Vikings @ Lions Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15

[sneaxsneax]

Sitting on the loss for a bit and I'm not as upset as I immediately was, someone above pointed out the draft pick situation.

The best we can hope for now given we were already mathematically eliminated, is competitve games like this that show us flashes of the future, and young guys growing. But ultimately just coming up short to benefit from the easier foward year schedule and draft pick. So all in all I can't be to upset about today, this was probably tangibly better for our team going foward.

[John_Viveiros]

Both INTs were bad throws and Jennings' great sideline catch definitely came on an inaccurate pass. It's amazing that ended up being a completion. Teddy was throwing some passes high in the second half too.

I'm not trying to rip him because he made some excellent throws too and overall, he played a pretty good game. However, he did have some accuracy issues today.

Andrew Luck throws 16 incompletions per game (Teddy threw 10 today, for comparison). I don't think I would say that, on average, he has "accuracy issues". QB's fling the ball around, expecting receivers to do certain things, and sometimes the receivers don't do what they expect, and the ball isn't on target, and yes, sometimes the ball just isn't where it's supposed to be - even for the best QB's (see Rodgers, Aaron, vs. Buffalo).

Could the Jennings catch have been a back shoulder attempt by Teddy? Dunno.

If perfection is our standard, we're going to be mighty unhappy fans.

[John_Viveiros]

Sitting on the loss for a bit and I'm not as upset as I immediately was, someone above pointed out the draft pick situation.

The best we can hope for now given we were already mathematically eliminated, is competitve games like this that show us flashes of the future, and young guys growing. But ultimately just coming up short to benefit from the easier foward year schedule and draft pick. So all in all I can't be to upset about today, this was probably tangibly better for our team going foward.

It's very important to me that we don't end the year with a losing record. I'd also like to beat the 6 win "over-under" from Vegas.

[tmscr]

Andrew Luck throws 16 incompletions per game (Teddy threw 10 today, for comparison). I don't think I would say that, on average, he has "accuracy issues". QB's fling the ball around, expecting receivers to do certain things, and sometimes the receivers don't do what they expect, and the ball isn't on target, and yes, sometimes the ball just isn't where it's supposed to be - even for the best QB's (see Rodgers, Aaron, vs. Buffalo).

Could the Jennings catch have been a back shoulder attempt by Teddy? Dunno.

If perfection is our standard, we're going to be mighty unhappy fans.

The mistakes of the guys you mention generally aren't so badly missed they turn into INTs though. Again, I really like teddy but he missed on three big passes today that turned out to be game changers.

[PurpleKoolaid]

Teddy had his ups and downs. I just watched his first INT again, and Johnson or wright were interfered with. That's why the pass looked bad. And why they didn't chase the DB that got the int. They were yelling at the ref about it. Go back and watch that first int.

The second INT was bad. It messed with Teddys head enough that he wasn't the same QB. And that last minute, once again Teddy and Zimmer (or Norv) had communication problems again.

And Walsh is on about the level Kalil is. Don't know when his payday is, but I hope the Vikes don't resign him. I bet hes hardly average this year. And last year he was barely average. I put a lot more blame on him. He had one job to do, and failed. The Lions kicker was perfect.

[PurpleKoolaid]

The mistakes of the guys you mention generally aren't so badly missed they turn into INTs though. Again, I really like teddy but he missed on three big passes today that turned out to be game changers.

Not even close to the game changers Walsh had. And he isn't a rookie. And is supposed to be $.

[Mothman]

Yes. That's annoying. Thanks a lot for reminding us.

Sorry about that.

On the other hand, the Vikes are 0-5 against teams with 10-4 or 11-3 records, and 6-3 against the rest.

That's feeling like a rough schedule, especially in a year where we are playing our 2nd QB and 3rd RB, and 40% of our OL. This is the first year in memory when our DB's have held up for most of the year. I notice that our defensive performance is quite a lot better, while the offense is in the bottom fifth of the league. Funny how that injury thing works.

... or not so funny. It can really make a big difference.

[Mothman]

Andrew Luck throws 16 incompletions per game (Teddy threw 10 today, for comparison). I don't think I would say that, on average, he has "accuracy issues".

I think we're talking about different things. Completion % and accuracy aren't equivalent. A completion isn't necessarily an accurate pass and the opposite is also true, an accurate pass can still be dropped or broken up. Accuracy is about placement. To some extent that's going to be reflected in completion percentage but not entirely.

Could the Jennings catch have been a back shoulder attempt by Teddy? Dunno.

If perfection is our standard, we're going to be mighty unhappy fans.

Perfection's not the standard but I don't think criticizing the QB is demanding perfection. There were clearly some accuracy issues today. The two INTs are the most obvious examples and heck, even without some other inaccurate throws, they'd be enough. They were game-changing mistakes.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Wow. I'm wondering what type of accuracy would satisfy you. He was 31-41 for 315 yards against the #2 (?) defense in the league. I think I saw two bad passes - the Wright pass and the second interception. That's pretty good to me. Pretty good against a mediocre defense - fabulous against a team that can get after the passer and pick off passes the way the Lions can. And doing it on the road too.

Yeah exactly. His completion percentage was 75.6% against a legitimate defense. That is very very good. He had 2-3 bad throws today. Every QB in the NFL has bad throws every game

FWIW....

Teddy @ DET was 31 for 41 for 315 which is a 75.6 comp % and 7.7 YPA
Rodgers @ DET was 16 for 27 for 162 which is a 59.2 comp % and 6.0 YPA

Just saying.....Teddy had a couple bad throws that hurt us but to see how the elite played against this team on the road, it definitely shows promise

[Purple Reign]

On the other hand, the Vikes are 0-5 against teams with 10-4 or 11-3 records, and 6-3 against the rest.

That's feeling like a rough schedule, especially in a year where we are playing our 2nd QB and 3rd RB, and 40% of our OL. This is the first year in memory when our DB's have held up for most of the year. I notice that our defensive performance is quite a lot better, while the offense is in the bottom fifth of the league. Funny how that injury thing works.

And that's with the benefit of a last place schedule.

[DK Sweets]

I think Teddy had a very rookie game, but he played well enough that I'm surprised that many people are picking at his performance. Considering the circumstances, I thought he played pretty well.

[Mothman]

I think Teddy had a very rookie game, but he played well enough that I'm surprised that many people are picking at his performance. Considering the circumstances, I thought he played pretty well.

He did but he's the starting QB so his performance is inevitably going to be discussed and analyzed. I see no reason to ignore any aspect of it.

I thought he played an uneven game. He made some excellent throws down the middle of the field and wisely took advantage of a lot of opportunities underneath coverage (much like he did against Atlanta). He made good decisions to throw the ball away on some plays when forcing it likely would have led to trouble. He recognized running lanes and made a few big plays with his feet, also remembering to slide and avoid a big hit. There were a lot of positives in his performance. There were also some negatives. The 2 INTs are the biggest, and they were pretty ugly. I thought a couple of the sacks were due to Teddy hanging onto the ball too long. Maybe he just had nowhere to go with it. He made some inaccurate throws. Overall, it was an uneven performance, most of it encouraging, the rest hopefully attributable to his inexperience.

[DK Sweets]

I'm not saying it's unfair or even unwise to look at every aspect of the performance, but that's kinda my point. When looking at his game, you have to keep in mind how other players have fared against Detroit.

Only Cam Newton, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Carson Palmer, and and Tom Brady had better a QBR than Teddy. Ryan Tannehill is the only QB complete a higher percentage of passes. Brady and Brees were the only ones to throw for more yards.

14 games into the season, and Teddy had at worst the 6th best performance against that defense. He completely outplayed Eli Manning, Jay Cutler, Josh McCown, Kyle Orton, Geno Smith, and Aaron Rodgers.

Of course he had some rough stretches, but it just doesn't seem like the general tone of the board is looking at how he did things well, it seems like people are focusing on the missed plays. If it isn't for a blocked kick, Teddy would have been one of 5 QBs to lead his team to a victory, and he's a rookie playing with an offense that MacGuyver couldn't fix.

I agree he didn't dominate the game and made some mistakes, I just don't understand why we aren't a little bit happier with the progress he's made and instead are wringing our hands at what he hasn't become yet.

It's possible I'm misunderstanding the tone of the board, and my comments are no way directed as a criticism towards you, Jim. I'm mostly piggybacking off of my suggestion from last week that some people seem to be less optimistic about Bridgewater, and it's not really about his performance...it's based on our fear of being let down again.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I'm not saying it's unfair or even unwise to look at every aspect of the performance, but that's kinda my point. When looking at his game, you have to keep in mind how other players have fared against Detroit.

Only Cam Newton, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Carson Palmer, and and Tom Brady had better a QBR than Teddy. Ryan Tannehill is the only QB complete a higher percentage of passes. Brady and Brees were the only ones to throw for more yards.

14 games into the season, and Teddy had at worst the 6th best performance against that defense. He completely outplayed Eli Manning, Jay Cutler, Josh McCown, Kyle Orton, Geno Smith, and Aaron Rodgers.

Of course he had some rough stretches, but it just doesn't seem like the general tone of the board is looking at how he did things well, it seems like people are focusing on the missed plays. If it isn't for a blocked kick, Teddy would have been one of 5 QBs to lead his team to a victory, and he's a rookie playing with an offense that MacGuyver couldn't fix.

I agree he didn't dominate the game and made some mistakes, I just don't understand why we aren't a little bit happier with the progress he's made and instead are wringing our hands at what he hasn't become yet.

It's possible I'm misunderstanding the tone of the board, and my comments are no way directed as a criticism towards you, Jim. I'm mostly piggybacking off of my suggestion from last week that some people seem to be less optimistic about Bridgewater, and it's not really about his performance...it's based on our fear of being let down again.

Great post DK!! I feel the same way. What I don't understand is that Teddy has been a pretty promising player and something to really look forward to yet there are a few on here that don't really give him a whole lot of credit for anything. There seems to be a lot of nitpicking at what he does bad and the good he does goes in one ear and out the other. There is nothing wrong with critiquing a player by any means but I just sense a lot of negativity and nitpicking towards him more than anything. I mean our crowd is chanting his name 3-4 times a game!!! I couldn't tell you the last time that ever happened for a Vikings QB. Nobody is dismissing his mistakes, however he is a rookie. I feel like some need to embrace more of the gains he is making and the promise he is showing rather than overlooking it and nitpicking. I'm not directing this towards anyone specific but I have gotten the same feeling DK has about this boards view on Teddy

[J. Kapp 11]

I'm not saying it's unfair or even unwise to look at every aspect of the performance, but that's kinda my point. When looking at his game, you have to keep in mind how other players have fared against Detroit.

Only Cam Newton, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Carson Palmer, and and Tom Brady had better a QBR than Teddy. Ryan Tannehill is the only QB complete a higher percentage of passes. Brady and Brees were the only ones to throw for more yards.

14 games into the season, and Teddy had at worst the 6th best performance against that defense. He completely outplayed Eli Manning, Jay Cutler, Josh McCown, Kyle Orton, Geno Smith, and Aaron Rodgers.

Of course he had some rough stretches, but it just doesn't seem like the general tone of the board is looking at how he did things well, it seems like people are focusing on the missed plays. If it isn't for a blocked kick, Teddy would have been one of 5 QBs to lead his team to a victory, and he's a rookie playing with an offense that MacGuyver couldn't fix.

I agree he didn't dominate the game and made some mistakes, I just don't understand why we aren't a little bit happier with the progress he's made and instead are wringing our hands at what he hasn't become yet.

It's possible I'm misunderstanding the tone of the board, and my comments are no way directed as a criticism towards you, Jim. I'm mostly piggybacking off of my suggestion from last week that some people seem to be less optimistic about Bridgewater, and it's not really about his performance...it's based on our fear of being let down again.

Total agreement here.

I thought overall Teddy played well. He did have some mistakes, but this was a very, very good defense. He also did what I've been harping on -- improve. Compared to his own performance earlier in the season against the Lions, he was really good.

As for the board's attitude, it's funny how that changes from day to day, even play to play. Read the game thread up until his first pick. There were a lot of "we've got our franchise quarterback" comments floating around. Fans have a short memory. Seems like many have forgotten the 15-for-18 start with 180+ yards in the first quarter and a half. Did he finish as strong as he started? Of course not. But the Lions were not going to just sit there and let him continue to pick them apart.

While not perfect, it was a definite step forward for Teddy against the NFL's top defense on the road.