Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

[StumpHunter]

Keenum not having success in Denver by no means makes the Cousins signing a success.

It also doesn't mean that this franchise wouldn't be better off having a QB making 18 million this year (most of it not guaranteed), who might barely win 8 games, rather than a QB making 29 million, all of it guaranteed, who barely won 8 games.

Nothing any of the QBs available in 2018 do will make signing Cousins the right decision. What Cousins does for the Vikings will make the signing the right or wrong decision, and so far, what he has done has not justified the signing. Until he wins, the move to sign him was a bad move.

I wouldn’t say Cousins “barely won 8 games”. He did win 8 games. 9 if we had a kicker. The point is, case wouldn’t have touched 8 games IMO. And I’m not the only one that believes that. Saying the cousins signing is a bad move right now, is premature. To repeat the success of last year given the schedule, is way harder than many think. Nor were our losses solely on cousins. 9 legit games compared to Keenums 4 last year....Keenum wasn’t winning 8 games this year. Not even close IMO. I don’t think he beats Philly. He got blown out by the jets and 49ers (no jimmy G) this year in Denver, and I don’t think he’s beating or even getting a tie vs GB. Even Detroit is a question mark with him. I mean given Arizona, New York and SF, I would hope he could squeeze out a win or two. The rest are a complete toss up with him. I’d say he’d have around 4-5 wins max if he was our QB this year

Keenum beats a reeling Philly team easy, as well as a 6 win Packer team, 6 win Detroit team, 4 win Jets team, 7 win Miami team, 4 win SF team, 3 win AZ team AND I think he easily beats the Bills when he doesn't fumble the game away. What a murderers row of football teams Cousins managed to beat...oops, didn't beat that horrible Bills team.

Case won 13 games in 2017 and he won 6 on a really bad, poorly coached Denver team. But you think he is going only win 4-5 against that garbage pile of teams Cousins beat/lost too?

I do think he would have taken a step back this year and agree with you there, but he wins at least 9 games last season. Maybe even beats the Saints, you know, since he did that in the playoffs in 2017?

[fiestavike]

I have zero doubt that the Vikings would have been better with Keenum last year than they were with Cousins. I have zero doubt you could create a better all around offense with Cousins than with Keenum. They have different strengths and weaknesses. On the whole, if I'm the coach I'd take Case, because when things break down he keeps his composure better. That said, he is FAR from ideal and I have no problem moving on from him. At this point, its all about building an offense Cousins CAN thrive in, and building a contingency plan/exit strategy from Cousins ASAP should that not work out. To me, that means drafting a QB early this year to potentially compete for a starting job in 2020. Cynically, this would even be a good move for Spielman/Zim in terms of job security. As long as they can keep the defense strong and maintain hope that something is in the works on offense, its hard to blow the whole thing up.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I wouldn’t say Cousins “barely won 8 games”. He did win 8 games. 9 if we had a kicker. The point is, case wouldn’t have touched 8 games IMO. And I’m not the only one that believes that. Saying the cousins signing is a bad move right now, is premature. To repeat the success of last year given the schedule, is way harder than many think. Nor were our losses solely on cousins. 9 legit games compared to Keenums 4 last year....Keenum wasn’t winning 8 games this year. Not even close IMO. I don’t think he beats Philly. He got blown out by the jets and 49ers (no jimmy G) this year in Denver, and I don’t think he’s beating or even getting a tie vs GB. Even Detroit is a question mark with him. I mean given Arizona, New York and SF, I would hope he could squeeze out a win or two. The rest are a complete toss up with him. I’d say he’d have around 4-5 wins max if he was our QB this year

Keenum beats a reeling Philly team easy, as well as a 6 win Packer team, 6 win Detroit team, 4 win Jets team, 7 win Miami team, 4 win SF team, 3 win AZ team AND I think he easily beats the Bills when he doesn't fumble the game away. What a murderers row of football teams Cousins managed to beat...oops, didn't beat that horrible Bills team.

Case won 13 games in 2017 and he won 6 on a really bad, poorly coached Denver team. But you think he is going only win 4-5 against that garbage pile of teams Cousins beat/lost too?

I do think he would have taken a step back this year and agree with you there, but he wins at least 9 games last season. Maybe even beats the Saints, you know, since he did that in the playoffs in 2017?

Lol you’re so far off here it’s not even funny. Go look at Denver’s starting roster entering week 1. FAR from “really bad”. He easily beats Philly? Lol ok. He literally got destroyed by them less than a year before that. Saying he can easily beat them is a tough one to prove given how embarrassing he was in the nfc championship. He literally lost to the Jets and 49ers in Denver. Literally got smoked by the jets. Maybe Miami and Detroit....although he struggled with Detroit the previous year. As for GB, you think he pulls off that comeback cousins did in GB? Lol not a chance. Treadwells drop turned pick and the blocked punt put us in the whole that game. He doesn’t come back from a 20-7 deficit and practically give our team a win after getting your kicker in field goal range more than once. At home? Maybe? Nobody ever saw Keenum against Rodgers. He got the easy way out.

And keenum would have beat Buffalo becaue he wouldn’t “fumble the game away”. So you’re talking the same Keenum that had 11 fumbles this year? 2 more than Cousins. The only reason it gets recognized for cousins is because we lost 7 out of 9 fumbles. Keenum lost 2 out of 11. Its nothing but the luck of which way the ball bounces. But I can tell you that Case Keenum wouldn’t be preventing Reiff from giving up 12 pressures or preventing Linval from roughing the passer on a third and long that resulted in a TD. They were the #2 defense in the nfl and a completely different team with Allen at QB compared to peterman who made Ponder look like Peyton Manning. So who’s to say Case Keenum wouldn’t be fumbling when he literally had more fumbles than cousins on the year and Reiff was Swiss cheese all game.....you’re drawing dead here man.

And he wins 9 games? And you’re saying he would have done that WITHOUT Pat Shurmurs system....dude you’re high lol He beat 4 legit teams last year. FOUR! How do you think he was going to do against 9 this year? And are you really using him beating the saints on a miracle pass as a reason he would probably beat the saints this year? Come on dude. Your hate is so deep for cousins that you feel like you have to defend a truly bad, career backup, inconsistent, journeyman QB that was just replaced by Joe Flacco and had plenty of talent around him to at least make a little noise in Denver. I get it you don’t like Cousins, but please stop defending keenum. He’s not a good QB. At all. And will go back to being a backup....again.

[StumpHunter]

I have zero doubt that the Vikings would have been better with Keenum last year than they were with Cousins. I have zero doubt you could create a better all around offense with Cousins than with Keenum. They have different strengths and weaknesses. On the whole, if I'm the coach I'd take Case, because when things break down he keeps his composure better. That said, he is FAR from ideal and I have no problem moving on from him. At this point, its all about building an offense Cousins CAN thrive in, and building a contingency plan/exit strategy from Cousins ASAP should that not work out. To me, that means drafting a QB early this year to potentially compete for a starting job in 2020. Cynically, this would even be a good move for Spielman/Zim in terms of job security. As long as they can keep the defense strong and maintain hope that something is in the works on offense, its hard to blow the whole thing up.

Agree with most of what you said. Keenum probably wins more last year than Cousins, but Cousins has the potential to be more effective than Case in the right offense. I don't think he can win it all, and doesn't have IT, but he is a lot more talented than Keenum.

This year should not be the year we draft a QB though. I would prefer we wait until next year to draft someone, after Rick is fired. Plus, even if one of the worst judges of QB talent in the NFL is still GM, you wouldn't be losing a valuable year of having a QB on a rookie contract if we wait until next season. We would also have to trade up to get a good QB in this draft as there are far too many teams desperate for a rookie QB who can save their franchise.

[StumpHunter]

Keenum beats a reeling Philly team easy, as well as a 6 win Packer team, 6 win Detroit team, 4 win Jets team, 7 win Miami team, 4 win SF team, 3 win AZ team AND I think he easily beats the Bills when he doesn't fumble the game away. What a murderers row of football teams Cousins managed to beat...oops, didn't beat that horrible Bills team.

Case won 13 games in 2017 and he won 6 on a really bad, poorly coached Denver team. But you think he is going only win 4-5 against that garbage pile of teams Cousins beat/lost too?

I do think he would have taken a step back this year and agree with you there, but he wins at least 9 games last season. Maybe even beats the Saints, you know, since he did that in the playoffs in 2017?

Lol you’re so far off here it’s not even funny. Go look at Denver’s starting roster entering week 1. FAR from “really bad”. He easily beats Philly? Lol ok. He literally got destroyed by them less than a year before that. Saying he can easily beat them is a tough one to prove given how embarrassing he was in the nfc championship. He literally lost to the Jets and 49ers in Denver. Literally got smoked by the jets. Maybe Miami and Detroit....although he struggled with Detroit the previous year. As for GB, you think he pulls off that comeback cousins did in GB? Lol not a chance. Treadwells drop turned pick and the blocked punt put us in the whole that game. He doesn’t come back from a 20-7 deficit and practically give our team a win after getting your kicker in field goal range more than once. At home? Maybe? Nobody ever saw Keenum against Rodgers. He got the easy way out.

And keenum would have beat Buffalo becaue he wouldn’t “fumble the game away”. So you’re talking the same Keenum that had 11 fumbles this year? 2 more than Cousins. The only reason it gets recognized for cousins is because we lost 7 out of 9 fumbles. Keenum lost 2 out of 11. Its nothing but the luck of which way the ball bounces. But I can tell you that Case Keenum wouldn’t be preventing Reiff from giving up 12 pressures or preventing Linval from roughing the passer on a third and long that resulted in a TD. They were the #2 defense in the nfl and a completely different team with Allen at QB compared to peterman who made Ponder look like Peyton Manning. So who’s to say Case Keenum wouldn’t be fumbling when he literally had more fumbles than cousins on the year and Reiff was Swiss cheese all game.....you’re drawing dead here man.

And he wins 9 games? And you’re saying he would have done that WITHOUT Pat Shurmurs system....dude you’re high lol He beat 4 legit teams last year. FOUR! How do you think he was going to do against 9 this year? And are you really using him beating the saints on a miracle pass as a reason he would probably beat the saints this year? Come on dude. Your hate is so deep for cousins that you feel like you have to defend a truly bad, career backup, inconsistent, journeyman QB that was just replaced by Joe Flacco and had plenty of talent around him to at least make a little noise in Denver. I get it you don’t like Cousins, but please stop defending keenum. He’s not a good QB. At all. And will go back to being a backup....again.

I am not defending Keenum, and saying that a guy who won 13 games the season before, would win 9 games against 9 bad teams (the Eagles were bad when we played them) playing with that same team is a very reasonable take. Saying he would only win 4-5 on this team when he won 6 on a team significantly worse than the Vikings is beyond unreasonable.

Keenum played well enough to win a playoff game against a very good Saints team, but he isn't going to be good enough to beat a very bad Bills team, or a Packer team with 2 starters missing from their secondary? Or a Detroit team that scored a combined 18 points against us? Or an Eagles team that scored 14 points until a lost minute garbage time TD? We really needed elite QB play to win those...

[CharVike]

https://vikingsterritory.com/2019/gener ... th-cousins

Great read and exactly what I’ve been preaching on here. How Keenum had more of a “lucky” year than anything and that in no way shape or form was he the “better option”. Also that the OL was considerably worse this year, especially at the G position

Keenum not having success in Denver by no means makes the Cousins signing a success.

It also doesn't mean that this franchise wouldn't be better off having a QB making 18 million this year (most of it not guaranteed), who might barely win 8 games, rather than a QB making 29 million, all of it guaranteed, who barely won 8 games.

Nothing any of the QBs available in 2018 do will make signing Cousins the right decision. What Cousins does for the Vikings will make the signing the right or wrong decision, and so far, what he has done has not justified the signing. Until he wins, the move to sign him was a bad move.

Who have we signed that can be justified. Hendricks. We got worse after we signed him. Diggs same thing. All the guys we signed didn't justify it. The Redskins what a jump they made. There's only one QB in the NFL that can lift a team from door mate to contender and that's Rodgers. And it looks like he might be losing his spark. And he took a joke of a deal and will never hit the market. Jimmy G gets a boat load and was it worth it. Cousins is an upgrade over the bum Case and 90 percent of the board wanted that bum back at 16 million +. We lack a contender roster. And if somehow we sneak in next year it will be a drilling again and Cousins will get all the blame. I still don't think our D is a shutdown D. Although we are ranked at the top. IMO we aren't close to the Bears D but we might be ranked higher. I seen them beat us the last game and that D just collapsed our entire offense. Not one guy. Nobody could get open deep. Why not? That 13-3 season everything broke right including a miracle to win a home playoff game. We should have spanked that team. But our D laid down and tried to hand it to them. Then the Eagles basically said why are you here. Bring that bum QB and number 1 ranked D on. Your playing a team now. Bottom line you can win with Cousins but he is not a QB that will take a below average roster and make them contend. That's Rodgers. We need to fix the roster for us to be a SB contender. All areas need improvement. But a QB upgrade won't become available. There isn't one out there. Maybe the 49ers will cut Jimmy G but I don't see that as an upgrade at all. The guy can't stay healthy.

[StumpHunter]

Keenum not having success in Denver by no means makes the Cousins signing a success.

It also doesn't mean that this franchise wouldn't be better off having a QB making 18 million this year (most of it not guaranteed), who might barely win 8 games, rather than a QB making 29 million, all of it guaranteed, who barely won 8 games.

Nothing any of the QBs available in 2018 do will make signing Cousins the right decision. What Cousins does for the Vikings will make the signing the right or wrong decision, and so far, what he has done has not justified the signing. Until he wins, the move to sign him was a bad move.

Who have we signed that can be justified. Hendricks. We got worse after we signed him. Diggs same thing. All the guys we signed didn't justify it. The Redskins what a jump they made. There's only one QB in the NFL that can lift a team from door mate to contender and that's Rodgers. And it looks like he might be losing his spark. And he took a joke of a deal and will never hit the market. Jimmy G gets a boat load and was it worth it. Cousins is an upgrade over the bum Case and 90 percent of the board wanted that bum back at 16 million +. We lack a contender roster. And if somehow we sneak in next year it will be a drilling again and Cousins will get all the blame. I still don't think our D is a shutdown D. Although we are ranked at the top. IMO we aren't close to the Bears D but we might be ranked higher. I seen them beat us the last game and that D just collapsed our entire offense. Not one guy. Nobody could get open deep. Why not? That 13-3 season everything broke right including a miracle to win a home playoff game. We should have spanked that team. But our D laid down and tried to hand it to them. Then the Eagles basically said why are you here. Bring that bum QB and number 1 ranked D on. Your playing a team now. Bottom line you can win with Cousins but he is not a QB that will take a below average roster and make them contend. That's Rodgers. We need to fix the roster for us to be a SB contender. All areas need improvement. But a QB upgrade won't become available. There isn't one out there. Maybe the 49ers will cut Jimmy G but I don't see that as an upgrade at all. The guy can't stay healthy.

Not sure who this Hendricks guy is, but Kendricks had a great season, Diggs had his best season, and Hunter became a top 3 DE in the NFL this season. Those three guys got huge raises and played better. They all justified their contracts. It is apples to oranges though, because paying a guy 14 million per year is not nearly the same as paying one guy 28 million. 28 million for a position that according to you, can't really carry a team.

The argument that bad teams making bad decisions at QB justifies our bad decision at QB is getting old. It doesn't.

As I said, the only thing that can justify the contract is Cousins winning us football games. So far he hasn't done that, and Hunter and Diggs at 14 million made a bigger impact on the team than Cousins did at twice that last year. Until that changes, he was a bad signing, regardless of other team's mistakes at QB.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Lol you’re so far off here it’s not even funny. Go look at Denver’s starting roster entering week 1. FAR from “really bad”. He easily beats Philly? Lol ok. He literally got destroyed by them less than a year before that. Saying he can easily beat them is a tough one to prove given how embarrassing he was in the nfc championship. He literally lost to the Jets and 49ers in Denver. Literally got smoked by the jets. Maybe Miami and Detroit....although he struggled with Detroit the previous year. As for GB, you think he pulls off that comeback cousins did in GB? Lol not a chance. Treadwells drop turned pick and the blocked punt put us in the whole that game. He doesn’t come back from a 20-7 deficit and practically give our team a win after getting your kicker in field goal range more than once. At home? Maybe? Nobody ever saw Keenum against Rodgers. He got the easy way out.

And keenum would have beat Buffalo becaue he wouldn’t “fumble the game away”. So you’re talking the same Keenum that had 11 fumbles this year? 2 more than Cousins. The only reason it gets recognized for cousins is because we lost 7 out of 9 fumbles. Keenum lost 2 out of 11. Its nothing but the luck of which way the ball bounces. But I can tell you that Case Keenum wouldn’t be preventing Reiff from giving up 12 pressures or preventing Linval from roughing the passer on a third and long that resulted in a TD. They were the #2 defense in the nfl and a completely different team with Allen at QB compared to peterman who made Ponder look like Peyton Manning. So who’s to say Case Keenum wouldn’t be fumbling when he literally had more fumbles than cousins on the year and Reiff was Swiss cheese all game.....you’re drawing dead here man.

And he wins 9 games? And you’re saying he would have done that WITHOUT Pat Shurmurs system....dude you’re high lol He beat 4 legit teams last year. FOUR! How do you think he was going to do against 9 this year? And are you really using him beating the saints on a miracle pass as a reason he would probably beat the saints this year? Come on dude. Your hate is so deep for cousins that you feel like you have to defend a truly bad, career backup, inconsistent, journeyman QB that was just replaced by Joe Flacco and had plenty of talent around him to at least make a little noise in Denver. I get it you don’t like Cousins, but please stop defending keenum. He’s not a good QB. At all. And will go back to being a backup....again.

I am not defending Keenum, and saying that a guy who won 13 games the season before, would win 9 games against 9 bad teams (the Eagles were bad when we played them) playing with that same team is a very reasonable take. Saying he would only win 4-5 on this team when he won 6 on a team significantly worse than the Vikings is beyond unreasonable.

Keenum played well enough to win a playoff game against a very good Saints team, but he isn't going to be good enough to beat a very bad Bills team, or a Packer team with 2 starters missing from their secondary? Or a Detroit team that scored a combined 18 points against us? Or an Eagles team that scored 14 points until a lost minute garbage time TD? We really needed elite QB play to win those...

No the problem is, he didn’t play well enough to beat the saints. His miracle is what saved him in so many eyes. Keenum was a huge reason the saints were leading when they were. He was a huge reason the saints came back....because of his poor decisions. But hey he executed a one in a million play so he played well enough. No. He didn’t. And we should’ve lost that game and we wouldn’t be having this discussion if the miracle didn’t work out. That game was over with if he didn’t throw his usual pop fly to start the second half. He literally had to manage the game and instead, he let them back in it. If we won 31-14, yeah he clearly played well enough. But he won on a legit miracle. That’s not playing “well enough”, especially when he was the reason they started their comeback.

As for who we played this year....now the eagles were bad? Come on man. Were they playing well at the time? Eh. But either way, they still had a loaded roster and were at home. Point is, that’s not a gimme game by any means. As for the packers, same thing. Keenum had it easy last year, caught Hundley twice. The team was an absolute joke without Rodgers. Yeah this year they weren’t great but they still had Rodgers and they are that much better when they have Rodgers. Two more games that are far from a walk in the park. Detroit I said I would end up giving him at least one of those maybe both. Even though he struggled once against them last year. As for teams like SF and the jets, yeah they are bad teams but he got beat by both of them this year in Denver. Absolutely smoked by the jets. And you can say all you want that Denver is a “bad” team (even though they aren’t nearly as bad as you say) they had WAY more talent than either of those teams had. So hey maybe keenum would pull of a miracle against the saints this year but loses to the 49ers and jets....how is that a good thing? Just because he beat a team with a “winning record”. Those are two teams he should have beat and didn’t. And also lost to the raiders. And you want to bring up Cousins one bad loss to the bills....keenum lost to 3 of the 4 worst teams in the entire nfl this year....literally. But he would have 9 wins with us??....something isn’t adding up.

And as for the bills, again, #2 defense in the nfl. Not trying to defend them but I live in northern NY. Watch and go to their games quite often. Their killer for the past however many years has been their offense. Not their defense. We went down 17-0 because of 3 plays. Linvals roughing the passer on 3rd and long and two fumbles by cousins due to Reiff. I was at that game. Keenum doesn’t prevent linvals mistake. And there’s no reason to think that he wouldn’t fumble like Kirk did in those situations because his OL was invisible. Especially Reiff. Down 17-0 after 4 offensive plays. You’re literally going off of, “well keenum wouldn’t fumble on those plays” as your only reason to possibly not be down 17-0 that game. Think about it. With how that game went and how fast we were down 17-0, how does keenum change that unless he literally doesn’t fumble when he gets sacked? He had more fumbles this year than cousins. So why wouldn’t he fumble and in turn, be down 17-0 just like cousins was. And then trying to come back from that deficit against the #2 defense in the nfl....good luck case

Saying we didn’t need “elite QB play” in those games doesn’t make any sense to me. The patriots played the lions and titans this year. Two non-playoff teams and got absolutely demolished by both. Anyone can beat anyone on any given day. Matt Stafford and Marcus Mariota smoked Tom Brady and the super bowl champs but couldn’t beat the 49ers, Jets and Dolphins. In the end, it means nothing. But I can tell you that with the schedule we had, keenum isn’t touching 9 games. ESPECIALLY without Pat Shurmur. The one person that you always fail to mention. Keenum had Shurmur, a better OL, the #1 D in the nfl and a cake walk of a schedule. Cousins had a clueless OC that wanted to throw 45 times a game and never run the ball....and then gets fired, a much worse OL, a good defense that took a little dip from the previous year and played 7 playoff teams......could it have been set up any better for keenum or any worse for cousins? Probably not. But the #1 in this whole argument is Shurmur. Keenum is nothing without Shurmur. And even with him, I don’t see him getting through a 7 playoff team schedule and the packers with Rodgers twice. That’s the 9 games I’m referring to. He’d be lucky to win 2-3 of those max. Especially when you can’t beat 3 of the 4 worst teams in the nfl with a fairly talented team in Denver. Makes me wonder how poorly he would perform not only against those playoff teams, but teams like the Jets, 49ers, cardinals, lions, etc. But I wouldn’t doubt a few losses in there from one of the most inconsistent QBs in the nfl right now

[Pondering Her Percy]

Keenum not having success in Denver by no means makes the Cousins signing a success.

It also doesn't mean that this franchise wouldn't be better off having a QB making 18 million this year (most of it not guaranteed), who might barely win 8 games, rather than a QB making 29 million, all of it guaranteed, who barely won 8 games.

Nothing any of the QBs available in 2018 do will make signing Cousins the right decision. What Cousins does for the Vikings will make the signing the right or wrong decision, and so far, what he has done has not justified the signing. Until he wins, the move to sign him was a bad move.

Who have we signed that can be justified. Hendricks. We got worse after we signed him. Diggs same thing. All the guys we signed didn't justify it. The Redskins what a jump they made. There's only one QB in the NFL that can lift a team from door mate to contender and that's Rodgers. And it looks like he might be losing his spark. And he took a joke of a deal and will never hit the market. Jimmy G gets a boat load and was it worth it. Cousins is an upgrade over the bum Case and 90 percent of the board wanted that bum back at 16 million +. We lack a contender roster. And if somehow we sneak in next year it will be a drilling again and Cousins will get all the blame. I still don't think our D is a shutdown D. Although we are ranked at the top. IMO we aren't close to the Bears D but we might be ranked higher. I seen them beat us the last game and that D just collapsed our entire offense. Not one guy. Nobody could get open deep. Why not? That 13-3 season everything broke right including a miracle to win a home playoff game. We should have spanked that team. But our D laid down and tried to hand it to them. Then the Eagles basically said why are you here. Bring that bum QB and number 1 ranked D on. Your playing a team now. Bottom line you can win with Cousins but he is not a QB that will take a below average roster and make them contend. That's Rodgers. We need to fix the roster for us to be a SB contender. All areas need improvement. But a QB upgrade won't become available. There isn't one out there. Maybe the 49ers will cut Jimmy G but I don't see that as an upgrade at all. The guy can't stay healthy.

There’s a lot I don’t understand in this post.

-Kendrick’s has been a very solid LB

-Diggs just put up career high numbers 90+ catches over 1,000 yards and 8 tds.

-we lack a contender roster? Top 3 defense in the last two years. That alone makes us a contender. Unless we had the worst offense in the nfl. There is plenty of talent on both sides of the ball to be a contender. We just didn’t put it together this year as a team

- our D did not lay down against the saints last year. Keenum and our ST let them back in the game. Keenums terrible pick and the block punt put them in scoring range. Our D shut them down all game but when you have a QB throw an int and your ST crap the bed and put them in scoring range, it’s tough to hold up forever. Both those “drives” ended with a TD. If those plays don’t happen, there is zero need for a miracle. The game is over.

-the 49ers will not cut Jimmy G one year after giving him a mega deal.

- this team does not need improvement in all areas. Especially at the top of the depth chart. Some areas? Yes. All? Not even close

-I’m not sure why you’re raving so much about Rodgers. Mahomes is the new sheriff in town. Rodgers is still legit but if he could lift a team up, he would’ve done it this year and he didn’t. Still not easy to beat either way.


- only thing I agree with really is that keenum is a bum lol. That couldn’t be more true and the second the season ended last year, the first thing I said was to let him walk. Too many fans were blinded by the 13-3 record and the miracle with him and didn’t see the true QB in Case Keenum. It’s like hitting for $1,500 at the casino and seeing nothing but dollar signs so you go back everyday for the next year in hopes to win more. You’re just going to end up losing it all in the long run. That’s Case Keenum. If you look at his career or have watched him on any other team under any non-Shurmur offense, he’s not a good QB....at all. And wildly inconsistent. Hence why he’s been a career backup and will soon go back to that position

[CharVike]

Who have we signed that can be justified. Hendricks. We got worse after we signed him. Diggs same thing. All the guys we signed didn't justify it. The Redskins what a jump they made. There's only one QB in the NFL that can lift a team from door mate to contender and that's Rodgers. And it looks like he might be losing his spark. And he took a joke of a deal and will never hit the market. Jimmy G gets a boat load and was it worth it. Cousins is an upgrade over the bum Case and 90 percent of the board wanted that bum back at 16 million +. We lack a contender roster. And if somehow we sneak in next year it will be a drilling again and Cousins will get all the blame. I still don't think our D is a shutdown D. Although we are ranked at the top. IMO we aren't close to the Bears D but we might be ranked higher. I seen them beat us the last game and that D just collapsed our entire offense. Not one guy. Nobody could get open deep. Why not? That 13-3 season everything broke right including a miracle to win a home playoff game. We should have spanked that team. But our D laid down and tried to hand it to them. Then the Eagles basically said why are you here. Bring that bum QB and number 1 ranked D on. Your playing a team now. Bottom line you can win with Cousins but he is not a QB that will take a below average roster and make them contend. That's Rodgers. We need to fix the roster for us to be a SB contender. All areas need improvement. But a QB upgrade won't become available. There isn't one out there. Maybe the 49ers will cut Jimmy G but I don't see that as an upgrade at all. The guy can't stay healthy.

Not sure who this Hendricks guy is, but Kendricks had a great season, Diggs had his best season, and Hunter became a top 3 DE in the NFL this season. Those three guys got huge raises and played better. They all justified their contracts. It is apples to oranges though, because paying a guy 14 million per year is not nearly the same as paying one guy 28 million. 28 million for a position that according to you, can't really carry a team.

The argument that bad teams making bad decisions at QB justifies our bad decision at QB is getting old. It doesn't.

As I said, the only thing that can justify the contract is Cousins winning us football games. So far he hasn't done that, and Hunter and Diggs at 14 million made a bigger impact on the team than Cousins did at twice that last year. Until that changes, he was a bad signing, regardless of other team's mistakes at QB.

Cousins played well. He was the best option available and a very good decision. I think he set some records. Since all these guys you mentioned had great seasons why were we .500. I know it was all Cousins. This vaunted D let the Rams do what ever they wanted to. Yet Cousins lost the game. He put up points. The Pack tied us early because our FG kicker couldn't make a kick and our D didn't hold up there end. That was all Cousins again. He put up 29 on the road. And that's without a FG kicker. Otherwise it would have been over 30. How is that considered he lost the game. Maybe Kendricks should have made a play to justify his great season. We had essentially the same roster, with these great players, that got destroyed in the champ game. Couldn't even make a game of it. That's why most had us as a .500 team which I thought was nuts. But they saw something that I didn't. I guess it's all our QB and nothing else. We should trade him for the champion Bears QB. Guess what that will do? Make us a 4 win team.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Not sure who this Hendricks guy is, but Kendricks had a great season, Diggs had his best season, and Hunter became a top 3 DE in the NFL this season. Those three guys got huge raises and played better. They all justified their contracts. It is apples to oranges though, because paying a guy 14 million per year is not nearly the same as paying one guy 28 million. 28 million for a position that according to you, can't really carry a team.

The argument that bad teams making bad decisions at QB justifies our bad decision at QB is getting old. It doesn't.

As I said, the only thing that can justify the contract is Cousins winning us football games. So far he hasn't done that, and Hunter and Diggs at 14 million made a bigger impact on the team than Cousins did at twice that last year. Until that changes, he was a bad signing, regardless of other team's mistakes at QB.

Cousins played well. He was the best option available and a very good decision. I think he set some records. Since all these guys you mentioned had great seasons why were we .500. I know it was all Cousins. This vaunted D let the Rams do what ever they wanted to. Yet Cousins lost the game. He put up points. The Pack tied us early because our FG kicker couldn't make a kick and our D didn't hold up there end. That was all Cousins again. He put up 29 on the road. And that's without a FG kicker. Otherwise it would have been over 30. How is that considered he lost the game. Maybe Kendricks should have made a play to justify his great season. We had essentially the same roster, with these great players, that got destroyed in the champ game. Couldn't even make a game of it. That's why most had us as a .500 team which I thought was nuts. But they saw something that I didn't. I guess it's all our QB and nothing else. We should trade him for the champion Bears QB. Guess what that will do? Make us a 4 win team.

I mean I agree with your take on cousins but you act like we have some below average defense. Which doesn’t make sense to me. You’re so caught up in a couple bad games over the last two seasons but forget the great ones. That’s what I don’t understand. Like how they shut drew brees and Aaron Rodgers (twice) down. Two of the best QBs in the league. You’re saying our D didn’t hold up their end against GBs tie.... go look at the numbers. We held them to all field goals and 1 offensive TD. The other TD was a blocked punt. And I know at least 1 FG came off the Treadwell pick deep in GBs end. Rodgers threw for 281 in 4 quarters and an entire OT and 1 TD. Had 6.7 yards per attempt which is pretty below average. How is the D not holding up their end?

Yeah the Rams game they cramped the bed. Yeah the eagles game last year they crapped the bed. But outside of that, it rarely happens. So I guess I’m kind of lost here

[StumpHunter]

I am not defending Keenum, and saying that a guy who won 13 games the season before, would win 9 games against 9 bad teams (the Eagles were bad when we played them) playing with that same team is a very reasonable take. Saying he would only win 4-5 on this team when he won 6 on a team significantly worse than the Vikings is beyond unreasonable.

Keenum played well enough to win a playoff game against a very good Saints team, but he isn't going to be good enough to beat a very bad Bills team, or a Packer team with 2 starters missing from their secondary? Or a Detroit team that scored a combined 18 points against us? Or an Eagles team that scored 14 points until a lost minute garbage time TD? We really needed elite QB play to win those...

No the problem is, he didn’t play well enough to beat the saints. His miracle is what saved him in so many eyes. Keenum was a huge reason the saints were leading when they were. He was a huge reason the saints came back....because of his poor decisions. But hey he executed a one in a million play so he played well enough. No. He didn’t. And we should’ve lost that game and we wouldn’t be having this discussion if the miracle didn’t work out. That game was over with if he didn’t throw his usual pop fly to start the second half. He literally had to manage the game and instead, he let them back in it. If we won 31-14, yeah he clearly played well enough. But he won on a legit miracle. That’s not playing “well enough”, especially when he was the reason they started their comeback.

As for who we played this year....now the eagles were bad? Come on man. Were they playing well at the time? Eh. But either way, they still had a loaded roster and were at home. Point is, that’s not a gimme game by any means. As for the packers, same thing. Keenum had it easy last year, caught Hundley twice. The team was an absolute joke without Rodgers. Yeah this year they weren’t great but they still had Rodgers and they are that much better when they have Rodgers. Two more games that are far from a walk in the park. Detroit I said I would end up giving him at least one of those maybe both. Even though he struggled once against them last year. As for teams like SF and the jets, yeah they are bad teams but he got beat by both of them this year in Denver. Absolutely smoked by the jets. And you can say all you want that Denver is a “bad” team (even though they aren’t nearly as bad as you say) they had WAY more talent than either of those teams had. So hey maybe keenum would pull of a miracle against the saints this year but loses to the 49ers and jets....how is that a good thing? Just because he beat a team with a “winning record”. Those are two teams he should have beat and didn’t. And also lost to the raiders. And you want to bring up Cousins one bad loss to the bills....keenum lost to 3 of the 4 worst teams in the entire nfl this year....literally. But he would have 9 wins with us??....something isn’t adding up.

And as for the bills, again, #2 defense in the nfl. Not trying to defend them but I live in northern NY. Watch and go to their games quite often. Their killer for the past however many years has been their offense. Not their defense. We went down 17-0 because of 3 plays. Linvals roughing the passer on 3rd and long and two fumbles by cousins due to Reiff. I was at that game. Keenum doesn’t prevent linvals mistake. And there’s no reason to think that he wouldn’t fumble like Kirk did in those situations because his OL was invisible. Especially Reiff. Down 17-0 after 4 offensive plays. You’re literally going off of, “well keenum wouldn’t fumble on those plays” as your only reason to possibly not be down 17-0 that game. Think about it. With how that game went and how fast we were down 17-0, how does keenum change that unless he literally doesn’t fumble when he gets sacked? He had more fumbles this year than cousins. So why wouldn’t he fumble and in turn, be down 17-0 just like cousins was. And then trying to come back from that deficit against the #2 defense in the nfl....good luck case

Saying we didn’t need “elite QB play” in those games doesn’t make any sense to me. The patriots played the lions and titans this year. Two non-playoff teams and got absolutely demolished by both. Anyone can beat anyone on any given day. Matt Stafford and Marcus Mariota smoked Tom Brady and the super bowl champs but couldn’t beat the 49ers, Jets and Dolphins. In the end, it means nothing. But I can tell you that with the schedule we had, keenum isn’t touching 9 games. ESPECIALLY without Pat Shurmur. The one person that you always fail to mention. Keenum had Shurmur, a better OL, the #1 D in the nfl and a cake walk of a schedule. Cousins had a clueless OC that wanted to throw 45 times a game and never run the ball....and then gets fired, a much worse OL, a good defense that took a little dip from the previous year and played 7 playoff teams......could it have been set up any better for keenum or any worse for cousins? Probably not. But the #1 in this whole argument is Shurmur. Keenum is nothing without Shurmur. And even with him, I don’t see him getting through a 7 playoff team schedule and the packers with Rodgers twice. That’s the 9 games I’m referring to. He’d be lucky to win 2-3 of those max. Especially when you can’t beat 3 of the 4 worst teams in the nfl with a fairly talented team in Denver. Makes me wonder how poorly he would perform not only against those playoff teams, but teams like the Jets, 49ers, cardinals, lions, etc. But I wouldn’t doubt a few losses in there from one of the most inconsistent QBs in the nfl right now

I get it. If you were reasonable about the number of wins Case would have had on this team, it doesn't look good for your boy Cousins. A reasonable record like 7-9, 8-8 from a guy who will be cut after just one year, versus 8-7-1 from a guy we are stuck with for 2 more seasons is not great. So you need to say things like "Case only played 4 legit teams last year" and that someone who won 6 games on a significantly worse team than the Vikings, playing a more difficult schedule than the Vikings had, would have only won 4-5 playing on a much better team with an easier schedule.

9-7 on a good team from a guy who won 13 the year before is reasonable. 4-5 is absurd.

[Pondering Her Percy]

No the problem is, he didn’t play well enough to beat the saints. His miracle is what saved him in so many eyes. Keenum was a huge reason the saints were leading when they were. He was a huge reason the saints came back....because of his poor decisions. But hey he executed a one in a million play so he played well enough. No. He didn’t. And we should’ve lost that game and we wouldn’t be having this discussion if the miracle didn’t work out. That game was over with if he didn’t throw his usual pop fly to start the second half. He literally had to manage the game and instead, he let them back in it. If we won 31-14, yeah he clearly played well enough. But he won on a legit miracle. That’s not playing “well enough”, especially when he was the reason they started their comeback.

As for who we played this year....now the eagles were bad? Come on man. Were they playing well at the time? Eh. But either way, they still had a loaded roster and were at home. Point is, that’s not a gimme game by any means. As for the packers, same thing. Keenum had it easy last year, caught Hundley twice. The team was an absolute joke without Rodgers. Yeah this year they weren’t great but they still had Rodgers and they are that much better when they have Rodgers. Two more games that are far from a walk in the park. Detroit I said I would end up giving him at least one of those maybe both. Even though he struggled once against them last year. As for teams like SF and the jets, yeah they are bad teams but he got beat by both of them this year in Denver. Absolutely smoked by the jets. And you can say all you want that Denver is a “bad” team (even though they aren’t nearly as bad as you say) they had WAY more talent than either of those teams had. So hey maybe keenum would pull of a miracle against the saints this year but loses to the 49ers and jets....how is that a good thing? Just because he beat a team with a “winning record”. Those are two teams he should have beat and didn’t. And also lost to the raiders. And you want to bring up Cousins one bad loss to the bills....keenum lost to 3 of the 4 worst teams in the entire nfl this year....literally. But he would have 9 wins with us??....something isn’t adding up.

And as for the bills, again, #2 defense in the nfl. Not trying to defend them but I live in northern NY. Watch and go to their games quite often. Their killer for the past however many years has been their offense. Not their defense. We went down 17-0 because of 3 plays. Linvals roughing the passer on 3rd and long and two fumbles by cousins due to Reiff. I was at that game. Keenum doesn’t prevent linvals mistake. And there’s no reason to think that he wouldn’t fumble like Kirk did in those situations because his OL was invisible. Especially Reiff. Down 17-0 after 4 offensive plays. You’re literally going off of, “well keenum wouldn’t fumble on those plays” as your only reason to possibly not be down 17-0 that game. Think about it. With how that game went and how fast we were down 17-0, how does keenum change that unless he literally doesn’t fumble when he gets sacked? He had more fumbles this year than cousins. So why wouldn’t he fumble and in turn, be down 17-0 just like cousins was. And then trying to come back from that deficit against the #2 defense in the nfl....good luck case

Saying we didn’t need “elite QB play” in those games doesn’t make any sense to me. The patriots played the lions and titans this year. Two non-playoff teams and got absolutely demolished by both. Anyone can beat anyone on any given day. Matt Stafford and Marcus Mariota smoked Tom Brady and the super bowl champs but couldn’t beat the 49ers, Jets and Dolphins. In the end, it means nothing. But I can tell you that with the schedule we had, keenum isn’t touching 9 games. ESPECIALLY without Pat Shurmur. The one person that you always fail to mention. Keenum had Shurmur, a better OL, the #1 D in the nfl and a cake walk of a schedule. Cousins had a clueless OC that wanted to throw 45 times a game and never run the ball....and then gets fired, a much worse OL, a good defense that took a little dip from the previous year and played 7 playoff teams......could it have been set up any better for keenum or any worse for cousins? Probably not. But the #1 in this whole argument is Shurmur. Keenum is nothing without Shurmur. And even with him, I don’t see him getting through a 7 playoff team schedule and the packers with Rodgers twice. That’s the 9 games I’m referring to. He’d be lucky to win 2-3 of those max. Especially when you can’t beat 3 of the 4 worst teams in the nfl with a fairly talented team in Denver. Makes me wonder how poorly he would perform not only against those playoff teams, but teams like the Jets, 49ers, cardinals, lions, etc. But I wouldn’t doubt a few losses in there from one of the most inconsistent QBs in the nfl right now

I get it. If you were reasonable about the number of wins Case would have had on this team, it doesn't look good for your boy Cousins. A reasonable record like 7-9, 8-8 from a guy who will be cut after just one year, versus 8-7-1 from a guy we are stuck with for 2 more seasons is not great. So you need to say things like "Case only played 4 legit teams last year" and that someone who won 6 games on a significantly worse team than the Vikings, playing a more difficult schedule than the Vikings had, would have only won 4-5 playing on a much better team with an easier schedule.

9-7 on a good team from a guy who won 13 the year before is reasonable. 4-5 is absurd.

It’s isnt absurd. He’s one of the most inconsistent QBs in the league and has been notably bad over his entire career. He also had everything going for him last year. The OC, the OL, the running game, the defense, the schedule, etc. This year he wouldn’t have the OC, or the OL or the running game, or an elite defense, or a schedule that had 4 playoff teams on it and two Aaron Rodgerless Packer games....Recipe for disaster for a QB of Keenums “caliber”


I don’t get those whole “we’re stuck with Kirk” thing. Yeah we have him for two more seasons, however, that doesn’t mean he’s going to be some terrible QB for the next two seasons. Sure it wasn’t the best year but there were a lot of things that went wrong other than Kirk playing bad in a few games. It’s about righting the ship as a team. Not just Kirk turning into some amazing QB.

[CharVike]

Cousins played well. He was the best option available and a very good decision. I think he set some records. Since all these guys you mentioned had great seasons why were we .500. I know it was all Cousins. This vaunted D let the Rams do what ever they wanted to. Yet Cousins lost the game. He put up points. The Pack tied us early because our FG kicker couldn't make a kick and our D didn't hold up there end. That was all Cousins again. He put up 29 on the road. And that's without a FG kicker. Otherwise it would have been over 30. How is that considered he lost the game. Maybe Kendricks should have made a play to justify his great season. We had essentially the same roster, with these great players, that got destroyed in the champ game. Couldn't even make a game of it. That's why most had us as a .500 team which I thought was nuts. But they saw something that I didn't. I guess it's all our QB and nothing else. We should trade him for the champion Bears QB. Guess what that will do? Make us a 4 win team.

I mean I agree with your take on cousins but you act like we have some below average defense. Which doesn’t make sense to me. You’re so caught up in a couple bad games over the last two seasons but forget the great ones. That’s what I don’t understand. Like how they shut drew brees and Aaron Rodgers (twice) down. Two of the best QBs in the league. You’re saying our D didn’t hold up their end against GBs tie.... go look at the numbers. We held them to all field goals and 1 offensive TD. The other TD was a blocked punt. And I know at least 1 FG came off the Treadwell pick deep in GBs end. Rodgers threw for 281 in 4 quarters and an entire OT and 1 TD. Had 6.7 yards per attempt which is pretty below average. How is the D not holding up their end?

Yeah the Rams game they cramped the bed. Yeah the eagles game last year they crapped the bed. But outside of that, it rarely happens. So I guess I’m kind of lost here

I never stated our defense was below average as you pointed out. They have played some tremendous football. We held the Lions below 10 points twice this year. What I'm getting at is all offensive woes are thrown at Cousins. We couldn't do anything offensively against the Pats and there D wasn't even ranked that high. We were tied 10-10 and then our D gave up a 75 yard drive in 4 plays. And then 50 yards in 6 plays. 10 plays 125 yards. Almost like they were toying with us. They probably could have scored whenever it was needed. Brady had 311 yards on 32 attempts. That's close to 10 yards an attempt. That's getting abused anyway you look at it. Not sure how that loses you. Cousins averaged less than 5 yards an attempt which really means he shouldn't be an NFL QB. The Ram guy did the same in the SB. He shouldn't be an NFL QB either. And yet the Pats D was rated as being basically crap. Maybe I'm getting confused to easily. But our D was roasted IMO in that game. Although the rating may say otherwise.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I mean I agree with your take on cousins but you act like we have some below average defense. Which doesn’t make sense to me. You’re so caught up in a couple bad games over the last two seasons but forget the great ones. That’s what I don’t understand. Like how they shut drew brees and Aaron Rodgers (twice) down. Two of the best QBs in the league. You’re saying our D didn’t hold up their end against GBs tie.... go look at the numbers. We held them to all field goals and 1 offensive TD. The other TD was a blocked punt. And I know at least 1 FG came off the Treadwell pick deep in GBs end. Rodgers threw for 281 in 4 quarters and an entire OT and 1 TD. Had 6.7 yards per attempt which is pretty below average. How is the D not holding up their end?

Yeah the Rams game they cramped the bed. Yeah the eagles game last year they crapped the bed. But outside of that, it rarely happens. So I guess I’m kind of lost here

I never stated our defense was below average as you pointed out. They have played some tremendous football. We held the Lions below 10 points twice this year. What I'm getting at is all offensive woes are thrown at Cousins. We couldn't do anything offensively against the Pats and there D wasn't even ranked that high. We were tied 10-10 and then our D gave up a 75 yard drive in 4 plays. And then 50 yards in 6 plays. 10 plays 125 yards. Almost like they were toying with us. They probably could have scored whenever it was needed. Brady had 311 yards on 32 attempts. That's close to 10 yards an attempt. That's getting abused anyway you look at it. Not sure how that loses you. Cousins averaged less than 5 yards an attempt which really means he shouldn't be an NFL QB. The Ram guy did the same in the SB. He shouldn't be an NFL QB either. And yet the Pats D was rated as being basically crap. Maybe I'm getting confused to easily. But our D was roasted IMO in that game. Although the rating may say otherwise.

I'm saying saying you stated that but that's how you are putting it across as. I have gone to bat for Cousins because you are right, any offensive issue lands on Cousins shoulders. Which is far from accurate. Yeah, he played bad in a few games. There were other games he played well and other factors on offense were terrible. But every loss, every bad play, any offensive struggle, is all on Cousins which just isnt realistic.

As for the D, yeah Brady played well. We held him in check for a good chunk of the game but laid down at times. I get it. But that can and does even happen for the best defenses in the NFL. The Bears were the #1 D in the NFL and had 38 put up on them by Brady and were also embarrassed by the Giants and Dolphins. Rodgers also shredded them on one leg. I mean what QB truly shredded our defense this year? Goff and Brady. The two QBs that were in the SB this year. They were the #2 and #5 total offenses in the NFL and the #1 and #2 total offenses in the postseason. And for you to say Jared Goff shouldnt be an NFL QB?? Come on man. Almost 4,700 yards, 32 TDs and 12 INTs. That's a legit QB. Yeah he crapped his pants in the SB against the Patriots. That does NOT mean he shouldnt be on an NFL roster. That just doesnt even make sense.

As long as Mike Zimmer is here, this defense is always going to be legit. In the last 3 seasons, our D has been ranked 3rd in 2016, 1st in 2017 and 4th in 2018. This offense needs to have some of the same consistency that this defense does. That's where things need to be figured out IMO.