Deflategate: Brady suspended, Pats lose draft picks & fined

[DK Sweets]

People are realizing what the Patriots are, a good consistent team, but one that is absolutely incapable of winning the big one without some sort of cheating scandal. They have never done it, that is a fact.

I'm going to let Pseudo handle the rest of the conversation, but seriously...they can't win without a cheating scandal?

They've been to 6 of the 9 AFC Championship Games since "Spygate", including the last 4. That's more than "good" or "consistent". That's straight ridiculous. The year after "Spygate" they were one ridiculous catch away from the most amazing season in NFL history, all without any chance of cheating. This past Super Bowl, they won the game with an absolute microscope on them against the consensus best team in the league and defending Super Bowl champion.

Feel free to express your disdain for their attitude or disregard for the rules, but whether or not they deflated some footballs, let's not pretend like this team isn't clearly the best team of the past decade.

[Jordysghost]

I'm going to let Pseudo handle the rest of the conversation, but seriously...they can't win without a cheating scandal?

They've been to 6 of the 9 AFC Championship Games since "Spygate", including the last 4. That's more than "good" or "consistent". That's straight ridiculous. The year after "Spygate" they were one ridiculous catch away from the most amazing season in NFL history, all without any chance of cheating. This past Super Bowl, they won the game with an absolute microscope on them against the consensus best team in the league and defending Super Bowl champion.

Feel free to express your disdain for their attitude or disregard for the rules, but whether or not they deflated some footballs, let's not pretend like this team isn't clearly the best team of the past decade.

They are a great team, just not a great championship winning team. If they were, they would have a SB that took place without the aid of a cheating scandal. I don't dislike the Patriots, I just dislike cheaters.

[Jordysghost]

The title of this thread is: "Deflategate report is in: Brady "generally aware"
I already brought up the snow plow game in a my prior post. It was 33 years ago. So what else have you got? The truck rule and suspicions. How can the Patriots be blamed for cheating because an official called the Tuck Rule? Please explain that and when you do be sure to include that the Patriots were on the wrong side of that call in a prior game. So what's left. Suspicions about spying on sideline communications. Before editing your post you said something about radio wave frequencies. Suspicions? Radio waves? Really? Suspicions. Suspicions. Suspicions.
I asked when they were caught cheating aside from Spygate. I guess you don't have anything.
So the Pats four Super Bowl championships were all the result of unprecedented cheating scandals. Got it. I see you're going to stick to that line no matter what. Obviously the Pats would have never beat the Colts 45-7 had it not been for that 1 PSI difference in the footballs.

They got caught during spygate, and they got caught during deflategate, thats TWICE bruh.

How many times do you need to be caught cheating before you are labeled a cheater? You cant change the facts, without cheating scandals, the Patriots DO NOT win championships, ever.

Every SB they played in without a cheating scandal, they lost. There is no way to dispute this.



Suspicions, suspicions suspicions? LMFAO thanks for the laugh bro, getting CAUGHT cheating TWICE goes past "suspicion".

[fiestavike]

text messages from patriots employees... Tom is such a weasel...

McNally: Tom sucks...im going make that next ball a [expletive] balloon

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done ...

Jastremski: I told him it was. He was right though ...

Jastremski: I checked some of the balls this morn... The refs [expletive] us ... a few of then were at almost 16

Jastremski: They didnt recheck then after they put air in them

McNally: [Expletive] tom ...16 is nothing...wait till next sunday

On October 21, 2014, McNally and Jastremski exchanged the following text messages:

McNally: Make sure you blow up the ball to look like a rugby ball so tom can get used to it before sunday

Jastremski: Omg

On October 23, 2014, three days before a Sunday game against the Chicago Bears, Jastremski and McNally exchanged the following messages:

Jastremski: Can?t wait to give you your needle this week

McNally: [Expletive] tom....make sure the pump is attached to the needle.....[expletive] watermelons coming

Jastremski: So angry

McNally: The only thing deflating sun..is his passing rating

The next day, October 24, 2014, Jastremski and McNally exchanged the following messages:

Jastremski: I have a big needle for u this week McNally: Better be surrounded by cash and newkicks....or its a rugby sunday

McNally: [Expletive] tom

Jastremski: Maybe u will have some nice size 11s in ur locker

McNally: Tom must really be working your balls hard this week 6

In addition to the messages described above, before the start of the 2014-15 season, McNally referred to himself as “the deflator” and stated that he was “not going to espn……..yet.”

On May 9, 2014, McNally and Jastremski exchanged the following text messages:

McNally: You working

Jastremski: Yup

McNally: Nice dude....jimmy needs some kicks....lets make a deal.....come on help the deflator

McNally: Chill buddy im just [expletive] with you ....im not going to espn........yet

[Pseudo Everything]

They got caught during spygate, and they got caught during deflategate, thats TWICE bruh.
How many times do you need to be caught cheating before you are labeled a cheater? You cant change the facts, without cheating scandals, the Patriots DO NOT win championships, ever.
Every SB they played in without a cheating scandal, they lost. There is no way to dispute this.
Suspicions, suspicions suspicions? LMFAO thanks for the laugh bro, getting CAUGHT cheating TWICE goes past "suspicion".

What the ...

I asked you when the Patriots have been caught cheating aside from Spygate. You replied by saying snow plow (33 years ago), tuck rule (an official's call) and "suspicions that they were spying on teams sideline communications." Frankly I don't what you were referring to with that last one.

Suspicion was your word ... not mine.

Anyway, I'm done with this. It's pretty clear you can't back up your claim that the Pats were "constantly caught and accused of cheating on a regular basis."

[VikingLord]

Maintaining the integrity of the game should be more important than catching someone cheating. The league had plenty of time to take steps to make sure all the game balls were at the correct PSI before the AFC Championship game yet they made no changes at all to their protocol. If 1 PSI is enough to give the Pats and Brady an unfair advantage (debatable), then you can make the argument that the league knowingly put the integrity of the AFCCG at risk.

One could take that view. Or one could take the view that it was not the league that put the integrity of the game at risk, but rather Brady and his ball boys that did. The Colts GM made an allegation. They did not provide proof of said allegation, nor details as to how, when, or to what degree the Patriots were manipulating their game balls. For all anyone knew with certainty, the allegation was incorrect and the balls were properly inflated.

All I'm saying the rule was and is clear and the league is within its purview to sample ball pressure at any time and for any reason it chooses. Had there been no manipulation of the pressure, it wouldn't have mattered that they sampled balls at halftime or whenever they did it. That it turned out there was manipulation of the pressure is hardly the fault of the league for how they chose to enforce the rule.

[VikingLord]

Feel free to express your disdain for their attitude or disregard for the rules, but whether or not they deflated some footballs, let's not pretend like this team isn't clearly the best team of the past decade.

It's a real shame that the Patriots have been associated with cheating with such frequency over that time, because I'd love to believe that they were in fact the best team of the past decade. I keep getting distracted from accepting that by all of that background noise that hovers over every accomplishment they've had.

[PurpleMustReign]

Are those text messages real?

[Jordysghost]

What the ...

I asked you when the Patriots have been caught cheating aside from Spygate. You replied by saying snow plow (33 years ago), tuck rule (an official's call) and "suspicions that they were spying on teams sideline communications." Frankly I don't what you were referring to with that last one.

Suspicion was your word ... not mine.

Anyway, I'm done with this. It's pretty clear you can't back up your claim that the Pats were "constantly caught and accused of cheating on a regular basis."

DEFLATEGATE. How many times do I need to tell you? Every time I say it you tune it out, DEFLATEGATE, you kno, the SECOND cheating scandal in Patriots history.

That is TWICE getting caught cheating, in addition to the suspicions of sideline communications interference. Twice.

Not once. Twice. In case we aren't clear. Spygate, deflategate.

2 times getting caught cheating. That is ridiculous, once again, you cannot refute the fact that they have never captured a SB without a cheating scandal.

[jackal]

Its just wrong ...

Green Bay, Dallas, and Patriots get a different set of rules

next time this crap happens I am giving up on the NFL.


I gave up the NBA after the ref sold the kings game (which was proven years later)

[The Breeze]

Are those text messages real?

yeah...holy crap! that's what I wanna know.

pretty damming if so.

[808vikingsfan]

text messages from patriots employees... Tom is such a weasel...

Is this for real?

[Mothman]

Is this for real?

Yes, it's from the Wells report, which can be found here:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015 ... story.html

[Cliff]

I wonder how the people defending the Patriots would feel had the Vikings lost to them in the Super Bowl. I get the feeling that their cheating would be more serious then.

I don't see how anybody can talk about how great they are aside from the cheating; "They've been to the last X of X championship games, etc" when we don't know how long they've actually been cheating. How long had they been stealing signals before they were caught? How long were deflating balls before they were caught? What else have they been doing where they just haven't been caught?

It's not just the action that was taken it's the culture of doing whatever it takes to win even at the expense of the rules. Cheating is fine, just do stuff with a low probability of being caught.

[Mothman]

I wonder how the people defending the Patriots would feel had the Vikings lost to them in the Super Bowl. I get the feeling that their cheating would be more serious then.

I honestly don't think I'd view it any differently, especially this particular scandal because I remain unconvinced that any real competitive advantage was gained. The Patriots certainly didn't have any advantage related to under-inflated footballs in the second half of the conference championship or in their Super Bowl win over the Seahawks.

I think the report itself is a farce. For example:

http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2015/05 ... -patriots/

Most incredibly, Ted Wells shows that at least one of the two referees measured that eight of the eleven Patriots game balls fell within where the scientists employed by Wells said they would sink to given weather conditions. This doesn’t indicate a verdict of “probable” guilt. It indicates a zeal to prove an incoming hypothesis.

Buried deep in the report, Wells concedes that “the air pressure of all of the game balls tested at halftime decreased from the levels measured prior to the game.” In other words, Wells affirmed Bill Belichick’s point, ridiculed by Bill Nye “the Science Guy” and others, that the weather naturally deflates balls.

All of the balls—Patriots balls and Colts balls—lost pressure by halftime. Significantly, the 11 Patriot balls showed greater decreases than the four Colt balls tested. More significantly, judging by what the scientists employed by Wells told him, eight of the 11 balls tested at halftime fell within the expected range of pressure drop based on the measurements of at least one of the two NFL officials who gauged the pigskins. This, more than anything else, invalidates the conclusions of the Wells Report. Though Ted Wells theorizes a conspiracy to depressurize balls, measurements by NFL referees on the majority of the Patriots balls read precisely where the scientific firm employed by the investigators said a ball inflated to 12.5 psi–the NFL minimum–would fall to (between 11.52 and 11.32) as a result of game-time conditions.

Since the psi measurements of the two referees varied somewhat, the opposite–that a majority of the balls failed to meet the expected level–is also true. Remarkably, the report chooses to interpret the data exclusively in a manner that suggests malfeasance. “Most of the individual Patriots measurements recorded at halftime, however, were lower than the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law,” the report reads. But the fact that by at least one or the other referee’s measurement, the air pressure of eight of eleven balls fell to expected levels undermines the verdict of “probable” guilt.

I thinK Wells probably served up the report Goodell wanted, in the language he wanted (from what I've read, "more probable than not" is the exact language used in the NFL rulebook as the threshold under which they determine whether you violated a rule and thus, the exact language Goodell needs in order to hand down a punishment).

I'm not saying it's okay to cheat but I don't think anything more egregious occurred here than we've seen from NFL teams and players for decades. Unfortunately, the culture of doing whatever it takes to win even at the expense of the rules has been with the league for a long time. It's not something I like about the game but I don't believe for a second there are 31 teams playing by the book all the time while one constantly skirts around it and, consequently, has stayed on top for about 15 years.

Before we condemn the Patriots for cheating their way to their most recent Super Bowl win it would be nice if there was some actual proof that Brady actually wanted footballs deflated to a psi lower than that allowed by NFL rule. As far as I can tell, no such evidence has been found or presented.