dead_poet wrote:
This. The amount of time he was getting compared to Teddy was frustrating. 10-plus-play drives are unacceptable.
What is the one thing you remember about what the Saints defense did to Brett Favre all game long in the 2009 Championship Game? They beat him half to death, right? And how many times did Brett Favre get sacked?
...
It was less times than Stafford got sacked today.
Pressure and hits are cumulative and vitally important to shaking up a QB. Sacks are the cherry on top. Pressure =/= sacks.
frosted wrote:
I think the fact that we just weren't getting him on the ground BEFORE he got rid of the ball, was what was frustrating for a lot of us.
Lots of hits, only 1 sack. It did take its toll on him though. Still, gotta tighten the pass defense up.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was looking at the comparison between the pressure on Teddy and the pressure on Stafford. It seemed to me that our pocket would collapse in under 2 seconds whereas it would take our D 4-5 seconds to get pressure on Stafford. It could have just seemed that way due to watching it live. Maybe the right wording isn't that they didn't get pressure, but the pressure was slow to develop? Just seemed that Stafford had all day in the pocket before the pass rush would get to him.
DK Sweets wrote:What is the one thing you remember about what the Saints defense did to Brett Favre all game long in the 2009 Championship Game? They beat him half to death, right? And how many times did Brett Favre get sacked?
...
It was less times than Stafford got sacked today.
Pressure and hits are cumulative and vitally important to shaking up a QB. Sacks are the cherry on top. Pressure =/= sacks.
Not when Stafford is completing pass after pass and still getting up to do it again and again after completing another 8-harder for another first down. Pressure without it necessarily affecting the QB isn't all that effective. The Lions had 17 passing first downs. 17!
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
Our defensive line needs works, for the sacks. Pressures are great, Robo's knock downs are great, but we have to sack so the Q has as much time as Teddy has been averaging. Until we figure that out, I would like to see some Barr and Kendricks blitzes. Maybe get Barr's name mentioned for a good play in a game.
Kalil=playing better
Wright=playing better
Kyle-keeping up with last week and playing better and showing toughness, LOVE that
Teddy=calm and cool, making things happy. I love me some Teddy.
Smith is a top 3 safety. I hope we dont lose him. I wanna see some blitzes by him. Our best player on D. Maybe our best player on the entire team.
Joseph had his best game as a Vike. Plus, I didnt just see him stand there after a play, he was helping guys up and getting to the line right away.
Greenway-bye bye please god
Walsh has to go, or face competition. I am so sick of him, and he is going to blow close games, or be a large part of why we lost.
I could go on, but so much of it has been said already. We have to see constant improvement on this team, or we will end right back where we were with Childress and Fraizer. We dont have the talent yet. A few bum drafties.
I want to give a shout out to Xavier Rhodes. Yes, the same Xavier Rhodes who drew a few flags.
Shadowing Calvin Johnson play after play is a tough assignment, one that Richard Sherman doesn't take on. Yes, Megatron had 10 catches. But only 8 of those came against Rhodes on 14 targets, and for only 65 yards. Megatron had the TD vs. Rhodes, but it was great coverage on a perfectly thrown ball, with inconclusive video evidence to overturn. Megatron had his hands full with Rhodes' physical press coverage, getting many of his receptions when Rhodes was playing zone. Rhodes also gave him virtually nothing on yards after the catch.
Obviously the penalties are troubling, but I doubt he gets flagged for most of those against receivers with less ability than Megatron.
Overall, I thought Rhodes was a key factor in limiting Detroit's big plays, as well as the victory.
We left a lot of points on the board with turnovers. That needs to be corrected
The pass protection needs to improve, the pocket is just collapsing too fast. On the few plays where Teddy was able to step up and drive his leg in the pocket he looked Good need more of that
Peterson looked so much better but ball security please. I'll gladly settle for 120 a game and no turnovers
Fun Fact; If Peterson averages 138.6 yards a game for the rest of the year he'll end up with the rushing record.
Defense looked stout. I really liked the penetration that our line got. I hope we can get that to lead to some sacks soon.
Penalties have to come down. Especially the game changers. Kaili may have cost us 2 touchdowns on his own and Rhodes negated a very nice interception I think its fair to say that our penalties cost us 6 points.
J. Kapp 11 wrote:I want to give a shout out to Xavier Rhodes. Yes, the same Xavier Rhodes who drew a few flags.
Shadowing Calvin Johnson play after play is a tough assignment, one that Richard Sherman doesn't take on. Yes, Megatron had 10 catches. But only 8 of those came against Rhodes on 14 targets, and for only 65 yards. Megatron had the TD vs. Rhodes, but it was great coverage on a perfectly thrown ball, with inconclusive video evidence to overturn. Megatron had his hands full with Rhodes' physical press coverage, getting many of his receptions when Rhodes was playing zone. Rhodes also gave him virtually nothing on yards after the catch.
Obviously the penalties are troubling, but I doubt he gets flagged for most of those against receivers with less ability than Megatron.
Overall, I thought Rhodes was a key factor in limiting Detroit's big plays, as well as the victory.
This was my take as well. The TD came on a brilliant play by the best WR in the game and a perfectly thrown ball by one of the better QBs. Even the announcers said that Rhodes did everything right on the play. I look at it this way, the above is what it took for the best WR in the game to score on Rhodes. I really can't find fault there. As fans we should be thrilled to have that guy even if the stupid media do not notice him.
As an aside, aren't you all glad we are not the Eagles right now?
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi
dead_poet wrote:
Not when Stafford is completing pass after pass and still getting up to do it again and again after completing another 8-harder for another first down. Pressure without it necessarily affecting the QB isn't all that effective. The Lions had 17 passing first downs. 17!
I feel like this argument is at a standstill. I could say "Brett Favre had one hell of a game until his last pass. How do you know the pressure wasn't effecting Stafford?" And you could return with "How do you know it was?"
I saw pressure. You didn't see the pressure get there soon enough. We have different takes on it and I don't really know where else to go with that.
I will say this though: I'm not very concerned with the first downs we gave up. We kept the running game stifled, prevented the big plays, and kept their score low until that awkward final drive. The Lions are too talented to stop everything, so if the feather in their cap was first downs, I'll gladly congratulate them and take the win.
mansquatch wrote:
This was my take as well. The TD came on a brilliant play by the best WR in the game and a perfectly thrown ball by one of the better QBs. Even the announcers said that Rhodes did everything right on the play. I look at it this way, the above is what it took for the best WR in the game to score on Rhodes. I really can't find fault there. As fans we should be thrilled to have that guy even if the stupid media do not notice him.
As an aside, aren't you all glad we are not the Eagles right now?
Good take and I would agree that Rhodes had a very strong game. Some fans overlook what a good/very hard tackler he is too. That being said, I think all of his distractors, from year one, should now realize that Waynes has the same type of growing pains to go through but some time soon he will emerge to be as good or better than Rhodes IMO.
Do not mistake KINDNESS for WEAKNESS!
Best to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.
1) Kalil continues to look vastly improved. Remember week 6 from last season? Against the same Ansah Kalil allowed 2.5 sacks (one of them a forced fumble) and several more hurries. On Sunday he allowed one would-be sack that ended up being a holding penalty. Anasah's only sack came when Detroit lined him up on Clemmings. Yes, Kalil had the personal foul penalty but upon review of that play his back was turned to the action and he was locked onto his assignment. It is possible he didn't hear the whistle. His actions were more "football-related" than "dumb punching/after-the-whistle-related." After being more passive last year I'm fine with this, as long as this doesn't become habit. And I may be wrong but I thought that the penalty backed them up 15 yards but it was first-and-10 after that. This is now two weeks in a row plus the preseason where Kalil is looking like our best offensive lineman. With Sully and Loadholt out take that with a grain of salt but it cannot be overstated how crucial this is, especially with the line as decimated as it is.
2) Adrian Peterson is still electric. Yes, I will say that his long speed doesn't look like 2007 Peterson, but his change of direction, vision and acceleration look to still be there. I'm concerned with the center and guard play being unable to open many holes but Peterson's Sunday was outstanding despite being kept out of the end zone and not doing well on one blitz assignment. It goes without saying that he cannot put the ball on the ground, though. I'm liking the receiving, though, and want to see that continue. Peterson should be pretty lethal on swing passes and screens. Oh, and it should be noted that Bridgewater hit six of his eight play-action passes for 86 yards. Peterson has that kind of affect on a defense.
3) Rush defense was suffocating After getting gashed by the 49ers, this looked like a Mike Zimmer defense and they played with aggression. Excluding Matthew Stafford's 20 rushing yards, the Vikings held the Lions to 18 yards rushing on 12 carries (a putrid 1.5 YPC). There wasn't a more outstanding rush defense in the league in week 2 (barring tonight's game, of course). This needed to be corrected in a hurry and it was.
4) Teddy Bridgewater was efficient. Zero turnovers and 2 combined touchdowns will do despite the lackluster passing offense (understanding this was a run-first game plan but 151 passing yards is still on the very low end). The offense only ran 61 plays, too, thanks in large part to the defense being unable to get off the field and surrendering a lot of first downs, but Teddy managed the game well. His first-down juke was pretty. He did about as well as can be expected when he barely had time to set his feet. He did well under pressure, too, completing 7 of 10 attempts for 99 yards. He looked much more composed and in command this week, too, even when pressured.
5) Fusco rebounds. After a pretty awful game in week 1, I thought Fusco redeemed himself for the most part.
6) Coaching/game plan: Credit to Turner for a much better game plan this week. Play-calling was pretty solid all-around from my perspective. I particularly liked the end-around to Wright. I couldn't help but wonder that if Patterson was in the game for that if it would've been sniffed out (or if his athleticism would've turned that into as good or better of a play). I do think because it was Wright that it had the element of surprise. Also a nod to Zimmer for activating Trattou over Hunter. Hunter may have a much higher ceiling but I don't think he's quite ready to contribute in games yet. I don't mind the 20 year-old red-shirting a la Crichton this season, particularly if Trattou can provide some positive plays like he did Sunday spelling Everson.
7) Special teams/Locke finds his foot: Three punts, 2 inside the 20 with a 53-yarder. We can live with this performance. Sherels once again proves why he deserves a roster spot as a returner (had a nice 31-yard return) and gunner (nice special teams tackle).
8 ) Brian Robison reels in all the VMB hate, poses for a picture and releases it back onto the internet. He was outstanding on Sunday. Five total pressures (one hit, four hurries) and five of his six tackles went for defensive stops and had a couple of pass breakups. Great game by the veteran. Linval Joseph also was a force in this one up front and one of the big reasons the Lions' running game couldn't get anywhere. Floyd also was stout in run support and causing disruption.
9) Xavier Rhodes was solid. I was tempted to put him in the "neutral" category here and I think that argument can be made with his three penalties but on a day when Stafford aired it out 53 times, allowing 7 catches for 62 yards and one amazing TD (though he could've had better coverage on that) isn't a bad day when you're covering Calvin Johnson.
The Neutral
1) The pass defense was concerning. I've mentioned this a couple of times but the Lions had 17 passing first-downs and some incredibly long drives (18, 14, 10 and 8, though 8 may not qualify as "incredibly long" but it's still long enough to piss me off). They were also 6/13 on third downs allowed. I will say I was happy that they generated a very solid 18 "hurries" (according to Jim's Pro Football Focus), but too many of them still resulted in completed passes. Now, I will give Stafford a ton of credit for this because he was pummeled in this game and I feel a little sorry for him waking up today (they should just keep him in a Han Solo block of ice until next Sunday) and kept getting up but the pass rush needs to affect the quarterback more or all those "hurries" are pretty meaningless. Perhaps if they were going up against a lesser QB that may have resulted but it was maddening to continue to see Stafford slip away (all defenders behind him) and throw completions galore to Golden Tate and Calvin Johnson. A QB that is that elusive will always have the advantage because you just can't cover receivers for that long.
Caveat: Harrison Smith, who had an overall solid game and came up with a big tackle on the Lions' two-point conversion attempt and also the Hulk-smash forced fumble. Great interception by Trattou.
2) Anthony Barr was largely invisible. He only amassed 2 tackles and I had a hard time finding him in this one. He was stood up far too often when Zimmer tried blitzing him. He had a better game last week (surprisingly) so I'm not too worried yet. Hopefully he's still rounding into game form and the knee injury isn't something that will be sapping some of his athleticism in the short and long-term.
3) The linebackers in general. I'll be anxious to see the snap totals from yesterday but I think Kendricks was on the field more, which is a good thing. They were swarming and athletic, but not overly effective in my eyes. No "splash" plays but they did perform better than in week 1, so I'll take it.
4) Wide receivers. We have some, right? A lot of this is on the offensive line, but this breakout many expected from Charles Johnson is, um, not coming. The flip-side is the nice chemistry Teddy seems to have with Rudolph. Having a healthy Rudolph is vital to this offense.
The Bad
1) Walsh is in need of some intense psychotherapy. I doubt bringing in another kicker will do much as he never seems to miss in practice. His cannon leg and practice precision should allow him to win any "battle" easily. But he's like the golfer that is great on the range and struggles on the course. He can't seem to take it from the practice field to the game. With his contract, big leg, ability (remember that rookie year?) and practice efficiency I just don't see the Vikings pulling the plug on him (yet). It will take a couple of critical misses for the Vikings to pull the plug and we're not there yet. It would shock me if competition is brought in this week.
2) Penalties. 10 penalties for 97 yards and (and here's the kicker) 6 first downs as a result of penalties. That cannot happen. Everson needs to be more disciplined and the penalty on Barr I thought was stupid. He knows better than that.
3) Offensive line continues to be problematic. Even with Kalil having a solid outing, the offensive line as a whole couldn't open up any running lanes on the inside where they're traditionally pretty good and Teddy can barely set his feet before he's being harassed even on simple four-man rushes. This has the effect of essentially shrinking the field, which is not good. With Sully out until my guess week 12 or 13 (if not the rest of the season) no cavalry is coming. God help them (and Teddy) in weeks 4 and 6 when they're up against the Broncos and the Chiefs back-to-back. I'm not expecting wins in either of those games because of it and I hope to God Teddy emerges healthy. Something tells me having the bye after the Broncos game is going to be very welcome.
4) Points off turnovers. Can't waste these opportunities.
Overall I was pleased with this game but couldn't help continue to be frustrated collectively by the offensive line. If the defense can perform like they did on Sunday week-in and week-out (even with my little pass defense hissy fit), this team will go as far as their offensive line will take them. And we need to pray to Jobu that Peterson is healthy all season because I fear this offense will be crippled without him.
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
dead_poet wrote:My own thoughts after a day of reflection....
Positives:
1) Kalil continues to look vastly improved. Remember week 6 from last season? Against the same Ansah Kalil allowed 2.5 sacks (one of them a forced fumble) and several more hurries. On Sunday he allowed one would-be sack that ended up being a holding penalty. Anasah's only sack came when Detroit lined him up on Clemmings. Yes, Kalil had the personal foul penalty but upon review of that play his back was turned to the action and he was locked onto his assignment. It is possible he didn't hear the whistle. His actions were more "football-related" than "dumb punching/after-the-whistle-related." After being more passive last year I'm fine with this, as long as this doesn't become habit. And I may be wrong but I thought that the penalty backed them up 15 yards but it was first-and-10 after that. This is now two weeks in a row plus the preseason where Kalil is looking like our best offensive lineman. With Sully and Loadholt out take that with a grain of salt but it cannot be overstated how crucial this is, especially with the line as decimated as it is.
2) Adrian Peterson is still electric. Yes, I will say that his long speed doesn't look like 2007 Peterson, but his change of direction, vision and acceleration look to still be there. I'm concerned with the center and guard play being unable to open many holes but Peterson's Sunday was outstanding despite being kept out of the end zone and not doing well on one blitz assignment. It goes without saying that he cannot put the ball on the ground, though. I'm liking the receiving, though, and want to see that continue. Peterson should be pretty lethal on swing passes and screens. Oh, and it should be noted that Bridgewater hit six of his eight play-action passes for 86 yards. Peterson has that kind of affect on a defense.
3) Rush defense was suffocating After getting gashed by the 49ers, this looked like a Mike Zimmer defense and they played with aggression. Excluding Matthew Stafford's 20 rushing yards, the Vikings held the Lions to 18 yards rushing on 12 carries (a putrid 1.5 YPC). There wasn't a more outstanding rush defense in the league in week 2 (barring tonight's game, of course). This needed to be corrected in a hurry and it was.
4) Teddy Bridgewater was efficient. Zero turnovers and 2 combined touchdowns will do despite the lackluster passing offense (understanding this was a run-first game plan but 151 passing yards is still on the very low end). The offense only ran 61 plays, too, thanks in large part to the defense being unable to get off the field and surrendering a lot of first downs, but Teddy managed the game well. His first-down juke was pretty. He did about as well as can be expected when he barely had time to set his feet. He did well under pressure, too, completing 7 of 10 attempts for 99 yards. He looked much more composed and in command this week, too, even when pressured.
5) Fusco rebounds. After a pretty awful game in week 1, I thought Fusco redeemed himself for the most part.
6) Coaching/game plan: Credit to Turner for a much better game plan this week. Play-calling was pretty solid all-around from my perspective. I particularly liked the end-around to Wright. I couldn't help but wonder that if Patterson was in the game for that if it would've been sniffed out (or if his athleticism would've turned that into as good or better of a play). I do think because it was Wright that it had the element of surprise. Also a nod to Zimmer for activating Trattou over Hunter. Hunter may have a much higher ceiling but I don't think he's quite ready to contribute in games yet. I don't mind the 20 year-old red-shirting a la Crichton this season, particularly if Trattou can provide some positive plays like he did Sunday spelling Everson.
7) Special teams/Locke finds his foot: Three punts, 2 inside the 20 with a 53-yarder. We can live with this performance. Sherels once again proves why he deserves a roster spot as a returner (had a nice 31-yard return) and gunner (nice special teams tackle).
8 ) Brian Robison reels in all the VMB hate, poses for a picture and releases it back onto the internet. He was outstanding on Sunday. Five total pressures (one hit, four hurries) and five of his six tackles went for defensive stops and had a couple of pass breakups. Great game by the veteran. Linval Joseph also was a force in this one up front and one of the big reasons the Lions' running game couldn't get anywhere. Floyd also was stout in run support and causing disruption.
9) Xavier Rhodes was solid. I was tempted to put him in the "neutral" category here and I think that argument can be made with his three penalties but on a day when Stafford aired it out 53 times, allowing 7 catches for 62 yards and one amazing TD (though he could've had better coverage on that) isn't a bad day when you're covering Calvin Johnson.
The Neutral
1) The pass defense was concerning. I've mentioned this a couple of times but the Lions had 17 passing first-downs and some incredibly long drives (18, 14, 10 and 8, though 8 may not qualify as "incredibly long" but it's still long enough to piss me off). They were also 6/13 on third downs allowed. I will say I was happy that they generated a very solid 18 "hurries" (according to Jim's Pro Football Focus), but too many of them still resulted in completed passes. Now, I will give Stafford a ton of credit for this because he was pummeled in this game and I feel a little sorry for him waking up today (they should just keep him in a Han Solo block of ice until next Sunday) and kept getting up but the pass rush needs to affect the quarterback more or all those "hurries" are pretty meaningless. Perhaps if they were going up against a lesser QB that may have resulted but it was maddening to continue to see Stafford slip away (all defenders behind him) and throw completions galore to Golden Tate and Calvin Johnson. A QB that is that elusive will always have the advantage because you just can't cover receivers for that long.
Caveat: Harrison Smith, who had an overall solid game and came up with a big tackle on the Lions' two-point conversion attempt and also the Hulk-smash forced fumble. Great interception by Trattou.
2) Anthony Barr was largely invisible. He only amassed 2 tackles and I had a hard time finding him in this one. He was stood up far too often when Zimmer tried blitzing him. He had a better game last week (surprisingly) so I'm not too worried yet. Hopefully he's still rounding into game form and the knee injury isn't something that will be sapping some of his athleticism in the short and long-term.
3) The linebackers in general. I'll be anxious to see the snap totals from yesterday but I think Kendricks was on the field more, which is a good thing. They were swarming and athletic, but not overly effective in my eyes. No "splash" plays but they did perform better than in week 1, so I'll take it.
4) Wide receivers. We have some, right? A lot of this is on the offensive line, but this breakout many expected from Charles Johnson is, um, not coming. The flip-side is the nice chemistry Teddy seems to have with Rudolph. Having a healthy Rudolph is vital to this offense.
The Bad
1) Walsh is in need of some intense psychotherapy. I doubt bringing in another kicker will do much as he never seems to miss in practice. His cannon leg and practice precision should allow him to win any "battle" easily. But he's like the golfer that is great on the range and struggles on the course. He can't seem to take it from the practice field to the game. With his contract, big leg, ability (remember that rookie year?) and practice efficiency I just don't see the Vikings pulling the plug on him (yet). It will take a couple of critical misses for the Vikings to pull the plug and we're not there yet. It would shock me if competition is brought in this week.
2) Penalties. 10 penalties for 97 yards and (and here's the kicker) 6 first downs as a result of penalties. That cannot happen. Everson needs to be more disciplined and the penalty on Barr I thought was stupid. He knows better than that.
3) Offensive line continues to be problematic. Even with Kalil having a solid outing, the offensive line as a whole couldn't open up any running lanes on the inside where they're traditionally pretty good and Teddy can barely set his feet before he's being harassed even on simple four-man rushes. This has the effect of essentially shrinking the field, which is not good. With Sully out until my guess week 12 or 13 (if not the rest of the season) no cavalry is coming. God help them (and Teddy) in weeks 4 and 6 when they're up against the Broncos and the Chiefs back-to-back. I'm not expecting wins in either of those games because of it and I hope to God Teddy emerges healthy. Something tells me having the bye after the Broncos game is going to be very welcome.
4) Points off turnovers. Can't waste these opportunities.
Overall I was pleased with this game but couldn't help continue to be frustrated collectively by the offensive line. If the defense can perform like they did on Sunday week-in and week-out (even with my little pass defense hissy fit), this team will go as far as their offensive line will take them. And we need to pray to Jobu that Peterson is healthy all season because I fear this offense will be crippled without him.
Very nice take Poet and very well thought out and presented
Do not mistake KINDNESS for WEAKNESS!
Best to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.
