2nd round pick- Vikings select Irv Smith- TE Alabama

[Pondering Her Percy]

The WR because
1. We will pass more than run this season

99% of teams do. However, that's not a valid reason why you should draft a WR over a RB though. I could guarantee there isnt a single team in the NFL that says "hey lets pick this guy at WR because we will pass more than run this year". Zero chance

2. When the team is losing that double tight nonsense goes out the window and we go 3 wide. We're in trouble if this happens, we're praying an unknown steps in.

Ok? And how often are we going to be feeding him the ball regardless when you have Thielen and Diggs plus one TE out there? Oh and either Cook or Mattison who are both great at catching the ball. Was Jarius Wright a "known" #3? He made a clutch third down catch once every 2-3 games. He had 18 catches in 2017. That's barely over 1 catch a game. So we should draft a WR in the 3rd so we can get one catch a game out of him? I can guarantee Mattison will be carrying the ball more than 1 time a game. And chances are, catching the ball more than 1 time a game. I mean Latavius Murray caught 22 balls last year. 4 more than Wright did in 2017. Bottom line is, who's going to be touching the ball more, the #2 RB or #3 WR? It's the #2 RB. And that's exactly what it comes down to. Not, we're going to pass more this year. That literally doesnt matter. We pass more every year and guys drooled over Wright all for what....a whopping 18 catches? Woohoo. Let's waste a 3rd round pick just so a WR can bring us 18 catches. Dalvin Cook could start the entire year and be healthy all season, and Alexander Mattison is still going to touch the ball more than Jarius Wright did in 2017. The more you touch the ball, the more you have a chance to make plays. The more chances to make plays, the more points scored. The more points scored, the more wins for the Vikings. Simple as that.

3. Rookie TEs have taken time to become acclimated to the league.

Huh? There is arguably no position in the NFL that has a harder time getting acclimated than WRs and CBs. That's been a fact all over the league for quite some time now. Not saying TEs dont have trouble but they arent anywhere near the struggle of rookie WRs.

Also, I'm not assuming we had to take him in the 7th. Maybe we take him in the 4th or we take Butler and Sumia and Ryquell Armstead in the 5th. IMO, Butler and Armstead I better for this team than Mattison. Also, I don't base his lack of top end speed on his combine, I base it on his lack of long runs against poor comp. 9 runs out of 300+ went for more than 15. You maybe right about his quickness to the hole. The tap show that.

lol come on man, now you're just digging. Literally all you did after we drafted him was say how he was slow THEN come Sunday when you dug up some dirt on him, you chimed in saying he only have 9 runs over 15 yards. Let's not play dumb here. You didnt find that statistic out until well after the fact. You based your initial assumption off of a 40 time. And Armstead? The guy literally cannot catch the ball. He only hit double digit catches 1 year out of 4 in college. And that one year was only 14 catches. His other years were 2, 5 and 8 catches. He brings nothing to the passing game. Mattison was catching nearly 30 balls a year. Armstead is a one dimensional back. Mattison is not.

[YikesVikes]

99% of teams do. However, that's not a valid reason why you should draft a WR over a RB though. I could guarantee there isnt a single team in the NFL that says "hey lets pick this guy at WR because we will pass more than run this year". Zero chance

You asked for a reason that a #3 is more important than a back up RB. I am giving you several. No one said a team would draft guy A over guy B becuase they pass more. Teams draft and pass on players for a multitude of reasons. Having a 3rd WR makes the offense more flexible in addition to the addition of Smith.

Ok? And how often are we going to be feeding him the ball regardless when you have Thielen and Diggs plus one TE out there? Oh and either Cook or Mattison who are both great at catching the ball. Was Jarius Wright a "known" #3? He made a clutch third down catch once every 2-3 games. He had 18 catches in 2017. That's barely over 1 catch a game. So we should draft a WR in the 3rd so we can get one catch a game out of him?

Jarius Wright wasn't our 3rd in 2017. Treadwell went above him. Last season as a 3rd WR (almost 4th given McCaffery's skillset) he had 43 receptions. That's not considering injury. Your 3rd WR becomes a starter if one goes down. You do all this planning for Cook's injury but then your projection of usage for WRs is hoping none of them get hurt.

We pass more every year and guys drooled over Wright all for what....a whopping 18 catches? Woohoo. Let's waste a 3rd round pick just so a WR can bring us 18 catches. Dalvin Cook could start the entire year and be healthy all season, and Alexander Mattison is still going to touch the ball more than Jarius Wright did in 2017. The more you touch the ball, the more you have a
chance to make plays. The more chances to make plays, the more points scored. The more points scored, the more wins for the
Vikings. Simple as that.

You seem caught up on Wright when I am talking about the direction the league is heading in. The top teams are heavily invested in RB and 3 WRs (draft and/or capital). These teams tend to be the top offenses as well. We have not and we will continue to be a step behind them offensively.

Huh? There is arguably no position in the NFL that has a harder time getting acclimated than WRs and CBs. That's been a fact all over the league for quite some time now. Not saying TEs dont have trouble but they arent anywhere near the struggle of rookie WRs.

Strawman argument. My statement was addressing the fact that everyone expects Smith to step in and be this great player, when history has shown that TEs struggle. I can point to a first-year WR that has excelled. It is very hard to do the same for a TE.

lol come on man, now you're just digging. Literally, all you did after we drafted him was say how he was slow THEN come Sunday when you dug up some dirt on him, you chimed in saying he only have 9 runs over 15 yards. Let's not play dumb here. You didn't find that statistic out until well after the fact. You based your initial assumption off of a 40 time. And Armstead? The guy literally cannot catch the ball. He only hit double-digit catches 1 year out of 4 in college. And that one year was only 14 catches. His other years were 2, 5 and 8 catches. He brings nothing to the passing game. Mattison was catching nearly 30 balls a year. Armstead is a one dimensional back. Mattison is not.

You just said that ALLLLLLL that is being said about him is he is slow because of his 40 time. I am pointing out to you that his 40 time Anddddddd his lack of long runs is what I have based my statement on. Are you really going to say the Sunday after a Sat draft is after the fact? You're acting like I brought this up yesterday. When did you bring up your 3rd WR stat?

[VikingsVictorious]

99% of teams do. However, that's not a valid reason why you should draft a WR over a RB though. I could guarantee there isnt a single team in the NFL that says "hey lets pick this guy at WR because we will pass more than run this year". Zero chance

You asked for a reason that a #3 is more important than a back up RB. I am giving you several. No one said a team would draft guy A over guy B becuase they pass more. Teams draft and pass on players for a multitude of reasons. Having a 3rd WR makes the offense more flexible in addition to the addition of Smith.

Ok? And how often are we going to be feeding him the ball regardless when you have Thielen and Diggs plus one TE out there? Oh and either Cook or Mattison who are both great at catching the ball. Was Jarius Wright a "known" #3? He made a clutch third down catch once every 2-3 games. He had 18 catches in 2017. That's barely over 1 catch a game. So we should draft a WR in the 3rd so we can get one catch a game out of him?

Jarius Wright wasn't our 3rd in 2017. Treadwell went above him. Last season as a 3rd WR (almost 4th given McCaffery's skillset) he had 43 receptions. That's not considering injury. Your 3rd WR becomes a starter if one goes down. You do all this planning for Cook's injury but then your projection of usage for WRs is hoping none of them get hurt.

We pass more every year and guys drooled over Wright all for what....a whopping 18 catches? Woohoo. Let's waste a 3rd round pick just so a WR can bring us 18 catches. Dalvin Cook could start the entire year and be healthy all season, and Alexander Mattison is still going to touch the ball more than Jarius Wright did in 2017. The more you touch the ball, the more you have a
chance to make plays. The more chances to make plays, the more points scored. The more points scored, the more wins for the
Vikings. Simple as that.

You seem caught up on Wright when I am talking about the direction the league is heading in. The top teams are heavily invested in RB and 3 WRs (draft and/or capital). These teams tend to be the top offenses as well. We have not and we will continue to be a step behind them offensively.

Huh? There is arguably no position in the NFL that has a harder time getting acclimated than WRs and CBs. That's been a fact all over the league for quite some time now. Not saying TEs dont have trouble but they arent anywhere near the struggle of rookie WRs.

Strawman argument. My statement was addressing the fact that everyone expects Smith to step in and be this great player, when history has shown that TEs struggle. I can point to a first-year WR that has excelled. It is very hard to do the same for a TE.

lol come on man, now you're just digging. Literally, all you did after we drafted him was say how he was slow THEN come Sunday when you dug up some dirt on him, you chimed in saying he only have 9 runs over 15 yards. Let's not play dumb here. You didn't find that statistic out until well after the fact. You based your initial assumption off of a 40 time. And Armstead? The guy literally cannot catch the ball. He only hit double-digit catches 1 year out of 4 in college. And that one year was only 14 catches. His other years were 2, 5 and 8 catches. He brings nothing to the passing game. Mattison was catching nearly 30 balls a year. Armstead is a one dimensional back. Mattison is not.

You just said that ALLLLLLL that is being said about him is he is slow because of his 40 time. I am pointing out to you that his 40 time Anddddddd his lack of long runs is what I have based my statement on. Are you really going to say the Sunday after a Sat draft is after the fact? You're acting like I brought this up yesterday. When did you bring up your 3rd WR stat?

Butler is intriguing as a high potential WR. He also has a lot of problems with drops. Regardless I like him. However if this offense is ran the way Kubiak offenses have been run in the past, Butler would be expected to get just over one catch per game. Let's say he exceeds all reasonable expectations and catches two passes a game. It's still much more important to get a #2 RB. To me that is the end of the story. We still got a high potential WR in the 7th.

[fiestavike]

Butler is intriguing as a high potential WR. He also has a lot of problems with drops. Regardless I like him. However if this offense is ran the way Kubiak offenses have been run in the past, Butler would be expected to get just over one catch per game. Let's say he exceeds all reasonable expectations and catches two passes a game. It's still much more important to get a #2 RB. To me that is the end of the story. We still got a high potential WR in the 7th.

I agree, and I think Mattison will allow this team the cap flexibility to let Cook walk in two years, which might be what allows them to retain an O'Neill or an Alexander, etc. He's also going to be a massive upgrade over Murray this year as a short yardage back, or in the case of another injury to Cook.

[Pondering Her Percy]

You asked for a reason that a #3 is more important than a back up RB. I am giving you several. No one said a team would draft guy A over guy B becuase they pass more. Teams draft and pass on players for a multitude of reasons. Having a 3rd WR makes the offense more flexible in addition to the addition of Smith.

Trying to push for a reason to draft a #3 WR is one thing.... in a pass happy offense. But listing reasons when history shows #3 WRs arent very successful in Kubiak's system, doesnt carry much weight.

Jarius Wright wasn't our 3rd in 2017. Treadwell went above him. Last season as a 3rd WR (almost 4th given McCaffery's skillset) he had 43 receptions. That's not considering injury. Your 3rd WR becomes a starter if one goes down. You do all this planning for Cook's injury but then your projection of usage for WRs is hoping none of them get hurt.

What do you think your #2 RB becomes if your starter goes down? How is that any different? Like I said in a previous post, we have been much more successful when we lose a guy like Diggs or Thielen for a few games than if we lose a guy like Adrian Peterson and have to resort to Matt Asiata.

Thielen hasnt missed a game since taking over (2+ seasons). Diggs has missed 9 games and we are 7-2 in those games. And that's with the Laquon Treadwell's and Jarius Wright's of the world as our #3. We showed last year that we cant get to where we wanna go if we dont have a running game. We're always going to have a passing game with Kirk Cousins here. We thought we were golden last year with Cook and Murray and we were one of the worst in the league due to neglecting the running game. We have had a good enough passing game over the last few years to still be successful if we lose a WR for some time. The running game has been all over the place. Again, if we didnt have solid backups behind Cook in 2017, we'd be lucky to make the playoffs. The Murray/McKinnon combo is what kept that 2017 offense churning. Not Jarius Wright or Laquon Treadwell.

You seem caught up on Wright when I am talking about the direction the league is heading in. The top teams are heavily invested in RB and 3 WRs (draft and/or capital). These teams tend to be the top offenses as well. We have not and we will continue to be a step behind them offensively.

You say they are heavily invested at RB but are also ticked that we took Mattison in the 3rd? That is investing in a RB. No less one that can run AND catch the ball. As for other teams and their investment at WR:

Top 10 offenses in the NFL in 2018 (#3 WRs statistically or intent):

Kansas City: 3rd round pick (Conley)....way back in 2015 and has done very little in 4 years.

LA Rams: 3rd round pick (Kupp)

Tampa Bay: UDFA (Humphries)

Pittsburgh: 3rd round pick (Washington).....knowing Brown could be a goner.

New England: they couldnt have invested less into WRs up to 2018

Atlanta: 1st round pick (Ridley)

Indy: Dontelle Inman....say no more

New Orleans: Ted Ginn/Keith Kirkwood

Baltimore: Willie Snead

Carolina: Jarius Wright/Curtis Samuel


....Now when you look at these guys compared to their teams #2 RB, who is more valuable?

KC- Damien Williams/Spencer Ware vs Chris Conley (considering before Hunt got in trouble)......easily their RBs

LA Rams: CJ Anderson vs Cooper Kupp.....this was a close one given how Gurley (an injury riddled RB) ended the year and how Anderson carried them in the playoffs. Kupp ended up blowing his knee out but there offense really wasnt too effected by losing him either......I go with Anderson being more valuable in this situation.

Tampa Bay: Humphries vs Jacquizz Rodgers/Ronald Jones....obviously Humphries given how bad Tampa's run game was but it also didnt help them get out of the gutter.

Pittsburgh: James Washington vs. James Conner..... no brainer here, Conner.

New England: Phillip Dorsett vs James White/Rex Burkhead.....also a no brainer. White/Burkhead

Atlanta: Ridley vs. Coleman....also a tough call but I'll give it to Ridley given they let Coleman walk this year (even though he wouldnt have resigned anyways because he knew he could start somewhere). They also drafted Ito Smith in the 4th because they knew they could lose Coleman this offseason.

Indy: Dontelle Inman vs Nyheim Hines/Jordan Wilkins......Hines and Wilkins by a mile

New Orleans: Ted Ginn/Keith Kirkwood vs Mark Ingram.....couldnt be more lobsided

Baltimore: Willie Snead vs Gus Edwards/Dixon.....neither are great but Snead is a decent WR on a team that cant pass and Edwards blossomed at years end.....I'll go with a wash here.

Carolina: Jarius Wright/Curtis Samuel vs Cameron Artis Payne......obviously Wright/Samuel here since nobody really carried the ball outside of McCaffery last year.


......In the end, out of the top 10 total offenses in the NFL, 7+ offenses relied on their #2 RB more than they did their #3 WR. And two of the teams that relied on their #3 more, were mostly because their running games were so pitiful (Atlanta and Tampa Bay).


Strawman argument. My statement was addressing the fact that everyone expects Smith to step in and be this great player, when history has shown that TEs struggle. I can point to a first-year WR that has excelled. It is very hard to do the same for a TE.

Travis Kelce? He was put on IR early his rookie year and never played a game but his first year playing he exploded. Gronk, Hunter Henry, Aaron Hernandez. I mean it happens. No different than it happens with WRs. Early round WRs as of late outside of the Odell class, has not been great. You dont see them bloom until their 2nd-3rd year.

You just said that ALLLLLLL that is being said about him is he is slow because of his 40 time. I am pointing out to you that his 40 time Anddddddd his lack of long runs is what I have based my statement on. Are you really going to say the Sunday after a Sat draft is after the fact? You're acting like I brought this up yesterday. When did you bring up your 3rd WR stat?

My point is, you had no clue about that stat you dug up until after we drafted him. You initially saw the 40 time and then dug to find any other dirt you could. But I have proved multiple times that combine numbers mean nothing. Whatever cherry picked stat you can find to try and say he wasnt productive in college feel free but the tape and the success doesnt lie.

[YikesVikes]

You win. Your post has too many issues to try to respond to. It was overwhelming. You counted CJ Anderson on the Rams as a heavy investment. You made my damn point and I quit because of that. You skipped over the point where I highlighted that heavy investment was both CAP and draft capital. The facts remain, you will continue to argue and bend things to make it fit for you. Like you believe that this will be only a Kubiak offense. Like Kevin has no space on it. None of us know what this offense will be like but you seem to believe it will only be 2 TE. You win.

[Pondering Her Percy]

You win. Your post has too many issues to try to respond to. It was overwhelming. You counted CJ Anderson on the Rams as a heavy investment. You made my damn point and I quit because of that. You skipped over the point where I highlighted that heavy investment was both CAP and draft capital. The facts remain, you will continue to argue and bend things to make it fit for you. Like you believe that this will be only a Kubiak offense. Like Kevin has no space on it. None of us know what this offense will be like but you seem to believe it will only be 2 TE. You win.

lol ok. I never once said Anderson was a "heavy" investment. I was stressing what was more valuable on these teams. And it ended up coming out to be #2 RB vs. #3 WR. Bottom line is, you didnt get your guy in Butler and you cant get over it. That's you bending and making things fit for you. You're going to sit there and continue to ignore that a #3 WR in this offense is going to average about 20 catches per year. There are just too many mouths to feed when you're running a lot of 2 TE sets, turning into a run first team and have two elite WRs on the outside. A 3rd WR just doesnt fit in there well. If you're someone like the Rams who run the ball and use their top 3 WRs then yeah. The Rams arent a TE heavy team. Or the Falcons who use their TE and top 3 WRs heavy and hardly run the ball. In every offense you look at, there is a position that isnt touching the ball much. With us, it's going to be that 3rd WR. I dont understand why that is so hard to see. This isnt a Sean McVay offense. I mean, it's not even a Flip offense anymore. This offense doesnt need some big investment at #3 WR in order to succeed. Where was New Orleans investment at WR leading up to last year? Or New Englands? Or Indys? I can keep going. The Saints had Mark Ingram and Adrian Peterson in their backfield and took Kamara in the 3rd round. The Patriots were 10th and 7th in total rush offense prior to taking Sony Michel in the first round. The Colts just invested a 4th round pick in Mack in 2017 and then followed up by drafting another 4th and 5th round RB last year when they didnt have to.

It's all dependent on the style of offense you run. And yeah, we havent seen the Kubiak/Stefanski combo yet but I can guarantee it's nothing like Flips where it's pass heavy. We went with RB over WR. Dont you think Stefanski and Kubiak have an idea of what they need for this offense? If they needed a WR THAT bad, they would have taken one earlier. They didnt. They'd rather invest in RB. But you're sitting here saying it was the wrong move? Who to believe? A disgruntled fan on VMB that wanted Hakeem Butler? Or the OC and offensive advisor of the Vikings. I'll take the latter.

[YikesVikes]

You win. Your post has too many issues to try to respond to. It was overwhelming. You counted CJ Anderson on the Rams as a heavy investment. You made my damn point and I quit because of that. You skipped over the point where I highlighted that heavy investment was both CAP and draft capital. The facts remain, you will continue to argue and bend things to make it fit for you. Like you believe that this will be only a Kubiak offense. Like Kevin has no space on it. None of us know what this offense will be like but you seem to believe it will only be 2 TE. You win.

lol ok. I never once said Anderson was a "heavy" investment. I was stressing what was more valuable on these teams. And it ended up coming out to be #2 RB vs. #3 WR. Bottom line is, you didnt get your guy in Butler and you cant get over it. That's you bending and making things fit for you. You're going to sit there and continue to ignore that a #3 WR in this offense is going to average about 20 catches per year. There are just too many mouths to feed when you're running a lot of 2 TE sets, turning into a run first team and have two elite WRs on the outside. A 3rd WR just doesnt fit in there well. If you're someone like the Rams who run the ball and use their top 3 WRs then yeah. The Rams arent a TE heavy team. Or the Falcons who use their TE and top 3 WRs heavy and hardly run the ball. In every offense you look at, there is a position that isnt touching the ball much. With us, it's going to be that 3rd WR. I dont understand why that is so hard to see. This isnt a Sean McVay offense. I mean, it's not even a Flip offense anymore. This offense doesnt need some big investment at #3 WR in order to succeed. Where was New Orleans investment at WR leading up to last year? Or New Englands? Or Indys? I can keep going. The Saints had Mark Ingram and Adrian Peterson in their backfield and took Kamara in the 3rd round. The Patriots were 10th and 7th in total rush offense prior to taking Sony Michel in the first round. The Colts just invested a 4th round pick in Mack in 2017 and then followed up by drafting another 4th and 5th round RB last year when they didnt have to.

It's all dependent on the style of offense you run. And yeah, we havent seen the Kubiak/Stefanski combo yet but I can guarantee it's nothing like Flips where it's pass heavy. We went with RB over WR. Dont you think Stefanski and Kubiak have an idea of what they need for this offense? If they needed a WR THAT bad, they would have taken one earlier. They didnt. They'd rather invest in RB. But you're sitting here saying it was the wrong move? Who to believe? A disgruntled fan on VMB that wanted Hakeem Butler? Or the OC and offensive advisor of the Vikings. I'll take the latter.

An that right there is the rub. You think teams decision making is perfect. I do not. Go ahead and try to downplay my opinion as a disgruntled fan. This disgruntle fan was right last season about our OL. THis disgruntle fan was right last season about OG. Teams make mistakes. I pointed out the Hughes issue and the neglect of the interior OL for a reason (seems it went over your head). You could have made the same statement about them taking a CB over an Interior OL. In fact, Im sure you did "Don't you think they knew what was more important when they selected CB and neglected to draft an interior OL?" Yet as you know, they were BLINDSIDED by defenses most of the season with our IOL giving up 18 sacks combined. The offense fell apart and we looked like #### out there because our OL and QB could not handle the constant pressure.

You using the Rams is just a poor example and you continue to do so. I'm just going to skip that because I have made my point with that. This isn't about Butler. Its about need. I pointed out (but you skipped it) positions on this team where the depth was probably more important to have than RB given the position value, the draft surplus of Rbs and the veterans available for dirt cheap. Was RB a position of need. Sure. Was the 3rd round the best round to address that need. I say no. WR, OT, DT are positions that should have been addressed before RB and with this particular RB. Regardless of the offense, in this football climate, a 3rd WR is more important than a backup RB. Given than Rudolph maybe gone... is it even a double TE offense like you keep proclaiming .

[YikesVikes]

Also just an FYI.... under Kevin, our OC. our 3rd WR in week 16 and 17 used the 3rd WR on 52 and 61% of the snaps respectively. Treadwell 31 and 24% but but but KUBIAK!

[VikingsVictorious]

Also just an FYI.... under Kevin, our OC. our 3rd WR in week 16 and 17 used the 3rd WR on 52 and 61% of the snaps respectively. Treadwell 31 and 24% but but but KUBIAK!

That was then this is now. I have a hard time believing that they brought it Kubiak to NOT run his offense. During the draft the analysts were calling every pick a Kubiak pick. Never once heard them call a player a Stefanski pick. You could certainly be right and I'm with you that the teams can make lots of mistakes, but I'd put my money on Brad, I mean Matt? or was it Mike being right. Percy.

[YikesVikes]

Also just an FYI.... under Kevin, our OC. our 3rd WR in week 16 and 17 used the 3rd WR on 52 and 61% of the snaps respectively. Treadwell 31 and 24% but but but KUBIAK!

That was then this is now. I have a hard time believing that they brought it Kubiak to NOT run his offense. During the draft the analysts were calling every pick a Kubiak pick. Never once heard them call a player a Stefanski pick. You could certainly be right and I'm with you that the teams can make lots of mistakes, but I'd put my money on Brad, I mean Matt? or was it Mike being right. Percy.

The analysts don't know what type of offense Kevin runs. You give these guys too much credit. I think Kubiak will have a lot of input on this offense. How? I'm not sure. I don't think it will be in calling the game and formations. I think blocking schemes, and other aspects. However, a Tiger doesn't change it's stripes. This offense will be a merger of both and we will need someone to step up at 3rd WR.

[VikingsVictorious]

That was then this is now. I have a hard time believing that they brought it Kubiak to NOT run his offense. During the draft the analysts were calling every pick a Kubiak pick. Never once heard them call a player a Stefanski pick. You could certainly be right and I'm with you that the teams can make lots of mistakes, but I'd put my money on Brad, I mean Matt? or was it Mike being right. Percy.

The analysts don't know what type of offense Kevin runs. You give these guys too much credit. I think Kubiak will have a lot of input on this offense. How? I'm not sure. I don't think it will be in calling the game and formations. I think blocking schemes, and other aspects. However, a Tiger doesn't change it's stripes. This offense will be a merger of both and we will need someone to step up at 3rd WR.

If that is true simple. We got Mitchell.
If not Mitchell Irv Smith could easily fill that role. Yeah I know he's not a WR but he's a pass catching threat.

[fiestavike]

Also just an FYI.... under Kevin, our OC. our 3rd WR in week 16 and 17 used the 3rd WR on 52 and 61% of the snaps respectively. Treadwell 31 and 24% but but but KUBIAK!

Which two TEs was he going to play? Rudolph and Conklin?

[Pondering Her Percy]

Also just an FYI.... under Kevin, our OC. our 3rd WR in week 16 and 17 used the 3rd WR on 52 and 61% of the snaps respectively. Treadwell 31 and 24% but but but KUBIAK!

They were still running flips offense so what does that stat prove?? The players even said it. Nothing really changed, it was just how plays were called. You dont just change and implement a new offense with 3 weeks left in the season. No less you left out week 15 against Miami when we ran the crap out of the ball.....and Kevin, our OC, was calling the plays.

Also, Treadwell didnt run 31% of the snaps in week 16. That was week 15 against Miami. He didnt play a lick in week 16. And against Miami, Treadwell didnt even play and Robinson was targeted twice all game. Thats where the true change happened. When Stefanski took over, Treadwell's playing time was drastically cut down and Robinson was used instead. But just based off of that, doesnt mean that's how Stefanski runs his offense. How many 2 WR sets or less did Flip has in his playbook you think? Way less than you think I can bet money on that.

[Pondering Her Percy]

An that right there is the rub. You think teams decision making is perfect. I do not. Go ahead and try to downplay my opinion as a disgruntled fan. This disgruntle fan was right last season about our OL. THis disgruntle fan was right last season about OG. Teams make mistakes. I pointed out the Hughes issue and the neglect of the interior OL for a reason (seems it went over your head). You could have made the same statement about them taking a CB over an Interior OL. In fact, Im sure you did "Don't you think they knew what was more important when they selected CB and neglected to draft an interior OL?" Yet as you know, they were BLINDSIDED by defenses most of the season with our IOL giving up 18 sacks combined. The offense fell apart and we looked like #### out there because our OL and QB could not handle the constant pressure.

No clearly teams make mistakes. The amount of things I have been right with when it comes to this team is up there as well. But I have been wrong and so have you. Any fan could sit there last year and say our OL was weak. I DID defend the Hughes pick because he was BPA at the time. And I continued to say, whats the difference drafting Hughes/O'Neill or Hernandez/Jackson?? Either way we got a good OL out of it. I know your first reaction will be, if we didnt draft an OT, Remmers could have stayed at RT. Yeah, sure. But at the same time, there was no way we could still have Remmers on the team right now given his salary. We barely have enough money to sign all our draft picks let alone keep a RT for another $6 million a year. Brian O'Neill was just as good of a pick as any of them in the end. So what are we continuing to complain about. If we completely ignored OL and didnt draft one or waited until round 5 then yeah, not a good plan.

If we draft Hernandez last year, our OL would have been Reiff, Compton, Elflein, Hernandez and Remmers. Remmers would still have to end up being an offseason cut, Compton walks, so now we're down to Reiff, Elflein and Hernandez. Say we still drafted Bradbury....what were we going to do at RT? That's what fans dont understand. No matter if we went with Hernandez or waited until round 2 for O'Neill, either way, we were going to be one offensive lineman short come the following year given who Spielman went after. So sweet, we would have a good interior now but have Reiff who is an already inconsistent LT and a gigantic question mark at RT. The chances of finding a pass blocker of O'Neill's caliber anytime after the 2nd or in free agency were as slim as they come. The only way he could have been in the clear was if we went Hernandez and O'Neill back to back. But chances are, they werent doing that.

What sounds better:

Reiff, Elflein, Bradbury, Hernandez, and probably Rashod Hill (or try and overpay for a junk free agent like Ju'Wuan James or Billy Turner)

or

Reiff, Elflein, Bradbury, Kline and O'Neill

I take the latter because I have no idea who would be our RT. No less good tackles are usually much harder to find that good interior lineman. Either way, for whatever reason fans think Will Hernandez was going to be some Quinton Nelson type savior for this OL. He's solid but he's nowhere near Nelson good and is not the greatest pass blocker in the world.

You using the Rams is just a poor example and you continue to do so. I'm just going to skip that because I have made my point with that. This isn't about Butler. Its about need. I pointed out (but you skipped it) positions on this team where the depth was probably more important to have than RB given the position value, the draft surplus of Rbs and the veterans available for dirt cheap. Was RB a position of need. Sure. Was the 3rd round the best round to address that need. I say no. WR, OT, DT are positions that should have been addressed before RB and with this particular RB. Regardless of the offense, in this football climate, a 3rd WR is more important than a backup RB. Given than Rudolph maybe gone... is it even a double TE offense like you keep proclaiming .

They are supposedly working to keep Rudolph now. So if they do, I highly doubt they keep one of them on the bench. They ran 2 TE in Washington all the time with Reed and Davis. Kubiak is from that system. As for a 3rd WR being more important, the amount of facts that you have ignored regarding a backup RB being more important, is beyond ridiculous. And have you not seen who's still out there for WRs? Michael Crabtree is better than any RB currently on the market. Then add in Jermaine Kearse, Rishard Matthews, Jordy Nelson, Pierre Garcon, etc. You're sitting there acting like the cupboard is bare for free agent WRs. The RBs outside of Blount and maybe Jay Ajayi, the market is absolute junk. So you can take your position value argument and veterans for dirt cheap argument and send it packing. Because it couldnt be more inaccurate. Yeah the draft was somewhat "deep" but so was WR. The free agent classes arent comparable though