Cassel traded to Buffalo

[The Breeze]

@DK

I don't think it's at all realistic to expect to have two solid starters....but you have zero possibility if all you sign is retreads off the scrap heap.
If it's been established that a career backup isn't going to take you anywhere...what's the risk vs reward in using a draft pick for the position as your gameplan? It probably is just a matter of preference of a GM. I'd like to look at some other teams histories though.
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The irony of the Packers situation is that they had all those quality guys to back up Brent and he never missed a game.

[DK Sweets]

@DK

I don't think it's at all realistic to expect to have two solid starters....but you have zero possibility if all you sign is retreads off the scrap heap.
If it's been established that a career backup isn't going to take you anywhere...what's the risk vs reward in using a draft pick for the position as your gameplan? It probably is just a matter of preference of a GM. I'd like to look at some other teams histories though.
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The irony of the Packers situation is that they had all those quality guys to back up Brent and he never missed a game.

Brad Johnson went 7-2 as a starter (one of those being against the eventual Super Bowl champion Steelers), ended up with the lowest interception to attempt ratio in Vikings history, and finished with the 3rd best passer rating in the NFC, not to mention he had already won a Super Bowl. He was a bit more than a retread off the scrap heap.

[PurpleKoolaid]

The only time I was slightly afraid or thought Hill might be good, was while he was playing against the Vikings.

[Mothman]

You arguing things that are outside of the parameters of my discussion. I'm speaking about Culpepper's tenure, not the past 16 years.

Sorry. I obviously misunderstood that.

Jim, how many teams do you think have a starting caliber backup guy that would come in and not miss a beat if the franchise guy went down?

I consider it an irrelevant question. Teams have put themselves in that situation before. It's clearly possible to create that situation and my point is that the Vikings should be striving to do it, not settling as they have done too often in the past.

[mosscarter]

so lets go dump 5 million a year on a backup. i couldn't care less who is the backup. we should be focused on getting an oline in front of teddy and the chances are we won't have to worry about it. backup qb's are backups for a reason. cassell's best year he had randy moss to throw to (go figure).

[808vikingsfan]

Plenty but I'm not sure Cassel's worth many more wins than some of the free agent QBs mentioned in this thread. He's 9-17 as a starter over the last 4 seasons.

To put that in perspective, Ponder is 14-21 over that span.
Sanchez is 18-21.
Locker is 9-14.
Hoyer is 10-7.
Jackson is 7-7.

If I'm not mistaken, those are all better win percentages than Cassel's, although his win percentage over the last 4 seasons is better than McCoy or Whitehurst and obviously, these numbers aren't compiled in a vacuum.

Nevertheless, there's very little reason Cassel to think would give the Vikes a better chance to win than some of the other backup-level vets available. It's slim pickin's out there...

The reason I added "2015 Vikings" was because of what I said before. Cassel already has chemistry with the #1 WR (Jennings) along with familiarity with the rest of the receivers. For this year alone, I see Cassel being the best option. I certainly can see why the trade was made. I just think it could end up costing the Vikings in the short run.

[The Breeze]

Brad Johnson went 7-2 as a starter (one of those being against the eventual Super Bowl champion Steelers), ended up with the lowest interception to attempt ratio in Vikings history, and finished with the 3rd best passer rating in the NFC, not to mention he had already won a Super Bowl. He was a bit more than a retread off the scrap heap.

I think Brad Johnson was a real good QB and one of the most acurate guys ever, but I don't think he was much more than a stopgap at that point in the eyes of the organization.
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By retreads I'm talking about all the different cats that so many teams sign that drift through for a season or two. Are they really any better than rookies when the most likely difference is when they became pros?
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I think the leaguewide trend has been to have your #1, vet backup, then a flier/ project guy. I see two teams in particular that have been able to buck that trend by taking advantage of having a solid #1 guy and be successful doing it...... by investing more at the position and probably less money.
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The problem is that legit vet backups are few and far in between. For every Brad Johnson that pops up as available there are a dozen Brooks Bollingers(retreads).
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I wouldn't say that the Vikes truly mismanaged the QB position until Childress showed up.

Their drafting record during Pep's years may be more a norm league wide...I really don't know and I'll look when I have a PC.

I just think what NE and GB do is a better way.

GB got caught in between 2 seasons ago when Erin went down and they had no one there of decent talent. I think they were looking at Seneca Wallace even.
But for the most part the draft has worked well for them based on the picks they've swung for QBs they've developed.
Not sure the Vikes had the foresight to do that when Pep was rolling....but going forward in that vein may prove worth it, assuming TB pans out.
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I don't necessarily view it as a right or wrong situation but an aggressive vs consevative approach

[The Breeze]

This subject seems to have raised the tenor some.

Certainly not my intention, although if any of the ways I've phrased my opinions have ruffeld feathers or scuffed horns, appy-polly-oggies. Just talking football.
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One thing I can take away from this topic is that I'm feeling better about this teams ability to assess and develop QB talent than I have in years and years. Maybe talent across the board.
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Denny Green may have been lacking as a coach but he basically built Superbowl worthy rosters in both Minny and Arizona quite quickly. The guy had an eye for talent, especially in the trenches.
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The last 2 Viking QBs to play in a Superbowl were Rich Gannon and Brad Johnson...drafted 4 years apart and both dumped in favor of Warren Moon.
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I'm glad Turner banged his hand down on the table last draft. I get the sense he understands more about spotting and developing QB talent than anyone in this organization has had for a long time. Just a hunch.
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The posibility of Zimmer being of equal pedigree on the other side of the ball is good news.

[saint33]

I think something getting lost in this discussion of the value of a backup QB is the actual value aspect of it. I'm with a number of people who wish that Cassel was on the roster next year, I like him and think that he's a very serviceable player in a pinch. Which is why it made sense to pay him last year as we were in need of a serviceable player at QB.

But with emergence of Bridgewater, Cassel's role is altered from serviceable starter to quality backup. The question then becomes what sort of financial investment is appropriate for a player who is a quality backup? And that's why for me it was a smart decision to let Cassel go. A 4.5 million investment in a backup QB, a player who potentially will not see the field at all in an entire season, is in my opinion a poor management of assets. We can likely sign a backup QB who may be only slightly less talented then Cassel for half the price, and then use the remainder of his salary to add depth somewhere else or sweeten the pot for a potential upgrade or resigning at another position.

We can argue the importance of a backup QB, but we also have to keep in mind the value of that position as well. Pointing out past successful backups give a good example of how important the backup position potentially could be, but it still doesn't correlate to our situation because the investment was not on par. For example, Kurt Warner and Tom Brady turned out to be great assets for the team, but going into those seasons would the fans have been satisfied with them as the backup? No, both players were young, one came late in the draft and the other was not drafted at all and had been out of the league for a few years. The teams had minimal investment at the position and the fact that those players panned out for them is less an example of clever preplanning and more so an example of a shot in the dark striking gold.

Basically, a quality backup QB can come from a number of places, most of which don't involve the investment of significant money or high draft picks. The "risk" of going into a season with an unproven or retread backup is mitigated by the fact that their services are only needed in somewhat less common situations. Which is why Cassel was expendable, his investment was too high for the likely return.

[808vikingsfan]

Lately in the NFL, your #2 seeing the field is becoming more of the norm rather than the exception.

An older article (2013)
Role of backup QB continues to grow

We’re through Week 9. Some teams still have eight more games to go. And we’re still looking at 40 percent of teams having been forced to go to their backup anywhere from part of a quarter — the Redskins and Kirk Cousins — to a bunch of games, which is what the Packers are looking at now, with Aaron Rodgers suffering a broken collarbone Monday night.

And so you have to consider: if 13 teams have already featured their backup quarterback halfway through the season, and that backup quarterback tends to be an integrally important factor in the result of the games he featured in, maybe the common conception is wrong. Maybe a backup quarterback isn’t just an insurance policy; maybe he’s worth as much as, if not more, than starters at most of your other positions.

An article from Nov 2014.
Many NFL teams finding one reliable QB not enough

Of the 32 NFL teams, 13 have had multiple starters this season at the sport’s most important position. A total of 48 quarterbacks league-wide have started games this season, meaning that teams have averaged 1-1/2 starters apiece.

“The year we went to the Super Bowl [with the Atlanta Falcons in the 1998 season], Chris Chandler got hurt and we had Steve DeBerg,” Reeves said. “You always have to have someone who can come in and win a few games for you.”

[Raptorman]

I just think what NE and GB do is a better way.

GB got caught in between 2 seasons ago when Erin went down and they had no one there of decent talent. I think they were looking at Seneca Wallace even.
But for the most part the draft has worked well for them based on the picks they've swung for QBs they've developed.
Not sure the Vikes had the foresight to do that when Pep was rolling....but going forward in that vein may prove worth it, assuming TB pans out.
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I don't necessarily view it as a right or wrong situation but an aggressive vs consevative approach

All right, lets get something out here. The Packers and Patriots are no great QB factories. It's a myth. Since 1990 the Pats have drafted 13 QB's. Granted they hit on 2, Bledsoe and Brady. But only other QB they drafted that has done anything is Cassel.

Green Bay QB factory is another myth. Since 1990 they have drafted 14 QB's. Only 2 have done anything of note. Hasselbeck and Rodgers. Hasselbeck was in Green Bay 2 years before he was traded to the Seahawks. Let's look at some of his other backup's .....Doug Pederson, Steve Bono,(Drafted by MN), Jim McMahon, Ty Detmer, JT O'Sullivan, Craig Nall. And should I even go into some of the Packers QB draft picks. BJ Coleman, Jay Barker, Ron Mcada, Kyle Wachholtz........you get the point.

Do they do well with the players they draft? Who knows, only Cassel had to prove himself for any extended period of time as a backup. Flynn I think is .500 for the Packers as a backup. So I don't know were this great QB factory BS comes from.

BTW, Gannon was originally drafted by New England and then traded to MN.

[mmvikes]

All right, lets get something out here. The Packers and Patriots are no great QB factories. It's a myth. Since 1990 the Pats have drafted 13 QB's. Granted they hit on 2, Bledsoe and Brady. But only other QB they drafted that has done anything is Cassel.

Green Bay QB factory is another myth. Since 1990 they have drafted 14 QB's. Only 2 have done anything of note. Hasselbeck and Rodgers. Hasselbeck was in Green Bay 2 years before he was traded to the Seahawks. Let's look at some of his other backup's .....Doug Pederson, Steve Bono,(Drafted by MN), Jim McMahon, Ty Detmer, JT O'Sullivan, Craig Nall. And should I even go into some of the Packers QB draft picks. BJ Coleman, Jay Barker, Ron Mcada, Kyle Wachholtz........you get the point.

Do they do well with the players they draft? Who knows, only Cassel had to prove himself for any extended period of time as a backup. Flynn I think is .500 for the Packers as a backup. So I don't know were this great QB factory BS comes from.

BTW, Gannon was originally drafted by New England and then traded to MN.

I don't know that anyone is saying they are QB factories. Just that they invest a little more in the position. A young QB who has had time to catch up to the speed of the game and learn the offenzive system you run is invaluable. It doesn't mean they are great QBs, but it is better insurance than having to pull one off the scrap heap that you have to invest cap space in and still needs to learn your offense. And most of those have proven they are not starter quality already. No need to waste a high pick on them, just find a developemental project and give them a couple of years to learn. If they are no good you already have another in the pipeline to turn to. If they show promise, you have someone who can take over for a few games and not send your season in the toilet. Both teams have also been able to turn some of those backups into draft picks down the road. It seems a pretty good path to follow.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Let's look at it this way.....

The Bears just received a 5th round pick for Brandon Marshall

We just received a better 5th round pick and a 7th round pick for Matt Cassel


Bottom line is, it was a great trade and Spielman is a wheeler and dealer. He knew the Bills were desperate so I'm guessing he kept pressing them until he got what he wanted.

[DK Sweets]

I agree Mike. The deal we got for Cassel was too good to pass up.

[Mothman]

I agree Mike. The deal we got for Cassel was too good to pass up.

I think that's the majority opinion. I'm certainly happy with it. My interest now is in who fills that position and who will be the #3 QB in 2015. Do the Vikes see Devlin as their second or third QB? Is he just camp fodder and will they add two more QBs?

I really want to see how they handle the depth chart at this position over the next few years.