Options at QB

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How would you attempt replace Bridgewater?

Sign Michael Vick
6
15%
Sign Nick Foles
1
3%
Sign Mark Sanchez
8
20%
Stick with Hill/Stave
13
33%
Trade for a player (Please specify)
12
30%
 
Total votes: 40

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Mothman
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Re: Options at QB

Post by Mothman »

mansquatch wrote:Lets say they do that and they keep tossing 2nd-4th round picks at the back up role. How many busts will be tolerated before someone asks "We keep blowing picks on backups, but our OL sucks, umm what?" Also, why would they toss another early round pick at QB after drafting a guy 3 years ago? Does any NFL team do that? GB didn't use one on Rogers until what, 12-13 years into Favre's tenure there?
Why would they toss another early round pick at the position after drafting a guy 3 years ago? Aren't the answers obvious? Why did they select a first round QB in 2014 after drafting one in 2012? They need to address the position and solve the problem.

They also need to have a Plan B because when their Plan A QB fails or suffers a catastrophic injury, having a solid backup plan in place who is already familiar with the system can prevent a season from going up in flames and can also prevent a situation exactly like the one the team faces now.

Of course, as I pointed out earlier, they don't necessarily have to use early round picks to address the backup position with a young talent and still do better than undrafted free agents and past-their-mediocre-prime journeymen.
I guess another way to look at it is to go this route: What team with a QB under 28 years of age that is considered a franchise guy is investing early (round 1-3) picks in Quarterbacks? AJ McCarron was a 5th round pick BTW. We've got our Joel Stave on the roster, so how come he represents bad roster management but a 5th rounder, ergo McCarron is drafting foresight? Just not seeing it.
You don't see a difference in quality between Stave and McCarron?

You're imposing this Round 1-3 criteria on this subject. The Vikings may need to draft a QB that high again because of Bridgewater's injury but if he was healthy, they could possibly do what I'm suggesting a little later (not that a third round investment in a good backup QB would be a bad idea).
Or put it even a third way: Which NFL team could have their starting QB have happen to them what we just had with TB and not be up turd creek without a paddle? Does ANYONE here really think the Cowboys are going to have a solid season this year with their current QB situation? To me this is just silly. You guys are ragging on the front office because they do not do something that hardly any other NFL team does.
I'm suggesting what I consider a smart strategy and criticizing the Vikings for not learning from past mistakes. There ARE other NFL teams that do this. The Bengals are doing it. The Redskins did it. The Raiders are doing it. The Chargers did it. New England, KC, Green Bay at times... Seattle did it and it worked out brilliantly for them.

developing young, quality depth at QB is not a new or novel idea.
Most teams take a shot with a high pick on a QB prospect when the current franchise guy is aging. When they don't have "that guy" they have to spend high picks until they find him, but it also takes a few years to determine whether or not the current high pick is "that guy." We are going into year 3 of the TB era and you guys are ticked off that after year 2 they didn't toss another pick on another QB in the early rounds.
No, that's a misrepresentation of our argument. I'm ticked off that they thought the QB depth chart they had was adequate, not that they haven't spent another early round pick on a QB since 2014.
As I always ask on this stuff, what are willing to give up for that because if you draft a QB in round 2, then you are not drafting something else there. Should we have given up on Kendricks or Alexander to have a Jimy Garropolo on the roster instead? That is basically what you are advocating.
I'm advocating good scouting and smart choices to address a long-term problem. It's easy to pick a few players like you did above and make the idea sound questionable. Would I rather have Garoppalo than Kendricks or Alexander? I don't know but I'd certainly rather have Russell Wilson than Josh Robinson, who the Vikes selected ahead of him in R3 of 2012. I'd rather have Kirk Cousins than Jarius Wright or Connor Cook than Willie Beavers.

You're making something quite practical and reasonable sound impossible. It's not. Furthermore, it's necessary. Depth at QB is crucial and it's even more crucial to find a viable, productive long term starter. Bridgewater's chances of being that guy just got considerably worse and frankly, they didn't look that great in the first place. I see no reason keep approaching the position as the Vikes have been approaching it. The Vikes haven't been landing top-of-the-first round Manning types with the early picks they've spent on QBs so they need to keep digging, keep scouting and grinding. They need to have a Plan A and a Plan B. Solve the problem. Create good depth at the position. It's smart. It's certainly better than ending up in the position they're in now or the position they were in when Ponder failed or the position they were in when Favre retired...
fiestavike
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Re: Options at QB

Post by fiestavike »

Mothman wrote: Why would they toss another early round pick at the position after drafting a guy 3 years ago? Aren't the answers obvious? Why did they select a first round QB in 2014 after drafting one in 2012? They need to address the position and solve the problem.

They also need to have a Plan B because when their Plan A QB fails or suffers a catastrophic injury, having a solid backup plan in place who is already familiar with the system can prevent a season from going up in flames and can also prevent a situation exactly like the one the team faces now.

Of course, as I pointed out earlier, they don't necessarily have to use early round picks to address the backup position with a young talent and still do better than undrafted free agents and past-their-mediocre-prime journeymen.
You don't see a difference in quality between Stave and McCarron?

You're imposing this Round 1-3 criteria on this subject. The Vikings may need to draft a QB that high again because of Bridgewater's injury but if he was healthy, they could possibly do what I'm suggesting a little later (not that a third round investment in a good backup QB would be a bad idea).
I'm suggesting what I consider a smart strategy and criticizing the Vikings for not learning from past mistakes. There ARE other NFL teams that do this. The Bengals are doing it. The Redskins did it. The Raiders are doing it. The Chargers did it. New England, KC, Green Bay at times... Seattle did it and it worked out brilliantly for them.

developing young, quality depth at QB is not a new or novel idea.
No, that's a misrepresentation of our argument. I'm ticked off that they thought the QB depth chart they had was adequate, not that they haven't spent another early round pick on a QB since 2014.
I'm advocating good scouting and smart choices to address a long-term problem. It's easy to pick a few players like you did above and make the idea sound questionable. Would I rather have Garoppalo than Kendricks or Alexander? I don't know but I'd certainly rather have Russell Wilson than Josh Robinson, who the Vikes selected ahead of him in R3 of 2012. I'd rather have Kirk Cousins than Jarius Wright or Connor Cook than Willie Beavers.

You're making something quite practical and reasonable sound impossible. It's not. Furthermore, it's necessary. Depth at QB is crucial and it's even more crucial to find a viable, productive long term starter. Bridgewater's chances of being that guy just got considerably worse and frankly, they didn't look that great in the first place. I see no reason keep approaching the position as the Vikes have been approaching it. The Vikes haven't been landing top-of-the-first round Manning types with the early picks they've spent on QBs so they need to keep digging, keep scouting and grinding. They need to have a Plan A and a Plan B. Solve the problem. Create good depth at the position. It's smart. It's certainly better than ending up in the position they're in now or the position they were in when Ponder failed or the position they were in when Favre retired...
I agree with your general premiss. It would make sense to invest more in the backup QB spot. It is worth considering though, that the team might think Heineke is that guy? That doesn't answer not doing more to address the QB position since at least 1990 though, as the Vikings have primarily trotted out a bunch of stop gaps and failed draft picks.
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dead_poet
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Re: Options at QB

Post by dead_poet »

Steelers claimed Mett
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halfgiz
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Re: Options at QB

Post by halfgiz »

I think the mess up in this case is, when they knew Heinicke was going to be out for a while they should have started looking for a better QB than just a camp arm.
They even ended a practice because they didn't have enough QB's.
They rolled the dice and it come back to bite them.
The Defense seems squared away... but the offense is a big cluster. Who's responsible ??

Were always reading articles where the defense is making great strides. Very seldom do I read that about the offense.
Why is that??

Ok I feel better now :tongue:

Thanks DP!
Norv Zimmer
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Re: Options at QB

Post by Norv Zimmer »

Man, Heineke is probably kicking himself right now.... He would probably be our starter if he wasn't such a moron....
John_Viveiros
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Re: Options at QB

Post by John_Viveiros »

Personally, I would feel a lot better about this had it not been for the stupid Heinecke NFI. I like Teddy, but I could see going into the season with Hill and Heinecke, with Stave on the practice squad. Heck, if we lost Hill and Heinecke and had to go with Stave... we'd be in the same position as any other NFL team that lost their top three QB's - up sh!t creek. Well, technically we're only one Thursday night injury away from that scenario.

Part of me wants to get after this - to try to salvage the season, to find a guy that maybe we can count on for a handful of starts. That was my first inclination, and probably Spielman's also, as there's word that he talking to the Broncos about Sanchez. I voted Sanchez in the poll. I think he has potential - maybe after all these years, we can cut down the turnovers and get some serviceable starts.

But I may be transitioning to a different place. Why not just wait a bit, take a deep breath, and see how things fall out?
*Right now, it's a seller's market for QB's. I really wouldn't want to give up anything more than a 5th, and probably lower than that, for a guy who is just going to be holding the clipboard for a while as he gets accustomed to our system. And then we're really talking about renting the guy for only a year, until we get Teddy back.
*A boatload of QB's will be released in the final cuts. Will the Broncos really want to carry Sanchez's salary guaranteed for the year (I think that's the case)? Equally, any veteran QB we sign before the first game probably has his salary guaranteed for the season. Cap consequences?
*Heinecke is coming back in a month, it seems. I thought the guy looked really good last year in preseason, maybe better than Teddy. Yes. Preseason. Yes. Against backups. But alternatively, he could have stunk it up. I can dream the Tom Brady or Kurt Warner scenario with Heinecke. I can't see it at all with Hill and Stave.
*The Superbowl window has almost certainly closed for the year, unless we are talking about parting with stud players or top draft choices, and I don't think anyone wants to do that. So how important is it to get McCarron, so that we can go 10-6 this year, as opposed to going 7-9 with Hill and Stave (just throwing numbers out there).
*If this defense is as good as we think/hope, maybe we only need 17 points per game, and maybe we can get that from the guys we have.
*There's something I like about Zimmer circling the wagons with the guys we have, and challenging them to win the games with who we have, rather than going out to try to find a QB "savior" for the season, outside of the guys we already have ("you 53 guys aren't good enough for me - I need to find someone else"). I think Zim can make this work for him.

One thing is for sure. The season just became a lot more interesting. I have no idea where this team will end up. 11-5? 5-11? Neither would really surprise me. The last two years were really predictable to me. We were within a game of what most of us were thinking, one way or another. Time to resurrect the "predict the Vikings record" thread...
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Texas Vike
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Re: Options at QB

Post by Texas Vike »

Solid take, John. I think I agree with you. Wait and see who's available after cuts.
Jordysghost
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Re: Options at QB

Post by Jordysghost »

Sorry, not understanding the 'Our SB hopes are gone without Teddy', look, I know you all like Teddy, I do to, but his numbers? Their already backup numbers,. Im interested to see how your staff handle this, because I don't think your in as bad a situation as alot of teams would be without the starter.
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halfgiz
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Re: Options at QB

Post by halfgiz »

Glennon on NFL network playing Redskins if you want a look at him.
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Re: Options at QB

Post by HardcoreVikesFan »

Eight years ago the Vikings were quarterbacked by Gus Ferrotte and Tarvaris Jackson. They went 10-6 and made the playoffs.

This team is more talented and will be lead by a quarterback equal to the caliber of both of those players.

Just for some perspective. I am not ready to give up on this team or this season.
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James
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Re: Options at QB

Post by James »

I say stick with Hill. Yes I know NFL career isn't appealing but he knows the playbook better than anybody we bring in. Plus none of the possible FAs are any better IMO. We still have good pieces surrounding the QB position. I think decent QB performance can get us into the post season. I'm just not going to even stress over our QB situation. Maybe it wasn't meant to be, atleast for this season. But who knows. Maybe Hill, can muster up atleast one good season in his body.
PurpleHalo
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Re: Options at QB

Post by PurpleHalo »

Jordysghost wrote: I doubt they would let him go as well, but if they did, what of Bridgewater's future? A trade would be an awful lot for a 1 year rental, unless you intend on letting McCarron have an opportunity at holding the job for the long term should he play well.
This could very well be 18-24 months. And if you stand pat for 2 years, and find out he is never right again? You simply can't do that, you have 52 other guys who want to win.

This team should have already had a good backup option in place, but now they must draft someone, and someone high. The worst thing that can happen is you have 2 that can play in 2018.
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Jordysghost
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Re: Options at QB

Post by Jordysghost »

PurpleHalo wrote: I doubt they would let him go as well, but if they did, what of Bridgewater's future? A trade would be an awful lot for a 1 year rental, unless you intend on letting McCarron have an opportunity at holding the job for the long term should he play well.
This could very well be 18-24 months. And if you stand pat for 2 years, and find out he is never right again? You simply can't do that, you have 52 other guys who want to win.

This team should have already had a good backup option in place, but now they must draft someone, and someone high. The worst thing that can happen is you have 2 that can play in 2018.[/quote]

If you wanted to make McCarron a long term option, i'd understand that, but I personally would look to the draft for that, and sign the best available free agent. Now if they thought McCarron was both and adequate long term option and also the best available short term fix go right ahead.
"Follow my lead today, whos goona be the big dog with me?" - Aaron Rodgers, February 6th, 2011
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Re: Options at QB

Post by Boon »

dead_poet wrote:Steelers claimed Mett
Good, that will make people stop saying his name, dude is garbage
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halfgiz
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Re: Options at QB

Post by halfgiz »

halfgiz wrote:Glennon on NFL network playing Redskins if you want a look at him.
1-5 -1 yard passing Pouring rain.
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