2017 Vikings Free Agency Thread (Discussion Thread)

[Pondering Her Percy]

I've read them all and even acknowledged your change of heart in my post. In fact, that's part of the point. Before the Vikings signed Reiff, you considered him "Mr. Inconsistency Matt Kalil 2.0". Once he became a Viking, he was suddenly another good move by Rick Spielman. The underlying point isn't just about your change of heart, it's that because of your fluctuating feelings on the subject, you should be able to grasp why some people might not be too excited about the two tackles the Vikings signed.

Once again, I posted after we signed him that I didnt realize how good of a run blocker he was. And yes he was an inconsistent pass blocker. Bottom line was, that was me venting because we didnt get Wagner. I said MULTIPLE times after that I was wrong and went against my own word. I also at the time, thought we would sign him as a RT and still have no LT. And I preferred Wagner over him. In turn, Spielman filled TWO voids by getting him as a LT and Remmers as a RT. That is a GOOD MOVE. He killed two birds with one stone. We only have one hole on our OL vs. two if he signed JUST Wagner or JUST Reiff and kept him at RT.

Yes, and their running game fell to the very bottom of the league without him.

Yeah and it was so good with him this year as he average 1.9 YPC in 3 games and couldn't stay healthy

Please don't bother going down the road saying Adrian Peterson is some huge loss at this point in his career because you'd be wasting your energy.

I haven't said anything along like that. They obviously will be replaced. I'm simply saying these are significant departures and it's not hard to see and understand why some people are concerned about these losses or will simply miss these particular players. I'm saying you should be able to see that.

Yeah I understand "concern" but that's not how it's being put across. I've seen more of these: #####, in the past few days over Spielman between here and twitter its not even funny. I SAID I wish we had CP back did I not?? These losses are being covered and thats what I'm trying to get across to people. They are REPLACEABLE. We are already looking into guys. So instead of dropping 8 of these #.... why don't we wait to see who we sign.

This has nothing to do with me "hating" Spielman and everything to do with me getting tired of watching you bemoan one post after another in which someone indicates they are disappointed or underwhelmed with the way the Vikings are handling this offseason thus far. You meet such posts time and time again with hyperbolic responses. If someone says they're disappointed, that doesn't mean they think the sky is falling. If I say the loss of Adrian Peterson leaves a void, that doesn't mean I'm speaking out of irrational hatred for Rick Spielman. It's simply an acknowledgment of what an all-time great RB and former league MVP has meant to the team.

Lol Jim you mention in A LOT of your posts your lack of confidence in Spileman. Let's not make it some secret here. You aren't a fan of the guy. So I can't tell someone that this isn't the end of the world and we'll find some replacements because we're already looking at some good players?? Is that against the rules or something? When I see someone is "disappointed" over what Spileman is doing, I go on to explaining what he has done already and what he is looking into and that he's assessed big needs, etc. If that tires you so much than I don't know what to tell you.

Also, I never said you saying AP leaves a void results in you speaking out of irrational hated for Spielman. Bottom line is, I don't feel he leaves much of a void. That has nothing to do with Rick Spielman. 5 years ago it leaves a void. It doesnt leave much now. And that hole is easily fillable.

[Mothman]

Once again, I posted after we signed him that I didnt realize how good of a run blocker he was. And yes he was an inconsistent pass blocker. Bottom line was, that was me venting because we didnt get Wagner. I said MULTIPLE times after that I was wrong and went against my own word. I also at the time, thought we would sign him as a RT and still have no LT. And I preferred Wagner over him. In turn, Spielman filled TWO voids by getting him as a LT and Remmers as a RT. That is a GOOD MOVE. He killed two birds with one stone. We only have one hole on our OL vs. two if he signed JUST Wagner or JUST Reiff and kept him at RT.

All of which completely misses the point, which is that, given your previously expressed views on the free agent tackles available and on Reiff in particular, you should be able to grasp why some people aren't pleased even though the Vikings have signed two tackles.

So I can't tell someone that this isn't the end of the world and we'll find some replacements because we're already looking at some good players?? Is that against the rules or something? When I see someone is "disappointed" over what Spileman is doing, I go on to explaining what he has done already and what he is looking into and that he's assessed big needs, etc. If that tires you so much than I don't know what to tell you.

Don't tell me anything. Just listen. As a moderator, I'm asking you not to be so overbearing. From your over-the-top, lengthy and disruptive exchanges with Jordy to your need to repeatedly exaggerate about reactions to free agency that aren't as enthusiastic or optimistic as your own, it's getting to be too much. I'm asking you to tone down the hyperbole a little, be a little less defensive and dismissive and show a bit more empathy for the views of your fellow Vikes fans. They're as entitled to their doubts and disappointments as you are to your unbridled optimism.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Vikings resign Newman. Anyones mind at ease now?

[fiestavike]

Vikings resign Newman. Anyones mind at ease now?

PHP, this is EXACTLY what Jim was just asking you to think about. No need to be so confrontational ALL THE TIME.

[Mothman]

PHP, this is EXACTLY what Jim was just asking you to think about. No need to be so confrontational ALL THE TIME.

Indeed. That is exactly what I was talking about.

As for the Newman signing: I think it should help ease the transition of the secondary to younger players. His skills and experience have been very valuable in a defense that relies so heavily on man-to-man coverage. Hopefully, he has another good year in him.

[MikethePurple]

As for the Newman signing: I think it should help ease the transition of the secondary to younger players. His skills and experience have been very valuable in a defense that relies so heavily on man-to-man coverage. Hopefully, he has another good year in him.

This is good news on a couple fronts. One, I'm very glad for the depth and security that he will provide given that he doesn't drop off this year due to age. However, I hope that Waynes and Alexander are able to step up and provide the bulk of the playing time.

Secondly, there have been concerns about discord within the locker room and the coaching staff, especially with the recent comments by Riki Ellison. I feel like this is a good sign as Newman was placed at the center of some of the drama of Zimmer losing the confidence of the locker room that had taken place last year. Given his age, statements about winning a championship, and the potential choice to just retire, I see it as encouraging for team morale and confidence that he has decided to come back to the Vikes for another year.

[Mothman]

This is good news on a couple fronts. One, I'm very glad for the depth and security that he will provide given that he doesn't drop off this year due to age. However, I hope that Waynes and Alexander are able to step up and provide the bulk of the playing time.

Secondly, there have been concerns about discord within the locker room and the coaching staff, especially with the recent comments by Riki Ellison. I feel like this is a good sign as Newman was placed at the center of some of the drama of Zimmer losing the confidence of the locker room that had taken place last year. Given his age, statements about winning a championship, and the potential choice to just retire, I see it as encouraging for team morale and confidence that he has decided to come back to the Vikes for another year.

That's an excellent point, Mike.

[PurpleKoolaid]

So they dont want to take a chance on ex Packer, Lacy, but sign a bust like ex Packer Datone Jones???

And now they are talking to Murry for RB? The guy cant catch, and is probably half of AD's speed and initial burst (and no, I dont want AD back).

This is the type of signings and cuts Rick does. I cant wait till he is cut. He has done nothing for this team. Any good we have seen in players/drafts come mainly from Zimmer.

[losperros]

So they dont want to take a chance on ex Packer, Lacy, but sign a bust like ex Packer Datone Jones???

And now they are talking to Murry for RB? The guy cant catch, and is probably half of AD's speed and initial burst (and no, I dont want AD back).

This is the type of signings and cuts Rick does. I cant wait till he is cut. He has done nothing for this team. Any good we have seen in players/drafts come mainly from Zimmer.

I'm also wondering about Datone Jones. Not sure about that acquisition. Maybe they passed on Lacy because of his sometimes spotty work ethic. I have no idea.

OTOH, I mildly disagree with you about Latavius Murray. Actually, the guy has an impressive burst, especially for a big back. Murray has even shown it on the track. He's clocked sub 4.4/40 times.

But you're right about him not being as fast as AD. Murray is quick but his sustained speed is nothing like Peterson's top end. Murray can pop through the line of scrimmage and accelerate, but defenders can catch him from behind after that.

[YikesVikes]

Will guys just let free agency take its course?? These players are replaceable. The sky isn't falling. We have guys on visits. There are others we're interested in. Relax and see what happens

I'm sure you said the samething about our OL signings in 2016.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I'm sure you said the samething about our OL signings in 2016.

Ok then why don't you tell me how you wouldve assessed the OL if you were Rick Spielman this offseason?? Lets hear it

[YikesVikes]

Patterson's value as a kick returner is vastly overrated. He only returned 25 kicks last season as most of the kickoffs sent his way sailed out the back of the endzone. His average return length was 31 yards, and since he was returning most of those from the middle/back of the endzone, on average, the Vikings would have had better starting field position if he had downed the ball. The one touchdown was nice, but it added 4 yards to his return average, which even further illustrates that the team would be better off on average for him to down the ball. He is a dynamic returner, but it just doesn't matter that much anymore. The rules have changed to such a degree that it isn't an important position any longer. In a year or two when they eliminate the kickoff, his value there will be 0.

Is he worth 5 million as a WR? I think its a legitimate question, and I could argue both sides.

I couldn't disagree more.
Opposing teams often refuse to kick to CP for fear of a big return. They damn sure do not play the pop fly kick that has become so much more popular since the touchback rule was extended. Your vision on the limits of his impact is a bit shortsighted. Add to the fact that he is an impressive gunner on a team that is all about the defense holding on as long as possible while the offense gets itself together and his importance increases. Lastly, we are/were a short passing team last season and his skillset is possibly the best at taking those short catches and doing something with it. Why not cut Wright and make a bit more room to bring CP back?

[YikesVikes]

Ok then why don't you tell me how you wouldve assessed the OL if you were Rick Spielman this offseason?? Lets hear it

My focus would have been on getting the best talent available. I am fine with the the Reiff signing to be honest. Remmers, I would have passed on in exchange for TJ Lang. RT could then be addressed in the Draft or in cast off from FA. I am more confident in the organization finding a good RT than a good guard. Remmers is a liability.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I couldn't disagree more.
Opposing teams often refuse to kick to CP for fear of a big return. They damn sure do not play the pop fly kick that has become so much more popular since the touchback rule was extended. Your vision on the limits of his impact is a bit shortsighted. Add to the fact that he is an impressive gunner on a team that is all about the defense holding on as long as possible while the offense gets itself together and his importance increases. Lastly, we are/were a short passing team last season and his skillset is possibly the best at taking those short catches and doing something with it. Why not cut Wright and make a bit more room to bring CP back?

Well that's one side of it like he was saying. The other side would be, they don't kick to him as often which results in less returns, from a WR standpoint, Wright is probably better, we have a lot of big contracts coming up that we need the money for (Rhodes this year and others in the following year), we still need to sign some depth and possibly a nickel DB, we spent a first round pick on Treadwell and need to see what we have in him and it was rumored that CP wanted commitment that he would get more time at WR.

[YikesVikes]

Well that's one side of it like he was saying. The other side would be, they don't kick to him as often which results in less returns, from a WR standpoint, Wright is probably better, we have a lot of big contracts coming up that we need the money for (Rhodes this year and others in the following year), we still need to sign some depth and possibly a nickel DB, we spent a first round pick on Treadwell and need to see what we have in him and it was rumored that CP wanted commitment that he would get more time at WR.

We just found similar money for D. Jones. Are you being serious talking about what we need. Wright being slightly better than him as a WR, has nothing to do with the fact that he offers nothing on ST. ST is an important aspect of the game of football. It is even more important given that we have an anemic offense.