TSonn wrote:I still think Teddy will be a good QB for us, but the sentiment around here is that he is already a bust.
It actually seems quite mixed, ranging from "he's a bust" to "he's still the future" with people parked at almost every stop in-between.
In that sense, we haven't had a good QB since Favre and then Culpepper before him. Maybe it actually has something to do with the vision of our team? Maybe because we have barely spent any decent draft picks on our OLine? Maybe even having AD somehow prevents us from having a great passing attack?
If we've had bad QB play for a decade (aside from 2009), it's gotta be something more than just choosing the wrong starters. No way to prove this, but I get the sense that if Carr and Bridgewater switched teams, Carr would have similar stats to Bridgewater now based on the structure and philosophy of the team.
I don't get that sense but I think you've asked some good questions. I think Carr would fare better in this offense because he has the downfield passing ability to help open it up and allow Turner to run his system as it's designed. Ditto for Bortles (not that he was an option for the Vikings).
I don't think Peterson in any way precludes a great passing attack but his skill set clearly complements some approaches better than others. I feel the main issues have been their choice of QBs and their approaches to developing them.
Teddy is regressing faster than Ponder. Ponder never really looked like he was the answer, although he had some ok days. Teddy looked good at many times last season, the game against the Jets in particular. This season, he has not yet had a good game. He hasn't blown games like Ponder, but he hasn't had a game that makes me think, "Yeah, he's the one". It's so pathetic.
Maybe the concussion really messed him up, and I know he has hurt ribs or shoulder or something. Maybe we need to sit him and let Hill start, it isn't like we are going to beat Arizona anyway.
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." #SKOL2018
autobon7 wrote:
This X 1000......I'm on the fence with TB but feel like with this being his second season and IF we were to change OC then would have to see how he would perform and that would take time. Prolly gunna be the starter for at least the duration of his contract. At this point I'm not so sure he is the main problem. Imho it's the Turners first....OL second
I'm starting to think that as well, regardless of what you think of Teddy, no QB we put back there is going to have success with norv and this O-line. I'm just not willing to give up on a guy that had such a good rookie year when it's so obvious so many other things around him are so bad and we forced him to do a complete 180 on his role. Sometimes it just takes time for it to all come together, If everyone here got there way we would have given up on Andy Dalton a long time ago who in his 5th year finally looks like a borderline elite QB now.
Norv's been passed around the league like a used mule, you would think if he was still pulling his weight one of the other 6 teams that had him before us would have kept him around yet he's been fired every time. His game plan today was just atrocious, I hate childress with a passion but that garbage today would give chilly's kick #### offense a run for it's money. Patterson outscored his offense today, yet continues to ride the bench, that's be funny if it didn't hurt so bad.
I don't understand how Clemmings is still starting, even if you think he's our best option you still have to TRY someone else because quite frankly they couldn't be much worse.
mondry wrote:I don't understand how Clemmings is still starting, even if you think he's our best option you still have to TRY someone else because quite frankly they couldn't be much worse.
Hell, put Asiata over there, at least he can block.
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." #SKOL2018
I know the line is very injured and bad, I understand that.
But we got Peterson back and Bridgewater has many more snaps and attempts under his belt.
He started 12 games last year, has started 12 games now.
He has fewer attempts, completions, yards per attempt, has rushed fewer times for fewer yards, has more fumbles, more lost fumbles, has 4 fewer interceptions but 6 fewer TDs. It's a regression. This team doesn't know how to get the QB into the red zone via passing or rushing. It's pretty shocking,
Mothman wrote:It actually seems quite mixed, ranging from "he's a bust" to "he's still the future" with people parked at almost every stop in-between.
Good catch! My "around here" was more specifically this thread titled "Bridge to nowhere". Around the whole board there does seem to be a good combination of attitudes towards Teddy.
Mothman wrote:
I don't get that sense but I think you've asked some good questions. I think Carr would fare better in this offense because he has the downfield passing ability to help open it up and allow Turner to run his system as it's designed. Ditto for Bortles (not that he was an option for the Vikings).
I don't think Peterson in any way precludes a great passing attack but his skill set clearly complements some approaches better than others. I feel the main issues have been their choice of QBs and their approaches to developing them.
I would argue there is plenty of evidence that suggests any QB starting for us would struggle since that has been the only case aside from Favre. How many guys have we had since Favre? 6? And they've all put up pedestrian numbers.
Of course, I'd love for there to be evidence of the contrary, but that would mean we've had QB success since drafting AD. I love me some AD but maybe there is something to his game that hurts our passing game. Heck, it even seems like Teddy played better last year when AD was out. Sure there are other factors like a healthier line last year (although wasn't last year when Kalil was garbage?) and we had different receivers (Jennings v Wallace), but a consistent factor in our decade of bad QB play has been having AD in the backfield.
Last edited by TSonn on Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
mondry wrote:I'm starting to think that as well, regardless of what you think of Teddy, no QB we put back there is going to have success with norv and this O-line. I'm just not willing to give up on a guy that had such a good rookie year when it's so obvious so many other things around him are so bad and we forced him to do a complete 180 on his role. Sometimes it just takes time for it to all come together, If everyone here got there way we would have given up on Andy Dalton a long time ago who in his 5th year finally looks like a borderline elite QB now.
Norv's been passed around the league like a used mule, you would think if he was still pulling his weight one of the other 6 teams that had him before us would have kept him around yet he's been fired every time. His game plan today was just atrocious, I hate childress with a passion but that garbage today would give chilly's kick #### offense a run for it's money. Patterson outscored his offense today, yet continues to ride the bench, that's be funny if it didn't hurt so bad.
I don't understand how Clemmings is still starting, even if you think he's our best option you still have to TRY someone else because quite frankly they couldn't be much worse.
Ultimately, responsibility for all of the above falls on Zimmer, not just Turner. I understand why the latter is usually the one singled out in posts about the offense but he's still the OC, not the head coach.
I just don't think he will ever thrive in this system....and a lot of that opinion has to do with mechanics and throwing motion.
I do think he could be really effective in a more spread type of read offense...but even then his downfield inability would have me wanting another guy who may be available down the road.
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Much was made today about the Vikes being one of 3 teams to run more than pass. The other two are the Panthers and Seahawks.
You don't have to look hard to note the major differences in those teams QBs.
Newton and Wilson are both incredibly gifted athletes with huge accurate arms.
Those are both things Teddy will never have. So, if he can't clear up his mechanical deficiencies and at least become somewhat of a threat downfield, the Vikes will have to change their system or change QBs.
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At this point, and it's a tough call because they're in a playoff hunt, but I'd almost rather see one of the other two QBs behind center just to see if our receivers are any good for this system. Although, that's dependent on whether one of the other guys can get the ball out accurately and on time. I know/think that won't happen unless injury forces it, cause they'll be in it til the last game most likely.
With CP and CJ riding the pine and the length of time it took for Diggs to even suit up, as well as the seemingly bad fit the TB pick was, I have a hard time trusting the offensive staff in terms of knowing who can do what. It's like accuracy is a systemic problem with this group.
And one more point... Seeing Brees and Newton play makes Teddy look like a five year old with no arms. So much better, so much more calm, so GOOD. It's embarrassing that we keep trucking out these idiots who can't throw a football.
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." #SKOL2018
PurpleMustReign wrote:And one more point... Seeing Brees and Newton play makes Teddy look like a five year old with no arms. So much better, so much more calm, so GOOD. It's embarrassing that we keep trucking out these idiots who can't throw a football.
I know what you mean. Watching them (and Brady, who I was just watching a few minutes ago) really puts things in perspective.
PurpleMustReign wrote:And one more point... Seeing Brees and Newton play makes Teddy look like a five year old with no arms. So much better, so much more calm, so GOOD. It's embarrassing that we keep trucking out these idiots who can't throw a football.
So then you are also seeing that those guys have DAYS to throw behind their lines.
The Breeze wrote:I just don't think he will ever thrive in this system....and a lot of that opinion has to do with mechanics and throwing motion.
I do think he could be really effective in a more spread type of read offense...but even then his downfield inability would have me wanting another guy who may be available down the road.
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Much was made today about the Vikes being one of 3 teams to run more than pass. The other two are the Panthers and Seahawks.
You don't have to look hard to note the major differences in those teams QBs.
Newton and Wilson are both incredibly gifted athletes with huge accurate arms.
Those are both things Teddy will never have. So, if he can't clear up his mechanical deficiencies and at least become somewhat of a threat downfield, the Vikes will have to change their system or change QBs.
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At this point, and it's a tough call because they're in a playoff hunt, but I'd almost rather see one of the other two QBs behind center just to see if our receivers are any good for this system. Although, that's dependent on whether one of the other guys can get the ball out accurately and on time. I know/think that won't happen unless injury forces it, cause they'll be in it til the last game most likely.
With CP and CJ riding the pine and the length of time it took for Diggs to even suit up, as well as the seemingly bad fit the TB pick was, I have a hard time trusting the offensive staff in terms of knowing who can do what. It's like accuracy is a systemic problem with this group.
The thing is it's not just Teddy, the O-line doesn't fit his offense either and can I ask if you think it's acceptable to have a run first mentality and give Peterson 8 carries in the game? In what world does that make sense? Like I said he's been fired at every other stop, what makes us think his offense is still relevant in today's NFL?
