Cordarrelle Patterson

[fiestavike]

Patterson

“I just approached this whole year way different than what I’ve been doing,” Patterson said. “I’m a lot more focused, and I’m just trying to work on my craft, getting in and out of breaks and trying to get the timing good with Teddy [Bridgewater], trying to get the timing and pattern down-pat.”

http://www.vikings.com/news/article-1/S ... 132da08d64

Better late than never.

[Mothman]

Patterson
http://www.vikings.com/news/article-1/S ... 132da08d64

Better late than never.

Thanks for the link. It just raises all the same questions for me and nobody seems to have answers so I won't go into them again.

[fiestavike]

Thanks for the link. It just raises all the same questions for me and nobody seems to have answers so I won't go into them again.

Fair enough. Collectively the above quotes answer more questions than they raise for me.

I'm REALLY hoping Patterson does enough to get back on the field and make an impact in 2016.

[mansquatch]

It sounds like they are implying that this will be the year they give him an opportunity. Seeing as it is a contract year for him, that makes sense. The comments about trust and precision were I think quite telling with regards to where Patterson is at. You get a sense that this coaching staff has a VERY low tolerance for stupid mistakes that lead to things like turnovers. One conclusion we could draw by taking it further is that while Patterson can present a dynamic threat with the ball in his hands, in the course of running the offense his talents are over shadowed by the issues with his lack of focus and getting him the ball. One might conjecture that the coaches feel this "cost" of having him on the field isn't fully offset by his talent and playmaking potential. Again, that is pure extrapolation on my part, but it doesn't seem totally unreasonable.

Just a guess, but perhaps the whole CP84 story is one of an immature kid being asked to grow up. Maybe it is a good thing? Imagine how great Randy Moss could have been if he had had this kind of treatment early in his career? As great as he was, he wasted a lot of talent due to his immaturity. Denny and Tice were willing to tolerate it due to what he could do in the deep passing game, but ultimately that tolerance led to Moss having less of a career than he could have had.

[fiestavike]

It sounds like they are implying that this will be the year they give him an opportunity. Seeing as it is a contract year for him, that makes sense. The comments about trust and precision were I think quite telling with regards to where Patterson is at. You get a sense that this coaching staff has a VERY low tolerance for stupid mistakes that lead to things like turnovers. One conclusion we could draw by taking it further is that while Patterson can present a dynamic threat with the ball in his hands, in the course of running the offense his talents are over shadowed by the issues with his lack of focus and getting him the ball. One might conjecture that the coaches feel this "cost" of having him on the field isn't fully offset by his talent and playmaking potential. Again, that is pure extrapolation on my part, but it doesn't seem totally unreasonable.

Just a guess, but perhaps the whole CP84 story is one of an immature kid being asked to grow up. Maybe it is a good thing? Imagine how great Randy Moss could have been if he had had this kind of treatment early in his career? As great as he was, he wasted a lot of talent due to his immaturity. Denny and Tice were willing to tolerate it due to what he could do in the deep passing game, but ultimately that tolerance led to Moss having less of a career than he could have had.

That's an interesting observation. I don't think Randy would have responded as well as Patterson and he might have been "wasted"as a result. He likely would have become a cancer and the team would not be taking advantage of his monster production, but the team would have held a standard that in the long run might have yielded better results. Moss is an extreme example because of HOW productive he was, but those coaches compromised the culture of the team to chase production and I think it cost them. Its an extreme example of why I am glad this coaching staff is resisting that temptation with Cordarelle.

[mansquatch]

There is a similarity in the immaturity aspect of both players. (On the field there is no similarity, Randy was a once in a generation talent) You get a sense from watching CP84 that he just wants to go out there and make plays and enjoy the fanfare for doing so. The details are not that important to him, and why would they be? He was raw in college and made enough of a name for himself with his raw talent to get taken in the first round of the NFL draft.

Frasier/Musgrave it would seem were content continuing this trend and just putting his talent on the field. Of course, there other dynamics at play that season, both were basically coaching for their jobs and thus were willing to take bigger risks. They got canned and then Zimmer/ Turner come in and immediately change the entire paradigm of how the franchise operates. Now we have a professional organization that is demanding. It is adult, it wants results, and no one is special. That is a pretty massive pendulum shift. Other players talked about the change to Zim in his first season, many welcoming it over Frasier's more relaxed style. My guess is CP84 was not in the "welcoming" crowd.

Given this is year 3 of that change and CP84 was a young, immature man coming into the league, the past few season start to actually make more sense. Look at how Zimmer and co have handled Bridgewater. It is obvious that they have preached conservatism to him first. Only this offseason have they backed away a bit and said OK, low INT is good, but you need to make more plays, so it is OK to take "some" additional risk. Bounce that mentality off of a guy like CP84 who is basically a player who cut his bread by making the most of his athletic talent. Now he is being asked to do a complete 180 and have attention to detail to the hard and boring nuances of the position he plays. That is a HUGE change for a young kid that came out of environments that were more about just focusing on what he did well and not asking him to grow. (Wasn't his wonderlic score abyssmal?) Now suddenly he is asked to be not just a pro, but a consummate pro. That is a big change.

I'm actually kind rooting for him to do well now, not just as a Vikings fan, but also to see him overcome these challenges and grow into a more mature man. I could be wrong of course, but reading this stuff and watching him over the years, this seems like a reasonable line of thinking about the kid.

[fiestavike]

Frasier/Musgrave it would seem were content continuing this trend and just putting his talent on the field. Of course, there other dynamics at play that season, both were basically coaching for their jobs and thus were willing to take bigger risks. They got canned and then Zimmer/ Turner come in and immediately change the entire paradigm of how the franchise operates. Now we have a professional organization that is demanding. It is adult, it wants results, and no one is special. That is a pretty massive pendulum shift.

I think other than an attempt from Childress to hold a similar standard, this team has never had even a hint of that kind of accountability from the top during the time I've been a fan. Big problem for Childress is I don't think he had the credibility, leadership skills or personality to ever succeed as an NFL head coach and so it didn't work. Its the reason the Vikes have always been at the kiddie table, even when they had talented rosters.

[mansquatch]

I agree 100% with that observation. This iteration of the franchise is the most professional that I've seen as a fan. IMO, Zimmer and Co are the best coaches we've seen in Purple in 30 years that i've been a serious fan. I know they are not perfect, but this is the first time i can remember where I've watched the team play and going into every game you could realistically feel like they had a chance to beat the other team. They haven't always delivered, but the 2015 team had grit the likes of which I cannot recall seeing in another Vikings squad.

I hope the trend continues, I love watching teams like this that play with so much heart and dedication.

[Mothman]

I don't how much more of the myth-making surrounding Zimmer I can take. I really don't...

[fiestavike]

I don't how much more of the myth-making surrounding Zimmer I can take. I really don't...

Sorry Jim. Do you really feel like Dennis Green, Mike Tice, or Leslie Frazier held this team to a high standard? Do you feel Zimmer isn't holding them to a high standard? Where do we diverge on this issue?

[dead_poet]

I don't how much more of the myth-making surrounding Zimmer I can take. I really don't...

It's myth-making to feel encouraged by the direction of the team under the leadership of Mike Zimmer? I mean, that was one person's feeling on the team; they didn't wax hyperbole a la Bill Brasky that I saw. Unless you mean in aggregate or something? I'm not sure people are saying he walks with a giant blue ox, showers in ball bearings and has a tarp at Yankee Stadium made entirely out of his foreskin.

[Mothman]

Sorry Jim. Do you really feel like Dennis Green, Mike Tice, or Leslie Frazier held this team to a high standard? Do you feel Zimmer isn't holding them to a high standard? Where do we diverge on this issue?

It depends on what sort of standard we're talking about. I definitely think Frazier did. In purely football terms, I think Tice did too but he was asked to handle more than he was qualified to handle and the McCombs era was so dysfunctional that it's impossible to suggest that team was particularly professional. Dennis Green absolutely held his team to a high standard when he took over but as the ownership and management situation grew weirder and he sought more authority within the organization, I think that professionalism eventually went a bit south (that was pretty late in his tenure). However, when he arrived in Minnesota, he definitely changed the culture of the team. His staff produced future Super Bowl-winning coaches like Dungy and Billick, which I think speaks to his standards and despite coming up short of reaching the Super Bowl, he did field a dominant, 15 win team that looked capable of winning it. I don't think that's even possible without setting a pretty high standard, nor was reaching the playoffs in 8 of his first 9 years as a head coach.

I had my issues with Green but overall, he set a pretty high standard, even if he "chased" that old devil production by playing Randy Moss.

Where I really part ways is when the implications that Zimmer is the best Vikings coach we've seen since Grant start flying.The idea that his program is significantly more "adult" and professional than that of his predecessor, (or, apparently, all of his Vikings predecessors that aren't in the Hall of Fame) strikes me as hyperbole, to say the least. The legend of his head coaching prowess far outweighs his accomplishments over two years.

[Mothman]

It's myth-making to feel encouraged by the direction of the team under the leadership of Mike Zimmer?

No, and I can't emphasize enough that I did not say that. I'm encouraged myself and I have no problem with people feeling optimistic. It's the hyperbole and glimpses of blind faith that get to me most. i see no need to build him up into a coach he hasn't established himself to be yet. Let him get there first.

I mean, that was one person's feeling on the team; they didn't wax hyperbole a la Bill Brasky that I saw. Unless you mean in aggregate or something?

That's exactly what I mean: in aggregate, over the 2+ years since he was hired. He's been treated like a savior and it seems he's perceived as one.

I'm not sure people are saying he walks with a giant blue ox, showers in ball bearings and has a tarp at Yankee Stadium made entirely out of his foreskin.

Ewwww....

... and give it time.

[fiestavike]

Where I really part ways is when the implications that Zimmer is the best Vikings coach we've seen since Grant start flying.The idea that his program is significantly more "adult" and professional than that of his predecessor, (or, apparently, all of his Vikings predecessors that aren't in the Hall of Fame) strikes me as hyperbole, to say the least. The legend of his head coaching prowess far outweighs his accomplishments over two years.

I think the measure of how hyperbolic that sentiment is depends on one's analysis of the coaches the Vikings have had since Bud Grant. I don't go back that far, but I can say with comfort I believe he's the best coach since before Dennis Green and I don't think that's a tremendous compliment. That mantle might have belonged to Mike Tice until Zimmer came along!

I think Mike Zimmer is a very good coach. I don't feel its necessary to wait until he wins a super bowl to say that. I hope that's not myth making.

[mansquatch]

All I said was that I feel like this team is more professional and better organized than any of the four previous regimes. Given that those regimes are Frasier, Childress, Tice, and Green is there really that much debate?

Zimmer IMO gets the mantle at this point not so much because of what he has done, but because the previous four were really no that great.

Let's take Green out of the picture for a moment. Would anyone on here argue that Frasier, Childress, or Mike Tice were better coaches than Zimmer? IMO, the answer there is an obvious one.
Childress: More organized than previous two, but a total disaster in terms of people skills
Tice: Basically Dennis Green Lite, had no control over the team, openly played favorites.
Frasier: The most organized and professional of the three, but ultimately failed at motivating the team. Also his schemes and playstyle were long in the tooth when he took the job and he never really adapted. Look at what Zimmer did with his personnel in his first season.

So to me these three are not really worth debating

So that leaves Denny:

Green is in many ways the Anti-Zimmer. He was a pure player's coach and ran the team on raw emotion. He had his favorites, but the team in general loved him. Definitely a strong motivator. On Game Day, he was... not the best.

I think one can debate Zimmer vs. Green, but for me what takes it is the professionalism of Zimmer. Zimmer wants his guys emotionally invested, but he also wants them to be pros. I never got the same sense from Denny. That is my personal preference and observation.

So IMO, Zimmer is the finest coach we've seen in 30 years. it isn't a myth, it's an observation.

Also, Burns is not on this list because I didn't watch the team much then.