Ironic how opinions change so much in 1 year

[KSViking]

Last year, this time of the year, I got Skewered over and over by my lack of confidence in Patterson for being the next great WR to come to MN. Basically said that he seems good, but he wasn't burning the world down with his great play 2 years ago. Got flamed a little, accepted it as difference of opinion and moved on. A year later, I come back to the boards and it seems everyone has pretty much dismissed him as last weeks garbage now, and Im almost in the other court. I still don't think he is elite, or great by any means, but I think he still has a future here in MN, and can become a solid role player if he is used correctly.

I'm not trying to Troll, but I think that Barr is the next in line for disappointmentville, Unless he can shore up his weaknesses against the run. He gets lots of tackles, and seems to be all over the field, but he is always tackling from behind.. running down guys after other missed tackles.. when the plays are coming right at him, he gets blocked out of the play way too. His pass defense also seems to be more of let the guy catch the ball and tackle him immediately, than to break the play up and prevent the catch.

[CbusVikesFan]

CJ Mosley......

[44crm]

Patterson had one season in a brand new offense, again. He had one season in Tennessee's offense, one season in Musgrave's offense and one season in Norv's offense. That doesn't help a raw, physically talented WR progress.

I think the issue with Patterson is not his ability to learn the offense or route tree even though some people think otherwise. I believe Patterson thought he was all that because media, fans and teammates told him so and hyped him like he was Calvin Johnson.

Patterson didn't deserve any of the attention he got last season and consequently it got to his head. Finally having the chance to return to the same offensive scheme for a second year in a row will allow him to focus on his many negatives.

I really believe CP84 can only go up from here. JMO though. Glad to see you seem to be on the same side now with regards to Patterson.

As far as Barr, he would have most likely been defensive rookie of the year if he was healthy all season. I think he showed more than enough talent and skill for a player who is new to the position he is playing. I don't find any of the scrutiny appropriate at all when it comes to Barr.

But one of us will be wrong and I agree right now it is 50/50.

[KSViking]

CJ Mosely......

You read my mind.. Or my posts from last year. LOL

[frosted]

I remember arguing with you last offseason, you were sure Barr was a lock to be a Vernon Gholston esque bust, and made sure to bring it up quite often..




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[CbusVikesFan]

I remember arguing with you last offseason, you were sure Barr was a lock to be a Vernon Gholston esque bust, and made sure to bring it up quite often..




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I may have said that, I own it. So far, I am not wrong and you are not right. That is my opinion about it. Barr was injured, it happens. He is, so far a work in progress. How much work has Mosley put in? Oh yea, DROY serious consideration. He far outpaced Barr all season. Not that I would not have wanted Barr, if Mosely was off the board. Again, I thought that last year was the year to get the ILB.

[CbusVikesFan]

You read my mind.. Or my posts from last year. LOL

KSV, obviously both.
I thought for the past THREE years now, Mosley would have been great as a Viking.

[frosted]

I may have said that, I own it. So far, I am not wrong and you are not right. That is my opinion about it. Barr was injured, it happens. He is, so far a work in progress. How much work has Mosely put in? Oh yea, DROY serious consideration. He far outpaced Barr all season. Not that I would not have wanted Barr, if Mosely was off the board. Again, I thought that last year was the year to get the ILB.

My post was directed at the guy that started the thread, haha. Sorry for the confusion.


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[KSViking]

I don't do alot of message boards, so not really sure what all the etiquitte is and such regarding bringing up old posts. But I was bored today and looked at a bunch of my posts last year, and I was wrong on some things, dead on about other things, but its entertaining to say the least. Sort of like the posts the guys make on the websites regarding draft grades, and then revisit their grades 4 years later.

Im still not a big fan of Barr, He is better than I thought he would be, but I feel like he isn't the complete LB that some of you feel he is. As far as Rookie of the Year, I don't see him being close, even if he was healthy all year long.


Defensive Rookie of the Year voting
Player Position No. of votes
Aaron Donald, St. Louis Rams DT 25
C.J. Mosley, Baltimore Ravens LB 18
Khalil Mack, Oakland Raiders LB 6
Chris Borland, San Francisco 49ers LB 1

All of these guys had much bigger impact for their team than Barr, with exception to Borland, but he was filling some mighty big shoes there.

[44crm]

I may have said that, I own it. So far, I am not wrong and you are not right. That is my opinion about it. Barr was injured, it happens. He is, so far a work in progress. How much work has Mosely put in? Oh yea, DROY serious consideration. He far outpaced Barr all season. Not that I would not have wanted Barr, if Mosely was off the board. Again, I thought that last year was the year to get the ILB.

I don't agree that Mosley "far outpaced" Barr. Barr played 12 games, Mosley played 16 plus 2 post season games. Mosley played 6 more games and also spent his college career playing the position he played in the NFL.

Barr had to learn a position he had no experience playing in college, which is a lot harder than jumping into the NFL playing the same position you played in college.

-Barr made great progress at a a new position, averaging over 4.5 tackles per game, 1.25 assists per game, 4 sacks total, and 2 forced fumbles.
-Mosley averaged 5.56 tackles per game, 2.75 assists per game, 3 sacks and 2 interceptions total over 18 games(2 playoff games).

Obviously Mosley was better at ILB than Barr was at OLB last year, but Mosley once again is very familiar with is duties at his position... Barr was not, it was a brand new position for him.

I think if Barr outpaced Mosley last season, it would be a very bad sign for Mosley, and Barr would be considered DORY by far. With Mosley outpacing Barr last season, I almost feel like it was a given. These players were put in two completely different situations and positions. I love Mosley and think he is great but the comparison isn't really fair.

[CbusVikesFan]

My post was directed at the guy that started the thread, haha. Sorry for the confusion.


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Ha, okay. I may have actually said that, to a friend not on the board.

[CbusVikesFan]

I don't agree that Mosley "far outpaced" Barr. Barr played 12 games, Mosley played 16 plus 2 post season games. Mosley played 6 more games and also spent his college career playing the position he played in the NFL.

Barr had to learn a position he had no experience playing in college, which is a lot harder than jumping into the NFL playing the same position you played in college.

-Barr made great progress at a a new position, averaging over 4.5 tackles per game, 1.25 assists per game, 4 sacks total, and 2 forced fumbles.
-Mosley averaged 5.56 tackles per game, 2.75 assists per game, 3 sacks and 2 interceptions total over 18 games(2 playoff games).

Obviously Mosley was better at ILB than Barr was at OLB last year, but Mosley once again is very familiar with is duties at his position... Barr was not, it was a brand new position for him.

I think if Barr outpaced Mosley last season, it would be a very bad sign for Mosley, and Barr would be considered DORY by far. With Mosley outpacing Barr last season, I almost feel like it was a given. These players were put in two completely different situations and positions. I love Mosley and think he is great but the comparison isn't really fair.

Really, I am basing comparison on production only. I do realize that they play different LB positions. If Barr played all 16, I think his numbers were still going to be far behind Mosley . And your points only strengthen mine in that we should have taken Mosley. Mosley finished 7th in total tackles for a LB, and I am guessing at this right now, but I think he finished in the top 10 total in the passing stats part for a LB. I looked at stats all year long because I wanted to see the comparison as far as production. I don't think I will be eating crow anytime soon on the drafting of Barr over CJM.

Okay, this is my real argument and the crux of the matter. It is NOT about Barr at all.

rank-total tackles, solo, assists, sacks, safeties, pass def, ints, yds, long, ff, recoveries, td's.
7 C.J. Mosley BAL ILB 133 89 44 3.0 -- 10 2 0 23 18 1 1 0
95 Jasper Brinkley MIN MLB 74 53 21 1.0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 1 -- --
I sorely wanted this kind of production to happen this year.

For those who do not like Blanton take a closer look. I think he compliments well with Smith. The defense was much improved with 3 defensive players cracking the top 50 (almost) in the league. (Not sure if these are good stats or the defense is still on the field too much. )

30 Robert Blanton MIN SS 106 72 34 0.0 -- 3 1 0 1 1 0 1 0
48 Chad Greenway MIN OLB 93 56 37 1.0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 1 -- --
51 Harrison Smith MIN FS 92 71 21 3.0 0 14 5 1 150 81T 1 -- --
111 Anthony Barr MIN OLB 70 55 15 4.0 0 -- -- -- -- -- 2 3 1
What these stats really tell me is that our LB's suck ya'll. Ya feel me? I've been watching in pure amazement on how these positions have been ignored for years.

[Purple bruise]

I don't do alot of message boards, so not really sure what all the etiquitte is and such regarding bringing up old posts. But I was bored today and looked at a bunch of my posts last year, and I was wrong on some things, dead on about other things, but its entertaining to say the least. Sort of like the posts the guys make on the websites regarding draft grades, and then revisit their grades 4 years later.

Im still not a big fan of Barr, He is better than I thought he would be, but I feel like he isn't the complete LB that some of you feel he is. As far as Rookie of the Year, I don't see him being close, even if he was healthy all year long.


Defensive Rookie of the Year voting
Player Position No. of votes
Aaron Donald, St. Louis Rams DT 25
C.J. Mosley, Baltimore Ravens LB 18
Khalil Mack, Oakland Raiders LB 6
Chris Borland, San Francisco 49ers LB 1

All of these guys had much bigger impact for their team than Barr, with exception to Borland, but he was filling some mighty big shoes there.

I am not exactly sure what point you are trying to make but right up until his injury Barr was right there for defensive ROY of the year. If it is a pat on the back or some kind of kudo your looking for being right about Barr being a bust you are striking out with me anyway. Barr is a stud and will, by all reason, pick right up where he left off
http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/vide ... abbca75058

[44crm]

Really, I am basing comparison on production only. I do realize that they play different LB positions. If Barr played all 16, I think his numbers were still going to be far behind Mosley . And your points only strengthen mine in that we should have taken Mosley. Mosley finished 7th in total tackles for a LB, and I am guessing at this right now, but I think he finished in the top 10 total in the passing stats part for a LB. I looked at stats all year long because I wanted to see the comparison as far as production. I don't think I will be eating crow anytime soon on the drafting of Barr over CJM.

Okay, this is my real argument and the crux of the matter. It is NOT about Barr at all.

rank-total tackles, solo, assists, sacks, safeties, pass def, ints, yds, long, ff, recoveries, td's.
7 C.J. Mosley BAL ILB 133 89 44 3.0 -- 10 2 0 23 18 1 1 0
95 Jasper Brinkley MIN MLB 74 53 21 1.0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 1 -- --
I sorely wanted this kind of production to happen this year.

For those who do not like Blanton take a closer look. I think he compliments well with Smith. The defense was much improved with 3 defensive players cracking the top 50 (almost) in the league. (Not sure if these are good stats or the defense is still on the field too much. )

30 Robert Blanton MIN SS 106 72 34 0.0 -- 3 1 0 1 1 0 1 0
48 Chad Greenway MIN OLB 93 56 37 1.0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 1 -- --
51 Harrison Smith MIN FS 92 71 21 3.0 0 14 5 1 150 81T 1 -- --
111 Anthony Barr MIN OLB 70 55 15 4.0 0 -- -- -- -- -- 2 3 1
What these stats really tell me is that our LB's suck ya'll. Ya feel me? I've been watching in pure amazement on how these positions have been ignored for years.

I am not saying we should have taken Barr over Mosley, I wanted Mosley just as bad as you and there are comments I made last year that state so. If I was in charge I definitely would have taken Mosley, and honestly never would have even thought about taking Barr, was never interested.

My point is just that I think in my mind it was obvious that Mosley was going to be better last year than Barr, but what Barr was able to do at a position he never played really impressed me. I think what he went through to get to the stats he had was a lot more difficult and hampering than what Mosley went through. If that make sense.

I was quietly pissed off when we drafted Barr, I though he was extremely overrated having watched him play in the Pac12. And I do agree that last year was the year to draft ILB. I think there are a few prospects this draft that could amount to great ILB's but they also have equal chance of being busts.

With the progress Barr made last year, I believe he could have a career as good or better than Mosley's, obviously at their different positions and duties it will be hard to tell.

[S197]

Barr's missed tackles went up during the latter part of the year but hopefully some of that had to due with his injury and also probably some growing pains. As for the comment about tackling from behind, Barr covers a LOT of real estate so often times the coaches require him to cover a lot of ground in his assignments. As an example, he can line up pre-snap in the Zimmer double A-gap look, drop into coverage, and run down a RB screen to the edge. It may be a tackle from behind but there's not many LB's that can even make that tackle.

I don't think he's solidified himself as a top tier guy just yet but the potential is there. As long as he can continue to improve, I'm not all that worried.