There was a reason the Titians cut Kline and it wasn't because he was above average.
And this is going to be a big year for Elflein to show his worth.
They cut Kline because he refused to take a pay cut. And I didn’t specifically say he was the above average one. I’m referring to O’Neill. They aren’t going to cut Kline after 1 bad year and 3 straight solid ones. Lineman would be hitting the market right and left if that was the case.
Might want to Reread your post... Your quotes...I think O'Neill, Elflein and Kline are all average to above average.
Kline is an average to slightly above average lineman.
We're going to need good play out of both them guys this season.
There was a reason the Titians cut Kline and it wasn't because he was above average.
And this is going to be a big year for Elflein to show his worth.
They cut Kline because he refused to take a pay cut. And I didn’t specifically say he was the above average one. I’m referring to O’Neill. They aren’t going to cut Kline after 1 bad year and 3 straight solid ones. Lineman would be hitting the market right and left if that was the case.
They cut Kline because he played horribly last season. Same reason we cut Remmers.
They cut Kline because he refused to take a pay cut. And I didn’t specifically say he was the above average one. I’m referring to O’Neill. They aren’t going to cut Kline after 1 bad year and 3 straight solid ones. Lineman would be hitting the market right and left if that was the case.
They cut Kline because he played horribly last season. Same reason we cut Remmers.
Yep he graded worse than Remmers last season.
I sure hope we can improve him, or Rick just wasted a lot of money on another experiment.
They cut Kline because he refused to take a pay cut. And I didn’t specifically say he was the above average one. I’m referring to O’Neill. They aren’t going to cut Kline after 1 bad year and 3 straight solid ones. Lineman would be hitting the market right and left if that was the case.
They cut Kline because he played horribly last season. Same reason we cut Remmers.
Sorry but you’re wrong....
Kline started the last 46 games at right guard for the Titans. He signed a four-year, $26 million contract with Tennessee last year, was scheduled to earn $2 million in base salary for the 2019 season and rebuffed the team’s desire for him to take a pay cut, which prompted the decision to release him.
Again, you don’t just cut an offensive lineman for one bad year. There was more behind it than that. And it was because he didn’t want to take a pay cut. Remmers wasn’t ever a good guard. Kline was a solid guard for 3 years. Remmers never once showed well at guard, ever. So the two really aren’t comparable. Remmers was cut simply because he was bad and making offensive tackle money play guard. We got Kline for $2 million cheaper, he’s a much better pass blocker than Remmers and is a natural guard and an overall better guard than Remmers. So we landed a true guard for $2 million that was better than Remmers. I’d say that’s a pretty solid move on Spielmans part. Instead of going to pay billy turner $7 million a year. The free agent guard class wasn’t very good but there were some better ones than Kline, however, we’d have to pay a considerable amount more for those guys and probably would’ve lost Barr because of it. I’m completely fine with this signing. He’s better than any guard we had last year and if we assess guard in the draft with someone like Lindstrom, then we’re on our way to having a much improved offensive line
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
They cut Kline because he played horribly last season. Same reason we cut Remmers.
Yep he graded worse than Remmers last season.
I sure hope we can improve him, or Rick just wasted a lot of money on another experiment.
He’s also graded higher than Remmers ever did at guard in 2015, 2016 and 2017. He’s had one bad year out of the last 4. He was also the #12 overall pass blocking guard in 2017
And how did rick “waste a lot of money on another experiment”. He’s making about $3 million this season. That’s not a lot of money. Remmers was making over 5. Who was your guard option in free agency this year? Because whoever it was, I can bet would cost a lot more than that. And also cause us to let Barr walk.
Any time I bring up PFF along with other stats for a player, there are some guys on here that think it’s a joke or don’t buy into it (ok understandable). Yet now you guys are swearing by his one grade in 2018 and how he compares to Remmers? Well if you’re going to look at his one year, look at the previous 3 along with it. Because 1 year doesn’t tell you anything at all. PFF grades show Xavier Rhodes as one of the worst CBs in the nfl this year. We as Vikings fans know he had a down year, but know he wasn’t nearly THAT bad. I personally do not have complete faith in PFF. It does give us something to go off of, along with actually watching the player over time. But we all know, their grades can be drastically skewed at times. Not saying Kline’s was. But I’m going to look at what he’s done over time to determine how he’s actually done as a starting RG. Billy turner was legit one of the worst lineman in the league for a few years, was benched, etc. But he grades out as the #33 guard in the nfl this year and lands $7 million a year. That’s exactly why I don’t buy into “one year grades”. I look at the average over time. Turners was way more bad than good. Kline’s was way more good than bad. And we got him for $3 million a year and actually has experience and durability at guard. Remmers didn’t have that. Neither did turner. It’s a low risk, high reward type signing and provides durability. I take that any day over a 1 year PFF “hero”. Turner is terrible. And I’m glad the packers overpaid for him and plans on starting him. Better for us in the long run
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
They cut Kline because he refused to take a pay cut. And I didn’t specifically say he was the above average one. I’m referring to O’Neill. They aren’t going to cut Kline after 1 bad year and 3 straight solid ones. Lineman would be hitting the market right and left if that was the case.
Might want to Reread your post... Your quotes...I think O'Neill, Elflein and Kline are all average to above average.
Kline is an average to slightly above average lineman.
We're going to need good play out of both them guys this season.
Yes, slightly. And that’s if he’s playing well. But for the most part, he’s average like I was saying. O’Neill is definitely the above average one IMO. I think he has a bright future. Elflein, average with room to improve. He excelled at guard in college. I’m wondering if they move him
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
The question with Kline is why did he drop off. I don't think there's really any disputes he played poorly last year, even if you don't believe PFF, the Titans wouldn't have cut him if he played decently.
Was it scheme? The Titans switched to zone blocking, which is what Kubiak will run. Kline has already said a lot of the verbiage is nearly identical. Lets hope it's not scheme. Is it technique? He's mentioned he gets sloppy with his technique at times, I think this may be an area Kubiak can help, especially in the run game. The only other thing I can think of is an injury but I haven't heard anything.
Bottom line, if we get pre-2018 Kline, it will be a good signing. If we get last years Kline, Cousins is in for another year of guys constantly in his face. I like what Kubiak did in Denver, esp with running the ball, which we desperately need. So I'm hoping he's right that Kline is a good fit here. I'm hopeful we get at least two lineman in the first two days to make it a competition but I'm not holding my breath.
They cut Kline because he played horribly last season. Same reason we cut Remmers.
Sorry but you’re wrong....
Kline started the last 46 games at right guard for the Titans. He signed a four-year, $26 million contract with Tennessee last year, was scheduled to earn $2 million in base salary for the 2019 season and rebuffed the team’s desire for him to take a pay cut, which prompted the decision to release him.
Again, you don’t just cut an offensive lineman for one bad year. There was more behind it than that. And it was because he didn’t want to take a pay cut. Remmers wasn’t ever a good guard. Kline was a solid guard for 3 years. Remmers never once showed well at guard, ever. So the two really aren’t comparable. Remmers was cut simply because he was bad and making offensive tackle money play guard. We got Kline for $2 million cheaper, he’s a much better pass blocker than Remmers and is a natural guard and an overall better guard than Remmers. So we landed a true guard for $2 million that was better than Remmers. I’d say that’s a pretty solid move on Spielmans part. Instead of going to pay billy turner $7 million a year. The free agent guard class wasn’t very good but there were some better ones than Kline, however, we’d have to pay a considerable amount more for those guys and probably would’ve lost Barr because of it. I’m completely fine with this signing. He’s better than any guard we had last year and if we assess guard in the draft with someone like Lindstrom, then we’re on our way to having a much improved offensive line
Time will tell if Kline was a good deal.
He certainly wasn't no bargain like your stating.
Again, you don’t just cut an offensive lineman for one bad year. There was more behind it than that. And it was because he didn’t want to take a pay cut. Remmers wasn’t ever a good guard. Kline was a solid guard for 3 years. Remmers never once showed well at guard, ever. So the two really aren’t comparable. Remmers was cut simply because he was bad and making offensive tackle money play guard. We got Kline for $2 million cheaper, he’s a much better pass blocker than Remmers and is a natural guard and an overall better guard than Remmers. So we landed a true guard for $2 million that was better than Remmers. I’d say that’s a pretty solid move on Spielmans part. Instead of going to pay billy turner $7 million a year. The free agent guard class wasn’t very good but there were some better ones than Kline, however, we’d have to pay a considerable amount more for those guys and probably would’ve lost Barr because of it. I’m completely fine with this signing. He’s better than any guard we had last year and if we assess guard in the draft with someone like Lindstrom, then we’re on our way to having a much improved offensive line
Time will tell if Kline was a good deal.
He certainly wasn't no bargain like your stating.
Good post S197
I'm also hoping we can get a couple good prospects through the draft.
I’m aware of what Kline’s contract is. But like I said, he’s only making $3 million this year. Next year he is making 6 but there is also a potential out in 2021 where we can avoid paying him another $6 million and let him walk. So Spielmans isn’t on the hook for nearly as much as you’re saying. It’s basically a 2 year contract worth $9 million with a 3rd year option. A 2 year 9 million contract is not “wasting a lot of money”. It’s actually a pretty team friendly deal
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
S197 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:27 am
The question with Kline is why did he drop off. I don't think there's really any disputes he played poorly last year, even if you don't believe PFF, the Titans wouldn't have cut him if he played decently.
Was it scheme? The Titans switched to zone blocking, which is what Kubiak will run. Kline has already said a lot of the verbiage is nearly identical. Lets hope it's not scheme. Is it technique? He's mentioned he gets sloppy with his technique at times, I think this may be an area Kubiak can help, especially in the run game. The only other thing I can think of is an injury but I haven't heard anything.
Bottom line, if we get pre-2018 Kline, it will be a good signing. If we get last years Kline, Cousins is in for another year of guys constantly in his face. I like what Kubiak did in Denver, esp with running the ball, which we desperately need. So I'm hoping he's right that Kline is a good fit here. I'm hopeful we get at least two lineman in the first two days to make it a competition but I'm not holding my breath.
Even if he played decent yes the titans still could have easily cut him. They wanted him to take a pay cut and he refused. We asked griffen to take a pay cut. And he did. It’s because he had a down year but he still played decent enough when on the field. When he was out there it wasn’t like he was hurting us. But if he refused a pay cut, heads would be rolling because we needed that cap space. Granted there was a drop off in play, but go look at most nfl players, there are so many of them that have a year or two where there is a drop off. Like Xavier Rhodes or elflein. I’m not overly worried about the one year of poor play with those guys so I’m thinking the same way with Kline. This year will be the deciding factor if it was just a down year or they are getting worse as players.
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
Good post S197
I'm also hoping we can get a couple good prospects through the draft.
I’m aware of what Kline’s contract is. But like I said, he’s only making $3 million this year. Next year he is making 6 but there is also a potential out in 2021 where we can avoid paying him another $6 million and let him walk. So Spielmans isn’t on the hook for nearly as much as you’re saying. It’s basically a 2 year contract worth $9 million with a 3rd year option. A 2 year 9 million contract is not “wasting a lot of money”. It’s actually a pretty team friendly deal
There has been talk that it is basically a 2 year contract paying him 7.3 million a year. Which I don't really consider team friendly. It's a typical Rick deal.
They cut Kline because he played horribly last season. Same reason we cut Remmers.
Sorry but you’re wrong....
Kline started the last 46 games at right guard for the Titans. He signed a four-year, $26 million contract with Tennessee last year, was scheduled to earn $2 million in base salary for the 2019 season and rebuffed the team’s desire for him to take a pay cut, which prompted the decision to release him.
Again, you don’t just cut an offensive lineman for one bad year. There was more behind it than that. And it was because he didn’t want to take a pay cut. Remmers wasn’t ever a good guard. Kline was a solid guard for 3 years. Remmers never once showed well at guard, ever. So the two really aren’t comparable. Remmers was cut simply because he was bad and making offensive tackle money play guard. We got Kline for $2 million cheaper, he’s a much better pass blocker than Remmers and is a natural guard and an overall better guard than Remmers. So we landed a true guard for $2 million that was better than Remmers. I’d say that’s a pretty solid move on Spielmans part. Instead of going to pay billy turner $7 million a year. The free agent guard class wasn’t very good but there were some better ones than Kline, however, we’d have to pay a considerable amount more for those guys and probably would’ve lost Barr because of it. I’m completely fine with this signing. He’s better than any guard we had last year and if we assess guard in the draft with someone like Lindstrom, then we’re on our way to having a much improved offensive line
I am not wrong. The Titans are paying 3.5 million for him not to be on the team and had no real options behind him to start at RG. They cut him because he was bad. Really bad.
The same reason we cut Boone after just one season after signing him to a 4 year deal.
Asking a player to take a pay cut down to what the dead cap hit would be means nothing.
That doesn't mean the signing was bad, I just hope they draft some competition for a guy who failed so bad he was cut after just one season into a four year deal.
I think PHP is right that Kline is a better option than Remmers at RG. I just hope he is just insurance and he’s not overly affecting draft strategy (ie I hope they don’t have him penciled in as a starter with no plans for competition)
I also agree that one bad year isn’t a reason to write a guy off completely. That said S197’s post was enlightening and alarming. I didn’t know that last year the Titans switched to a zone scheme like Kubiak wants to run. Hopefully that’s just a coincidence and we have to trust in Kubiak to see guys who can fit his system. Maybe it just takes time for an OL to learn a new system and he will be better in his second season with a better coach. Although if it’s growing pains in a new system that doesn’t bode well for the rest of our OL this year LOL!! Did anyone follow the Titans much last year??? Did their entire OL suck?? Maybe they just didn’t have the right coach to properly implement a zone scheme??
One more point on Remmers- I agree he was terrible at OG but I still maintain that he was royally screwed by Vikings. Played RT his entire career. Signed by Vikings as a RT. Was a serviceable RT for a year for Vikings . Then forced into a position that he never played. Sucked. Cut.
I heard from someone who follows the Titans that Kline was injured in October of last year. He played thru injury, but was not the same the rest of the season. Hopefully this is the case and an off-season of rest will do him well. Regardless, we need to bring in (lots) more competition through the draft.
VikingPaul73 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:15 amOne more point on Remmers- I agree he was terrible at OG but I still maintain that he was royally screwed by Vikings. Played RT his entire career. Signed by Vikings as a RT. Was a serviceable RT for a year for Vikings . Then forced into a position that he never played. Sucked. Cut.
I didn’t get this either. And now we are talking about doing the same with Reiff? Reiff was a good LT with a decent LG next to him.
I think OL has been poorly managed at the coaching and GM levels for many years. This is just an observation and not meant to be a dig at the late Tony Sparano.
