FLIP HAS BEEN FIRED!!!

[PurpleMustReign]

Kapp, you talked about managing his staff... What about keeping Priefer around? In five years, he's had four kickers,including what was at one point the second most accurate kicker in NFL history. If it weren't for Marcus Sherels, his punt teams would be God awful. They get burned by fake punts like they are going out of style.
If I were spielman, I'd throw firing Priefer into the mandate as well.

[HardcoreVikesFan]

I was all aboard the Flip hiring this past offseason. Plenty of people will try to deny they were, but Flip's hiring was celebrated by many.

That being said, clearly the guy was overmatched as a coordinator. The weekly arrogance of throwing a screen pass into the blitz was nauseating. The continued gadget plays that had zero positive impact were infuriating. The stretch runs that had poor design to initiate lateral offensive line movement was maddening. I guess we should have paid more attention to his failure with the Browns and not simply wrote it off as being the 'Cleveland Effect.'

What's sad is I still don't know how to feel about Kirk. I was sold initially but he may be mirage. His play has been making me miss Case Keenum sorely. I did want Keenum to stay, but I admit I was initially fine with the Cousins signing.

The biggest oversight is the fact the offensive line remains offensive. Rick Spielman's arrogance with that position group should cost him his job. It's ridiculous.

[Purple Domination]

If Zimmer is ever going to last as Vikings coach, and if he's ever going to turn this team into a contender, I believe he's going to HAVE to give up calling the defense. He needs to be in charge of the entire thing, and it's obvious to me that he can't do that if he's acting as defensive coordinator. If I were Rick Spielman, I'd mandate it after the season. Stop calling the defense, or look for another job.

The problem I have with this is that we would be taking Zimmer out of the role in which he is exceptional and putting him solely in the managerial roles in which he is poor. I think Zimmer NEEDS an established OC that does not need baby sitting. Without this he cannot be an effective head coach. Flip was not the answer for Zim.

I wonder how attractive a coaching destination Minnesota is for an OC? On one hand you have to work with Zimmer, which I am sure is not on the top of any OC's list. But on the other hand, you get Diggs, Thielen, Cousins, and Cook.

I am fine with shaking it up in the special teams department. Priefer has been here a long time and has fielded many solid units, but we need to do everything we can to exorcise the kicking demons.

[J. Kapp 11]

Kapp, you talked about managing his staff... What about keeping Priefer around? In five years, he's had four kickers,including what was at one point the second most accurate kicker in NFL history. If it weren't for Marcus Sherels, his punt teams would be God awful. They get burned by fake punts like they are going out of style.
If I were spielman, I'd throw firing Priefer into the mandate as well.

Totally agree. But that's kind of my point ... Mike Zimmer apparently is a great players' coach, but you have to wonder if he's not a bad coaches' coach because he continues to have all kinds of problems with his coordinators. The only coordinator he doesn't have problems with is defensive coordinator, and as we all know, George Edwards is DC in name only. Mike Zimmer runs the defense, and he's not going to fire himself, or yell at himself, or humiliate himself in the media.

I've been a huge supporter of Mike Zimmer, but at some point, the buck has to stop at the top. And I now realize why I've been so sold on him. It's because one PLAYER after another sings his praises. Coaches he's worked UNDER sing his praises. But he hasn't had coordinators working for him until he got to Minnesota. The truth is that he's not dealing well with his coordinators, and until he does, this team has no chance. And that may ultimately be his downfall.

[J. Kapp 11]

If Zimmer is ever going to last as Vikings coach, and if he's ever going to turn this team into a contender, I believe he's going to HAVE to give up calling the defense. He needs to be in charge of the entire thing, and it's obvious to me that he can't do that if he's acting as defensive coordinator. If I were Rick Spielman, I'd mandate it after the season. Stop calling the defense, or look for another job.

The problem I have with this is that we would be taking Zimmer out of the role in which he is exceptional and putting him solely in the managerial roles in which he is poor. I think Zimmer NEEDS an established OC that does not need baby sitting. Without this he cannot be an effective head coach. Flip was not the answer for Zim.

That's the catch-22, isn't it?

I mean, for me, I have to ask: Do I want a head coach who has no clue on offense, pays no attention to the offense or special teams, and spends all his time coaching defense?

I wonder how attractive a coaching destination Minnesota is for an OC? On one hand you have to work with Zimmer, which I am sure is not on the top of any OC's list. But on the other hand, you get Diggs, Thielen, Cousins, and Cook.

Great question.

I'll just ask you ... if you were an offensive coordinator, either an established one or an up-and-comer, would YOU want to work for a guy who has shown a penchant for burning through both types? It would sure cause me to think twice.

[w_huisman]

The problem I have with this is that we would be taking Zimmer out of the role in which he is exceptional and putting him solely in the managerial roles in which he is poor. I think Zimmer NEEDS an established OC that does not need baby sitting. Without this he cannot be an effective head coach. Flip was not the answer for Zim.

That's the catch-22, isn't it?

I mean, for me, I have to ask: Do I want a head coach who has no clue on offense, pays no attention to the offense or special teams, and spends all his time coaching defense?

I wonder how attractive a coaching destination Minnesota is for an OC? On one hand you have to work with Zimmer, which I am sure is not on the top of any OC's list. But on the other hand, you get Diggs, Thielen, Cousins, and Cook.

Great question.

I'll just ask you ... if you were an offensive coordinator, either an established one or an up-and-comer, would YOU want to work for a guy who has shown a penchant for burning through both types? It would sure cause me to think twice.

If Stephanski works out, who cares?

(fingers crossed and happy the team made the one change available to them now!)

[Mothman]

Jim, I have argued with you about Zimmer practically since he was hired. But I'm starting to change my tune.

Don't get me wrong. DeFilippo was a huge disappointment. He did not come close to taking advantage of the amazing weapons we have at virtually every skill position -- including quarterback, all you Cousins haters. But this is now the second time in three years that our offensive coordinator has been let go. Yes, Norv quit, but does anybody honestly think it wasn't a mutual decision at best?

Mike Zimmer is a great teacher and coach to his players. I truly believe that, and I think that is what has blinded me to him. But I'm realizing now that a head coach also has to manage his staff, and when you consistently run through offensive coordinators like he has, it begs the question as to whether he has the managerial capability. Does he have the people skills? Can he communicate effectively without just bludgeoning people? I'm certainly having my doubts, and in fairness to others who interviewed and rejected him for head coaching positions, that was the concern they had. Add in all the problems we have with special teams, and it's plain to see that the Minnesota Vikings are seriously deficient in the two areas Mike Zimmer doesn't coach. As the head coach, he can't just wash his hands of that.

I honestly would have had more respect for Mike Zimmer if he had waited until the end of the season to fire JDF. If Zimmer is ever going to last as Vikings coach, and if he's ever going to turn this team into a contender, I believe he's going to HAVE to give up calling the defense. He needs to be in charge of the entire thing, and it's obvious to me that he can't do that if he's acting as defensive coordinator. If I were Rick Spielman, I'd mandate it after the season. Stop calling the defense, or look for another job.

Of course, the way this season has gone, Zimmer's seat has to be getting pretty warm. He may not be here come the day after the season.

If the Vikes lose their next 3, it's a possibility, although I doubt they'll lose their next 3 games.

Thanks for the thoughtful comments, Kapp. I think this comment really gets to the heart of the problem: "... it's plain to see that the Minnesota Vikings are seriously deficient in the two areas Mike Zimmer doesn't coach.

I definitely think Zimmer should consider giving up playcalling duties on defense. Edwards did a fine job calling the defense when Zimmer was recovering from eye surgery (I think that game was against Dallas) so maybe he could handle the playcalling without a big drop-off. After all, Zimmer would still be able to involve himself in game-planning and provide some input during games. It's clear that if he's going to be successful, he needs to be able to bring the kind of vision he had for the defense to the rest of the team (or at least someone needs to bring it). The Vikes need an offense that compliments their defense. They need genuine synergy between the two. When Zimmer came to MN, they quickly made personnel changes to get the kind of players he wanted for his defense. That worked well because he clearly knew what he wanted. They need a similarly focused, efficient approach to building on offense and that means they need to know exactly what they want to do and what kind of coaches and players they need to do it.

This Pioneer Press article about an interview Zimmer had before he got the Vikings job sticks with me:

When they resumed, someone lobbed the question toward Zimmer. It seemed easy enough: If you get the job, who do you have in mind for the coaching staff?

Zimmer wouldn’t answer the question. He said he hadn’t thought about it. They pressed him. Still nothing.

Fine, the former executive said they allowed, how about a window into his philosophy — just something to indicate how he’d run their team and build his staff.

Nope, the personnel man would remember; Zimmer wouldn’t go there. He just kept saying he’d figure it out.

“What does that tell us?” the former executive recalled thinking. “It was just kind of unsettling.”

Considering the way his tenure with the Vikings has unfolded, I still find it unsettling.

[PurpleMustReign]

I still bring up Mike Tice. People complain about him but he did something that no Viking coach has djne since, and I wonder how many others have done it... He was an offensive coach. He played tight end, coached tight end, and coached OL. But at one point, his defense was struggling big time. He went away from offense because he trusted his coordinator, and spent time with the defense. And you know what? His defense got better. Not shutdown, but better. They then went into Lambeau and beat the Packers in green Bay.
Zimmer needs to figure out his offense. He is the head coach. He is responsible.

[VikingPaul73]

its seems to me Zimmer and Rick are not aligned on what type of offense they want.

They have invested nothing in the OL, a HUGE amount into QB, and nice big contracts for Thielen and Diggs. They jettisoned AD and picked up Murray with a modest contract but clearly wanted Cook (a 2nd rd pick still under rookie contract) to replace AD (a more multi-dimensional running back for a modern passing offense). Then hired a former QB coach who wanted to run a passing offense.

But it seems Zimmer wants an offense to better compliment his defense. Grind it out. Win the TOP battle. Keep his athletic defense fresh so they can go full speed and dominate.

So why spend $84M on Cousins? Why hire Flip in the first place?

I don't get it. Mike Zimmer, what kind of offense do you want??

[PurpleMustReign]

A lot of Philly fans want flip to come back. I can't imagine why.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Kapp, you talked about managing his staff... What about keeping Priefer around? In five years, he's had four kickers,including what was at one point the second most accurate kicker in NFL history. If it weren't for Marcus Sherels, his punt teams would be God awful. They get burned by fake punts like they are going out of style.
If I were spielman, I'd throw firing Priefer into the mandate as well.

I do agree priefer should be fired. I was complaining about him way back when harvin was traded to Seattle and we played them and he continued to kick to harvin and he went off on us.

[Pondering Her Percy]

That's the catch-22, isn't it?

I mean, for me, I have to ask: Do I want a head coach who has no clue on offense, pays no attention to the offense or special teams, and spends all his time coaching defense?


Great question.

I'll just ask you ... if you were an offensive coordinator, either an established one or an up-and-comer, would YOU want to work for a guy who has shown a penchant for burning through both types? It would sure cause me to think twice.

If Stephanski works out, who cares?

(fingers crossed and happy the team made the one change available to them now!)

I mean it was turner who walked out himself because he wanted to run it his way and Zimmer had a different view. But promoting shurmur was a great move and in turn he turned out to be a great coordinator. It’s not his fault shurmur was hired as a HC. When you get to the nfc championship, usually you’re going to lose coaches. Flip was a bad hire yeah. Is it there fault? Tough to say. Everyone was buying into flip being the next mcvay/nagy and he flopped. Sh** happens. But I really like the idea of stefanski. He’s coached multiple positions, is the longest tenured vikings coach. He knows the players well, works with Kirk closely, is obviously respected by Zimmer given that he blocked him from going to NY. I just have a really good feeling about it. I think this will be similar to a shurmur situation. I’ll be the first to eat crow if it doesn’t but I’m excited

[dead_poet]

I agree this probably needed to happen, but there's obviously more wrong than just JDF. The offensive line is #1 and Cousins isn't doing his job very well either. The guy I saw last night was spooked, tentative and indecisive. Contrast that to watching a dude like Mahomes play and it's night and day.

I don't know about this talk that somehow Zimmer is to blame. He's been pretty adamant about letting his OCs take control of the offense. Isn't it as likely that Norv and JDF were bad at their jobs? I mean, this argument doesn't hold much weight for me after last year. Zimmer was still head coach last year, right? The Vikings were a top-10 offense, #2 on third downs and #2 in ToP.

I think it's pretty clear that Kirk is not Wilson, Cam or Mahomes out there. He needs better protection in order to be effective. The rate he's being pressured is top-3 in the league this year. How much more apparent does this need to be for Rick?

[Mothman]

I agree this probably needed to happen, but there's obviously more wrong than just JDF. The offensive line is #1 and Cousins isn't doing his job very well either. The guy I saw last night was spooked, tentative and indecisive. Contrast that to watching a dude like Mahomes play and it's night and day.

I don't know about this talk that somehow Zimmer is to blame. He's been pretty adamant about letting his OCs take control of the offense.

That's true but he's the head coach, not the defensive coordinator, so he's still responsible for the offense's performance. If he wants to delegate control of the offense to a coordinator, it's his job to pick a good coordinator and have some sort of vision for both the kind of offense he wants and how it should be run. There needs to be some synergy between offense and defense, one unit complimenting the other. He's involved in offseason personnel decisions so he bears some responsibility (though less than Spielman) for determining who will actually be playing in that offense. As head coach, he's responsible for working with the staff to create game plans. If he's not accountable for these things, he's just a defensive coordinator being paid like a head coach.

I think it's pretty clear that Kirk is not Wilson, Cam or Mahomes out there. He needs better protection in order to be effective. The rate he's being pressured is top-3 in the league this year. How much more apparent does this need to be for Rick?

Good question but how much more apparent does it need to be for Zimmer? He's in a position to have genuine influence on such choices and he clearly does. The protection issues both he and Spielman.

Defense is Zim's specialty and defense has been his focus but his responsibility is to the entire team, all 3 units. Two of them have been struggling for the majority of his nearly 5 seasons.

[dead_poet]

That's true but he's the head coach, not the defensive coordinator, so he's still responsible for the offense's performance.

More than the offensive coordinator?

Seems to be if Zimmer is getting hard criticism for JDF, he should get the same credit for Pat last year. All I'm seeing are people (rightfully) praising Pat.

If he wants to delegate control of the offense to a coordinator, it's his job to pick a good coordinator and have some sort of vision for both the kind of offense he wants and how it should be run.

Could it be that he's communicated that vision but ultimately the OC has been unable to effectively carry it out?

And wasn't JDF the consensus "top" OC pick by most everyone? It's easy to criticize the pick now, but at the time everybody thought he was the top dude.

As head coach, he's responsible for working with the staff to create game plans. If he's not accountable for these things, he's just a defensive coordinator being paid like a head coach.

His job is to create game plans, but not call the offensive plays. Did he not work with his staff to create game plans last year? I'm not trying to absolve him of all responsibility, but from my chair the offensive dysfunction is more of a product of the offensive coordinator since most of the same pieces were in place last year and the offense thrived.

Defense is Zim's specialty and defense has been his focus but his responsibility is to the entire team, all 3 units. Two of them have been struggling for the majority of his nearly 5 seasons.

Hopefully they get it figured out. I remain skeptical until the offensive line is addressed and upgraded. It all starts from there.