Vikings 2019 Draft Class Review

[J. Kapp 11]

No disrespect intended, but I'm sensing an emotional response to a factual statement.

Yes, I was a big proponent of JDF. I made the breaking down red zone, film study, etc. comments. Guilty as charged. I thought he was the next offensive genius wonder child. And you know what? I was completely wrong about the guy. The dumbest dumba$$ in the room. Dumber than a bag of hammers. I fell for his bullsh!t ... hook, line and sinker.

On the other hand, I was also the first one who blasted JDF on this board when it became obvious the Vikings' offense was becoming a dumpster fire. In doing so, I must've said "I was wrong" about a thousand times. I ate crow, and when that crow got cold, I ate some more. Hence it should be noted, I refuse to sing Kubiak's praises as a Viking until he actually does something as a Viking. Not falling into that trap again.

I'm not saying the Vikings will be great under Kubiak. I'm not saying taking Smith was the right thing to do. I'm simply stating a fact: There's a reason why the Vikings took Irv Smith over a WR3 -- because WR3s under Kubiak rarely get targeted. In other words, the Vikings saw the value of an athletic second tight end as greater than that of a third wide receiver. Don't blame me. I'm just the messenger.

"Don't get bent out of shape" means that we shouldn't assume the Vikings don't know how to scout players simply because they took Smith over Brown. They had their reasons. As fans, we're all free to disagree with those reasons. But they have their reasons.

I think a lot of us were excited about JDF. The Eagles offense was prolific and he did great things with both Foles and Wentz. If that came across as a "told you so" post, that wasn't the intention because I've been plenty wrong about a lot of things.

I understand the pick and I think it will probably be fine. If anything I think the wheels fell off from the incessant trade downs, which was after Smith. I get trading down to snag another pick or two but 12 picks... its a pretty strong indication of not being able to scout late round players. Maybe if this was the first time Rick did this you could make an argument that he did it because the draft was incredibly deep, but he's done it enough that it's clear it's a general strategy. To some degree I buy that no one can assess these late rounders with any degree of accuracy, so in that respect it makes sense, but there's not a whole lot of GMs that make it their goal to continually take 9, 10, 11+ guys in the draft.

As for Kubiak, I think he'll be a good value add but I wouldn't be surprised if the team struggles this year. These scheme changes take time. Especially when you are working with a number of young guys that have little continuity. It's frustrating they wasted last year by neglecting the OL issues but at least they can finally start building now that they have a decent foundation.

I'm tired of rebuilding, rescheming, redrafting, recoaching... I guess I've lost a lot of my patience these last few years.

Totally get it, man. Really do. When I think about the fact that we've had Norv, Shurmur, JDF and Stefanski as OCs in just 5 years under Mike Zimmer, it frustrates the heck out of me. We've also started Bridgewater, Bradford, Keenum and Cousins in that time. We couldn't even sniff anything remotely resembling continuity. Contrast that with the defense, which has played the same scheme for five years. All the players on that side of the ball understand what's going on. It's a stark comparison.

I wouldn't be surprised if they struggle, either. But I also won't be surprised if they are better than we expect, or at least get progressively better as the season goes on. If you can run the football, that almost always travels. The high-wire passing attacks work in September and October, but when the weather gets cold, the more balanced teams tend to survive. The Rams were the perfect example. They had one shootout after another early in the season, but in the playoffs, they struggled to score. In the Super Bowl, they never even got into the red zone.

So the questions follow us once again into 2019. Will Kubiak and Stefanski bring a much-needed measure of efficiency and balance? Will they be able to make the necessary improvements to the offensive line? Will they be able to fully utilize Dalvin Cook? (who was so woefully underutilized last year under JDF that it was completely sad.)

Only time will tell. But one thing I can say ... I'm not singing anybody's praises until they earn praise. Not going down that road again.

[fiestavike]

So the questions follow us once again into 2019. Will Kubiak and Stefanski bring a much-needed measure of efficiency and balance? Will they be able to make the necessary improvements to the offensive line? Will they be able to fully utilize Dalvin Cook? (who was so woefully underutilized last year under JDF that it was completely sad.)

And maybe most important, can they take the things Kirk Cousins does well and put him in a position to succeed? Can they give him quick, orderly options to process, and allow him to use his arm talent within that context? The history of QBs (even rather subpar QBs) in this system suggests that they may be able to do that.

Kirk is not a point guard. He completely wilts in chaotic on field moments. He needs order and organization to thrive. He is the ultimate WASP. If this season goes well, we're going to see Kirk Cousins throw the ball away far more often. He's going to drop back knowing exactly what his reads will be, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and sideline. If the season goes really well, he's going to go full Peyton Manning and simply lie down on those occasions when the protection breaks down.

To be honest, I'm extremely optimistic about the scheme, but I share concern about the execution along the OL. This is why I hope they don't waste too much time in putting together their starting 5. The chaos caused by retirement, injury, shuffling players along the OL during the whole preseason fed into the debacle that was our offensive line last year.

[CharVike]

I think a lot of us were excited about JDF. The Eagles offense was prolific and he did great things with both Foles and Wentz. If that came across as a "told you so" post, that wasn't the intention because I've been plenty wrong about a lot of things.

I understand the pick and I think it will probably be fine. If anything I think the wheels fell off from the incessant trade downs, which was after Smith. I get trading down to snag another pick or two but 12 picks... its a pretty strong indication of not being able to scout late round players. Maybe if this was the first time Rick did this you could make an argument that he did it because the draft was incredibly deep, but he's done it enough that it's clear it's a general strategy. To some degree I buy that no one can assess these late rounders with any degree of accuracy, so in that respect it makes sense, but there's not a whole lot of GMs that make it their goal to continually take 9, 10, 11+ guys in the draft.

As for Kubiak, I think he'll be a good value add but I wouldn't be surprised if the team struggles this year. These scheme changes take time. Especially when you are working with a number of young guys that have little continuity. It's frustrating they wasted last year by neglecting the OL issues but at least they can finally start building now that they have a decent foundation.

I'm tired of rebuilding, rescheming, redrafting, recoaching... I guess I've lost a lot of my patience these last few years.

Totally get it, man. Really do. When I think about the fact that we've had Norv, Shurmur, JDF and Stefanski as OCs in just 5 years under Mike Zimmer, it frustrates the heck out of me. We've also started Bridgewater, Bradford, Keenum and Cousins in that time. We couldn't even sniff anything remotely resembling continuity. Contrast that with the defense, which has played the same scheme for five years. All the players on that side of the ball understand what's going on. It's a stark comparison.

I wouldn't be surprised if they struggle, either. But I also won't be surprised if they are better than we expect, or at least get progressively better as the season goes on. If you can run the football, that almost always travels. The high-wire passing attacks work in September and October, but when the weather gets cold, the more balanced teams tend to survive. The Rams were the perfect example. They had one shootout after another early in the season, but in the playoffs, they struggled to score. In the Super Bowl, they never even got into the red zone.

So the questions follow us once again into 2019. Will Kubiak and Stefanski bring a much-needed measure of efficiency and balance? Will they be able to make the necessary improvements to the offensive line? Will they be able to fully utilize Dalvin Cook? (who was so woefully underutilized last year under JDF that it was completely sad.)

Only time will tell. But one thing I can say ... I'm not singing anybody's praises until they earn praise. Not going down that road again.

JDF was a reach but not many predicted that before hand. They took a chance and it didn't work. Losing Shurmur was a big blow. We didn't have anyone ready to step in. Now the job belongs to Stefanski who is also in way over his head. He's nothing more than a position coach. Should not have been offered the job. That's why Kub was hired because they know Stef isn't ready. He knows he's not ready himself. They just created a cluster F with this dual headed OC. That goes beyond stupid. So we will struggle big time and has an extremely low chance of working which blows. Now the big concern on this board is if teams have Kub figured out. Well of course they do. Teams have every scheme figured out. Kub's scheme has been used by many. This base wuss zone blocking is nothing new. It's pansy football. It's been seen and will continue to be seen. I would like a guy with a brand new scheme and concepts. Something that has never been done before. For example a 5 WR scheme where they line up anywhere as the base O. Get the ball in there hands anyway you can. Pitch it to them ect.. But I'm sure that has been done also. With this two headed BS the entire O will look like a POS. Dalvin Cook is a very good back but I don't see him holding up. He hasn't yet so why should that change? It won't. He needs a good backup and they let him walk out the door. Should have signed Murray and let Barr walk. The entire situation blows and it's too late to fix it now. Start blaming Cousins right now but he don't even know who to turn to for advice. Which OC should I ask. As I stated a cluster F.

[VikingsVictorious]

What I loved about this draft.
Bradbury in the first. He met need and IMO was by far the BPA on our board when we picked him. Very good pass blocker and incredible run blocker. By himself he will elevate our passing and running game about 5 to 10 slots.

Irv Smith in the second. He just fell into our laps. Sure just a little small, but was consensus #3 TE in this draft and with our very likely use of 2 TE sets was a very high need.

Alex Mattison at the very last pick in the third. Looking at the RBs that went after him I do like Benny Snell Jr. possibly better, but considering fit no other RB taken later would have been a better selection IMO. The unbelievable 4 trade downs we made before selecting him gave us draft capital that I think was put to use wisely on day three. The players we passed on to get him McGovern and Cajuste were negated by getting Samia in the 4th and passing on Saunders was negated by getting Watts in the 6th. We could have had Hakeem Butler or Miles Boykin. I think our 7th round pick Mitchell is ballpark as talented as them. He fell because of a report of a BA. Randy Moss fell because of a report of a BA. Please don't say I'm comparing Mitchell to Moss. I'm comparing the reason they slid in the draft.

Our other picks all seemed fine to me.

[Pondering Her Percy]

What I loved about this draft.
Bradbury in the first. He met need and IMO was by far the BPA on our board when we picked him. Very good pass blocker and incredible run blocker. By himself he will elevate our passing and running game about 5 to 10 slots.

Irv Smith in the second. He just fell into our laps. Sure just a little small, but was consensus #3 TE in this draft and with our very likely use of 2 TE sets was a very high need.

Alex Mattison at the very last pick in the third. Looking at the RBs that went after him I do like Benny Snell Jr. possibly better, but considering fit no other RB taken later would have been a better selection IMO. The unbelievable 4 trade downs we made before selecting him gave us draft capital that I think was put to use wisely on day three. The players we passed on to get him McGovern and Cajuste were negated by getting Samia in the 4th and passing on Saunders was negated by getting Watts in the 6th. We could have had Hakeem Butler or Miles Boykin. I think our 7th round pick Mitchell is ballpark as talented as them. He fell because of a report of a BA. Randy Moss fell because of a report of a BA. Please don't say I'm comparing Mitchell to Moss. I'm comparing the reason they slid in the draft.

Our other picks all seemed fine to me.

Good post, I agree. Watts and Mitchell are definitely my two sleepers as well. I thought it was an excellent draft. The biggest gripe was guys being mad about not taking a WR until the 7th. But Mitchell is great value. These guys know a lot more than we do. They knew about guys that we dont even know exist. I trust they know what they are doing with their drafting and how this team is going to look. And at this point in the offseason, thats all you can really do is either trust them or not. We'll know more come September

[S197]

The knock on Mitchell seems to be his work ethic. Seen some scouts say he needs to take his training/practice more seriously. Perhaps that will come with age.

[VikingsVictorious]

The knock on Mitchell seems to be his work ethic. Seen some scouts say he needs to take his training/practice more seriously. Perhaps that will come with age.

That is what some people say. It may be true, but his work ethic got 75 receptions for 1184 yards and 10 TDs so I can't believe it was all that bad.

[S197]

The knock on Mitchell seems to be his work ethic. Seen some scouts say he needs to take his training/practice more seriously. Perhaps that will come with age.

That is what some people say. It may be true, but his work ethic got 75 receptions for 1184 yards and 10 TDs so I can't believe it was all that bad.

He's certainly an intriguing prospect. I don't think he gets those numbers in a different offense or playing in the SEC, but it's a good flier pick.

[VikingsVictorious]

That is what some people say. It may be true, but his work ethic got 75 receptions for 1184 yards and 10 TDs so I can't believe it was all that bad.

He's certainly an intriguing prospect. I don't think he gets those numbers in a different offense or playing in the SEC, but it's a good flier pick.

I personally think he's a lot better than a flier. I would call him a steal. I'm sticking my neck out for him. I believe he should instantly be our #3 WR. Maybe my neck gets chopped off, but that is what I believe.

[CharVike]

He's certainly an intriguing prospect. I don't think he gets those numbers in a different offense or playing in the SEC, but it's a good flier pick.

I personally think he's a lot better than a flier. I would call him a steal. I'm sticking my neck out for him. I believe he should instantly be our #3 WR. Maybe my neck gets chopped off, but that is what I believe.

I don't see him as an instant #3 WR. If he makes the practice squad I would be surprised. The guy fell for a reason. Maybe the stats were against a bunch of garbage and mean nothing.

[VikingsVictorious]

I personally think he's a lot better than a flier. I would call him a steal. I'm sticking my neck out for him. I believe he should instantly be our #3 WR. Maybe my neck gets chopped off, but that is what I believe.

I don't see him as an instant #3 WR. If he makes the practice squad I would be surprised. The guy fell for a reason. Maybe the stats were against a bunch of garbage and mean nothing.

75 Catches, 1184 yards, 10 TDs. I know the PAC12 isn't known for great D, but it is a major conference. He actually got almost all his stats in Conference. The first three games against non conference cupcakes he wasn't featured. He is also 6'1 and ran a quite good, but not sensational 4.46. Those stats aren't garbage and considering he's a Viking I don't know why you would try to denigrate him like that. He fell because somebody who wasn't one of his coaches or teammates said he had a bad work ethic. This was disputed by his coaches and teammates. Hey you cheer for him to fail and I will cheer for him to succeed.

[Texas Vike]

I don't see him as an instant #3 WR. If he makes the practice squad I would be surprised. The guy fell for a reason. Maybe the stats were against a bunch of garbage and mean nothing.

75 Catches, 1184 yards, 10 TDs. I know the PAC12 isn't known for great D, but it is a major conference. He actually got almost all his stats in Conference. The first three games against non conference cupcakes he wasn't featured. He is also 6'1 and ran a quite good, but not sensational 4.46. Those stats aren't garbage and considering he's a Viking I don't know why you would try to denigrate him like that. He fell because somebody who wasn't one of his coaches or teammates said he had a bad work ethic. This was disputed by his coaches and teammates. Hey you cheer for him to fail and I will cheer for him to succeed.

I fall between the two extremes that you two represent. I think he'll make the active roster, but may not see the field until late in the season. I'd love it if he can beat out Treadwell, though, who never saw a 3rd down easy catch that he didn't love to drop.

[CharVike]

I don't see him as an instant #3 WR. If he makes the practice squad I would be surprised. The guy fell for a reason. Maybe the stats were against a bunch of garbage and mean nothing.

75 Catches, 1184 yards, 10 TDs. I know the PAC12 isn't known for great D, but it is a major conference. He actually got almost all his stats in Conference. The first three games against non conference cupcakes he wasn't featured. He is also 6'1 and ran a quite good, but not sensational 4.46. Those stats aren't garbage and considering he's a Viking I don't know why you would try to denigrate him like that. He fell because somebody who wasn't one of his coaches or teammates said he had a bad work ethic. This was disputed by his coaches and teammates. Hey you cheer for him to fail and I will cheer for him to succeed.

Were did I state I want him to fail? Why make stuff up. The bottom line is the guy is a 7th round pick. The chance of making the team are slim. Perhaps I'm wrong and most make it and are instant starters. But look it up first before stating I'm wrong. But your on a wet dream thinking this stiff will come in and be an instant starter. He'll be lucky to make the team and even luckier to make the practice squad. The guy didn't get a sniff early because he lacks the talent level. Even in an extremely weak WR class he didn't get a sniff early. Not because of work ethic. Moss was passed on because of his attitude and other issues including drugs. He didn't slip to round 7 because the guy was a freak athlete. His combination of speed and ball skills were never seen before. A bad work ethic never pushed an elite player to round 7. I'm wrong about that to. Bottom line I hope he's the next Jerry Rice. But he doesn't have that talent level and I don't expect that to happen. But I'll pray it does because we need another WR badly. One of our starters always misses time. That will happen again this year like it has all years. Hope you understand that better. Also many on here wanted Butler. The guy can't catch a football. That's why teams skipped on him and why he was off our board. Why would a team want a WR that can't catch?

[VikingsVictorious]

75 Catches, 1184 yards, 10 TDs. I know the PAC12 isn't known for great D, but it is a major conference. He actually got almost all his stats in Conference. The first three games against non conference cupcakes he wasn't featured. He is also 6'1 and ran a quite good, but not sensational 4.46. Those stats aren't garbage and considering he's a Viking I don't know why you would try to denigrate him like that. He fell because somebody who wasn't one of his coaches or teammates said he had a bad work ethic. This was disputed by his coaches and teammates. Hey you cheer for him to fail and I will cheer for him to succeed.

Were did I state I want him to fail? Why make stuff up. The bottom line is the guy is a 7th round pick. The chance of making the team are slim. Perhaps I'm wrong and most make it and are instant starters. But look it up first before stating I'm wrong. But your on a wet dream thinking this stiff will come in and be an instant starter. He'll be lucky to make the team and even luckier to make the practice squad. The guy didn't get a sniff early because he lacks the talent level. Even in an extremely weak WR class he didn't get a sniff early. Not because of work ethic. Moss was passed on because of his attitude and other issues including drugs. He didn't slip to round 7 because the guy was a freak athlete. His combination of speed and ball skills were never seen before. A bad work ethic never pushed an elite player to round 7. I'm wrong about that to. Bottom line I hope he's the next Jerry Rice. But he doesn't have that talent level and I don't expect that to happen. But I'll pray it does because we need another WR badly. One of our starters always misses time. That will happen again this year like it has all years. Hope you understand that better. Also many on here wanted Butler. The guy can't catch a football. That's why teams skipped on him and why he was off our board. Why would a team want a WR that can't catch?

No you didn't say you want him to fail, but it seems like you take a lot of enjoyment in cutting him down. Not all 7th round picks are created the same. If you base your entire criterion for how well a player will do on the round he is drafted then you obviously aren't thinking for yourself. Last year despite great production and measurables (other than size) Phillip Lindsay went undrafted. According to your round picked logic he shouldn't have made a team. However, he not only made a team, but played great. I couldn't believe that a player with his talent went undrafted and it turned out I was right about him and all 32 NFL teams that didn't draft him were wrong about him. I thought for myself and saw a very good football player. I have a similar view of Mitchell. I think he did fall in the draft due to negative reports on him. Maybe there is something to those negative reports because he got in a ridiculous Twitter war with Akili Smith. However, thinking for myself I can see that he has the talent needed to be better than any WR on the Vikings not named Thielen or Diggs. So I'm taking a stand that despite the round he got drafted he is plenty talented to be an NFL WR and even good enough to get a decent amount of snaps.

As for Butler he has size, speed, and production despite the drops. A guy who can't catch doesn't have 101 receptions for 2015 yards and 16 TDs over those two years with the 19 drops. I personally think all things considered he got drafted where he should have. Do you know he wasn't on the Vikings draft board or was he maybe on our board, but got drafted before he came to the top of our board.

[CharVike]

Were did I state I want him to fail? Why make stuff up. The bottom line is the guy is a 7th round pick. The chance of making the team are slim. Perhaps I'm wrong and most make it and are instant starters. But look it up first before stating I'm wrong. But your on a wet dream thinking this stiff will come in and be an instant starter. He'll be lucky to make the team and even luckier to make the practice squad. The guy didn't get a sniff early because he lacks the talent level. Even in an extremely weak WR class he didn't get a sniff early. Not because of work ethic. Moss was passed on because of his attitude and other issues including drugs. He didn't slip to round 7 because the guy was a freak athlete. His combination of speed and ball skills were never seen before. A bad work ethic never pushed an elite player to round 7. I'm wrong about that to. Bottom line I hope he's the next Jerry Rice. But he doesn't have that talent level and I don't expect that to happen. But I'll pray it does because we need another WR badly. One of our starters always misses time. That will happen again this year like it has all years. Hope you understand that better. Also many on here wanted Butler. The guy can't catch a football. That's why teams skipped on him and why he was off our board. Why would a team want a WR that can't catch?

No you didn't say you want him to fail, but it seems like you take a lot of enjoyment in cutting him down. Not all 7th round picks are created the same. If you base your entire criterion for how well a player will do on the round he is drafted then you obviously aren't thinking for yourself. Last year despite great production and measurables (other than size) Phillip Lindsay went undrafted. According to your round picked logic he shouldn't have made a team. However, he not only made a team, but played great. I couldn't believe that a player with his talent went undrafted and it turned out I was right about him and all 32 NFL teams that didn't draft him were wrong about him. I thought for myself and saw a very good football player. I have a similar view of Mitchell. I think he did fall in the draft due to negative reports on him. Maybe there is something to those negative reports because he got in a ridiculous Twitter war with Akili Smith. However, thinking for myself I can see that he has the talent needed to be better than any WR on the Vikings not named Thielen or Diggs. So I'm taking a stand that despite the round he got drafted he is plenty talented to be an NFL WR and even good enough to get a decent amount of snaps.

As for Butler he has size, speed, and production despite the drops. I personally think all things considered he got drafted where he should have. Do you know he wasn't on the Vikings draft board or was he maybe on our board, but got drafted before he came to the top of our board.

You make good points and obviously did some research which takes time. There have been many undrafted guys that became very good players like our John Randle. I hope the guy sticks and contributes. There is no reason for me not to want that. We need a 3rd guy badly because we are paper thin at WR and don't have a good one at this point for the 3 role. I said on another post that I like our TE Conklin who we drafted in round 5 last year and I very much liked the pick. I felt he could take Rudy's spot. I got slammed some for that. Which is ok because we all have an opinion. In the end you did the research and I appreciate your speculation. I also hope he can step in quickly.