being said, there is really no harm in him starting. The game means nothing and it should not decide who our backup is going forward.

[J. Kapp 11]

At the top of the class, I think we have to add Dalvin Cook. I mean ... dang! That run reminded me of a young AP. When he split those two defenders, he showed serious burst. And is it me, or does he look bigger? If he can stay healthy, he's gonna be a beast.

Definitely justifiable. I didn't include him because of the low number of reps and the fact that it was a very well blocked play. In other words, I want to avoid the temptation to give rave reviews to a guy because a play resulted in 85 yards, but he did look good and he does look a bit bigger.

Ah ... look at the play again. It was well blocked, but it was Cook's vision and burst that made it happen. The play was supposed to go left, but one of the beautiful things about zone blocking is that the wave goes one way, and if the back has vision, it will often open up backside. Cook saw it and cut back right. Then once he got to the second level, two DBs had the angle on him, but he was just too explosive. He split them and took it to the house.

Definitely the limited reps would be a reason. But jeez, that one play was the best run we've seen in Minnesota since AP.

Here's what I didn't understand. What happened to play action? I just watched back the entire first half, and there was not a single play-action pass when Cousins was under center (one play-action pass in the shotgun, but it was just show-me). I thought the big thing with the Stefanski/Kubiak system was play-action.

[Rhodes Closed]

Wait, Cousins's uncle passed away before the game? That's completely understandable why he would not look as good as he usually does. Dick Woodward was a great player and I'm sure Kirk wasn't in the right frame of mind.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Wait, Cousins's uncle passed away before the game? That's completely understandable why he would not look as good as he usually does. Dick Woodward was a great player and I'm sure Kirk wasn't in the right frame of mind.

Yeah literally happened the morning of the game

I mean Zim also said too that they do zero “game planning” for these games. They are just going out calling plays and playing situational football. They aren’t studying Arizona’s tendencies, offense, defense, etc. They just play and they play with their playbook barely open. Cousins could go 3-13 or 13-13, it literally means nothing given the circumstances. And I can guarantee not having thielen in there (who he was practicing with all week) threw a wrench into things. If thielen was injured and they were giving another guy reps that’s one thing. But that wasn’t the case. Thielen simply told Zim that day he was sore so he kept him out as a precaution. He practiced all week

[Passepartout]

Yeah as Kirk just had his mind on other things. Very importantly, not the game itself.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Yeah as Kirk just had his mind on other things. Very importantly, not the game itself.

I mean granted Favre pulled it off when his father passed but again, completely different scenario. When someone you’re that close with passes hours before a preseason game, the last thing I’d be thinking about is that game

[Purple Martin]

Grand uncle. His grandfathers brother.

[808vikingsfan]

It’s a preseason game. Cousins is arguably one of the more accurate QBs in the league but he goes 3-13 one time in a meaningless game and fans are panicking? Stump doesn’t even like cousins but is level headed enough to not worry about that.

Meaningless game? Usually the 3rd preseason is the dress rehersal for the regular season. They gameplan a bit more (both sides of the ball), the 1s usually play the entire first half. In fact, I'd have to argue that the 3rd preseason game means the most out of all the games. And no one is panicking. We're just stating the facts. Cousins stunk it up yesterday.

And not making excuses for cousins but Thielen didn’t play and cousins uncle passed away hours before the game. Either way, take the game with a grain of salt. We hardly open the playbook in these games, players are resting, etc. I think Zim has lost like 2 preseason games since he’s been here but what does that mean in the end? Nothing. No different than cousins performance yesterday. It means nothing.

So in the NO game, I read multiple comments on how sharp Cousins looked and how much different the offense looks with Kubiak. Now that Cousins couldn't make one decent pass, we're saying take it with a grain of salt? If the preseason means nothing, we should be saying that no matter how Cousins does. There always seems to be an excuse for Cousins, even when he was with the Redskins.

And enough with the Sloter train. He lights up 3rd teamers, good for him. Sure he’s intriguing but let’s be real, if the guy was THAT good, he’d be on the field somewhere. I like his confidence and swagger but I’m not gonna sit here and say the guy is the future.

He lights up whatever is in front of him so far. And are you saying every good player gets his chance in the NFL? That draft position has no bearing on opportunity or playing time? Did you read his story? It's pretty intriguing. You'll find out how a coaching change led him try out for WR just to get PT and finally transferring from USM to NCO to get a chance at a starting QB position. How when he finally got his chance to start, he threw for 6 TDs and ran for 1. And how on his last collegiate game, he threw for 6 TDs again. How there were a few mixups during his pro day so he never recorded his best numbers. How he scored a 38 on the wonderlic. Of all people PHP, you should be the very one that knows not all talent gets noticed and that this talent becomes hard to expose if they don't get drafted in a certain round.

Either way, it’s preseason. Baker mayfield played worse than cousins the other day. Does that mean he should be benched or is going to have a rough year because of that? No. These games carry little weight

Don't care what Mayfield did. But if he doesn't elevate his team to its potential and there maybe someone else on the team that could, then yes, I think benching him sometime during the season or at least have him fight for the starting spot next season would be fair. But in Mayfield's case, he's already helped a winless team win 7 games in 2018. If Cousins helped improve the team just a little from 2017 , there'd be no argument at all. IMO, Cousins has not shown with the 1s what Sloter has done with the 3's You can just see it on the field. Sloter moves well in the pocket, looks calm under pressure, has a canon of an arm with touch, a quick release, very mobile, and he brings an energy to the team that I have yet to see from Cousins. One seems be trying too hard, and the other looks like a natural. I'm not saying Sloter is ready to start but I do think he has way more potential than Cousins if someone is willing to invest in him and take a chance. Unfortunately, I just don't see Zimmer as the type of coach that would take that chance unless his hand is forced.

IMO, Cousins is out of excuses. If he doesn't produce wins this year, I'd say the Vikings need to take a different direction, even if they have to eat the $29M next year.

[J. Kapp 11]

I don't recall anyone stating that Sloter should be starting. Sloter has earned an opportunity to play with the 2s at least, and maybe even start a preseason game. Give him a chance to compete for the #2 slot, that's all anyone is asking.

I think the problem with Sloter is that he (allegedly) doesn't perform as well in practice. Mike Zimmer has been quoted as saying, "Sloter’s been a guy that hasn’t looked very good in practice and he’s played pretty good in games." You can be pretty sure that's not just Zimmer's opinion. He talks details every day with his coaches. It's just that Zimmer is the guy who makes the public comments.

It's interesting because Sloter blames the media for the "bad practice player" narrative. He tweeted recently, “The whole practice debate from some of these ‘professional analysts’ is laughable. Act like you know what’s going on.’’

Only problem is that his coaches are the ones saying it to the media, so I'm not sure how he can blame the media. If anything, the media promotes the legend of Kyle Sloter, Preseason MVP. Paul Allen wouldn't shut up about it during Saturday's broadcast.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Meaningless game? Usually the 3rd preseason is the dress rehersal for the regular season. They gameplan a bit more (both sides of the ball), the 1s usually play the entire first half. In fact, I'd have to argue that the 3rd preseason game means the most out of all the games. And no one is panicking. We're just stating the facts. Cousins stunk it up yesterday.

Zim literally said in his presser after the game that they do not game plan for these games at all. Came from his mouth, not mine.

So in the NO game, I read multiple comments on how sharp Cousins looked and how much different the offense looks with Kubiak. Now that Cousins couldn't make one decent pass, we're saying take it with a grain of salt? If the preseason means nothing, we should be saying that no matter how Cousins does. There always seems to be an excuse for Cousins, even when he was with the Redskins.

He did have a dart over the middle to Diggs. And yeah I literally said if he goes 3-13 or 13-13 it doesn’t matter in the end. It means nothing. Hardly ever does the guy go 3-13 or anything close to that

He lights up whatever is in front of him so far. And are you saying every good player gets his chance in the NFL? That draft position has no bearing on opportunity or playing time? Did you read his story? It's pretty intriguing. You'll find out how a coaching change led him try out for WR just to get PT and finally transferring from USM to NCO to get a chance at a starting QB position. How when he finally got his chance to start, he threw for 6 TDs and ran for 1. And how on his last collegiate game, he threw for 6 TDs again. How there were a few mixups during his pro day so he never recorded his best numbers. How he scored a 38 on the wonderlic. Of all people PHP, you should be the very one that knows not all talent gets noticed and that this talent becomes hard to expose if they don't get drafted in a certain round.

I would say this team does a pretty good job noticing and finding talent. Thielen, Beebe, Diggs, hunter, Stephen, Harris, etc. He’s lighting up 3rd teamers. What does that prove?

Don't care what Mayfield did. But if he doesn't elevate his team to its potential and there maybe someone else on the team that could, then yes, I think benching him sometime during the season or at least have him fight for the starting spot next season would be fair. But in Mayfield's case, he's already helped a winless team win 7 games in 2018. If Cousins helped improve the team just a little from 2017 , there'd be no argument at all. IMO, Cousins has not shown with the 1s what Sloter has done with the 3's You can just see it on the field. Sloter moves well in the pocket, looks calm under pressure, has a canon of an arm with touch, a quick release, very mobile, and he brings an energy to the team that I have yet to see from Cousins. One seems be trying too hard, and the other looks like a natural. I'm not saying Sloter is ready to start but I do think he has way more potential than Cousins if someone is willing to invest in him and take a chance. Unfortunately, I just don't see Zimmer as the type of coach that would take that chance unless his hand is forced.

IMO, Cousins is out of excuses. If he doesn't produce wins this year, I'd say the Vikings need to take a different direction, even if they have to eat the $29M next year.

Lol dude, mayfield couldn’t go anywhere but up, they literally had 0 wins. We were in the NFC championship. The only way to elevate the team is either making or winning the SB. Mayfield could have won 3 games and that’s an “improvement”. That’s a poor example. I’m not saying cousins should get this excuse or that excuse. But bottom line is, this discussion started because of the preseason game. And it means nothing and has zero significance. That was my point. Guys are already ripping him and the season hasn’t even started. Like I said, nobody talks about him going 10 for 12 prior to that in the preseason. They just talk about the 3-13 game. So if going 10-12 isn’t relevant, why is the 3-13 game. Especially when he’s hardly ever showed inaccuracies like that? They didn’t game plan at all. They never do in these games. It carries zero weight.

[S197]

Yeah Zimmer said in his postgame that they didn’t gameplan or script any plays. That being said, he was pissed with the effort put out. He even said some guys on defense didn’t go into the huddle and thus didn’t even know the play call. That’s pretty infuriating, yeah it’s a preseason game but I really hate that lack of effort and judging by Zimmer face, so did he.

I think he’s right in that these guys on defense have been together so long that they’re a little complacent. Rhodes definitely looked like he was coasting. Pass rush from the 1st team was also poor (Zimmer’s assessment).

[J. Kapp 11]

Yeah Zimmer said in his postgame that they didn’t gameplan or script any plays. That being said, he was pissed with the effort put out. He even said some guys on defense didn’t go into the huddle and thus didn’t even know the play call. That’s pretty infuriating, yeah it’s a preseason game but I really hate that lack of effort and judging by Zimmer face, so did he.

I think he’s right in that these guys on defense have been together so long that they’re a little complacent. Rhodes definitely looked like he was coasting. Pass rush from the 1st team was also poor (Zimmer’s assessment).

That's a solid take.

I personally care very little about outcomes in the preseason. But lack of effort always bothers me, even in the preseason, and especially in Game #3. Certainly the first-team defense seemed to be coasting, and the offense was lackluster in its effort until Sloter and the 3s entered the game.

Offensively, I saw receivers who were getting very little separation (except for Diggs on the go route that Cousins missed). Cousins' 3-for-13 effort isn't concerning to me, just as his 10-for-12 in the first two preseason games didn't excite me. What concerned me was that he was forced to throw to a lot of guys who simply weren't winning their routes. Adam Thielen was held out of this game, which meant guys like Beebe needed to step up. That didn't happen.

As an optimist, I can only chalk it up to being preseason. But I can understand the angst. That was a lackluster effort.