Brian Robison: weak sauce

[losperros]

Spielman's first few drafts were spotty at best. As far as free agency, he has garnered a good crop of draft picks, but the Vikings really have been unable to get a long-term game changer. It seems that until 2012, the moves were all short-term, and infused with a "gotta win now" desperation. That appears to have improved in the last three drafts, but it's still hard to tell at this point. So criticisms of Rick Spielman are not unfounded. What is arguable is how much authority he has wielded in the past compared to now (hence how culpable is he?), or if he just learned through trial and error and set back the franchise a few seasons in the process.

I think Childress had a big hand in running things, including the draft room. He certainly was responsible for the "all in" nonsense that nearly decimated the entire team.

Perhaps we should consider Spielman's record with Chili and then without. Maybe that will reveal how much actual say in matters that Spielman had.

Anyway, I like the last two drafts a lot.

[jackal]

I think Childress had a big hand in running things, including the draft room. He certainly was responsible for the "all in" nonsense that nearly decimated the entire team.

Perhaps we should consider Spielman's record with Chili and then without. Maybe that will reveal how much actual say in matters that Spielman had.

Anyway, I like the last two drafts a lot.

Excellent post ... Childress was a D Bag as a head coach for us.. I think even Tice did a better job

[PurpleKoolaid]

I think Childress had a big hand in running things, including the draft room. He certainly was responsible for the "all in" nonsense that nearly decimated the entire team.

Perhaps we should consider Spielman's record with Chili and then without. Maybe that will reveal how much actual say in matters that Spielman had.

Anyway, I like the last two drafts a lot.

Why does Childress get all the blame? And that was the closest we have been to a SB since 98. When the TOA was setup, Rick, VP of player personale, had as much weight as anyone else. Yet Childress is despised, for almost getting us to a SB.

My point is, Rick is just as much to blame as anyone for what happened after the Favre fiasco. I didn't like Childress and was as happy as anyone when we got rid of him. But look what happened. We got Musgrave, which was essentially like having Chilly ball and the KOA.

I am also wondering, what do some of you think will happen after Rick has another year? What does this team have, other then a bad record, since he has been in charge of things? I really think, if this season is a tank, and Teddy doesn't live up to expectations, Rick is gone. Im not sure when his extension needs to be signed, but I am betting the Wilf's will wait till the last minute before handing him a wad of cash.

A lot of people thought Fraizer deserved to be fired. But think about what he had. AD, and that's about it. And it wasn't all his fault. I personally think he should have had a coaching staff that should have known how to coach, and I think that falls on him. But the similarities between Fraizers tenure and Zimmer's, are starting out the same. I want to see progress every year, and I haven't seen that from Rick )from his years before GM, and since.) Its not going to matter what our coaches do, if we don't have players that can be coached. And I don't like 'average' players, unless they are backups. I think as fans, we should demand better then average, after all the big games we have failed in to date.

[BGM]

I think it is absolutely fair to hold Spielman accountable for his first few drafts, especially in absence of any evidence that his voice was not a strong one in the draft room. The assumption that he was overruled is based on hearsay, but the fact is, we don't know.

That being said, the last three drafts seem to show marked improvement, but the jury is still out.

What I am hoping is that with Zimmer as HC, we have a long term vision in place. Interestingly enough, the fall of Peterson may make that easier, since there is now no pressure to win him one before he retires.

[PurpleKoolaid]

I think it is absolutely fair to hold Spielman accountable for his first few drafts, especially in absence of any evidence that his voice was not a strong one in the draft room. The assumption that he was overruled is based on hearsay, but the fact is, we don't know.

That being said, the last three drafts seem to show marked improvement, but the jury is still out.

What I am hoping is that with Zimmer as HC, we have a long term vision in place. Interestingly enough, the fall of Peterson may make that easier, since there is now no pressure to win him one before he retires.

I think you and I are on the same page. I am being extra critical of Rick, more so then usual, simply because of the utter collapse of our D in the final minute. It was de-ju-vu all over again. The one constant to the teams of the past years is Rick. Some think he has been good for the Vikings, but I think he's been part of the problem. At least we have easier games coming up, maybe I can get over this gut feeling its going to be another 3 years before all the firing starts, and we are talking talent vrs. coaching, ownership, etc.

[Mothman]

http://blog.startribune.com/sports/acce ... for-week-8

22 — total quarterback pressures for left defensive end Brian Robison this season.
Right defensive end Everson Griffen is getting a lot of attention for his play, and rightfully so. After recording three sacks against the Bills, he now has seven on the season, tied for second in the NFL behind only Broncos outside linebacker Von Miller, who has eight. But believe it or not, Robison has been more disruptive based on the numbers from Pro Football Focus. Robison has only one half of a sack this season, but he has generated 22 total pressures, which ranks 11th in the NFL. Griffen, meanwhile, is tied for 19th with 19, though his pressures have been much more impactful.

[Demi]

Oh man, where are those Kenechi Udeze threads! "Pressures"? Anyone remember those pressures Udeze used to get all the time, that funny, resulted in positive plays for the opposing offense more often than not.

But hey, at least he's close to the QB when he makes a play!

[CbusVikesFan]

Oh man, where are those Kenechi Udeze threads! "Pressures"? Anyone remember those pressures Udeze used to get all the time, that funny, resulted in positive plays for the opposing offense more often than not.

But hey, at least he's close to the QB when he makes a play!

lmao. Yea, next time I play the lotto, I want to miss all the numbers by one. So I can scream, "I was close!"

[Mothman]

Oh man, where are those Kenechi Udeze threads! "Pressures"? Anyone remember those pressures Udeze used to get all the time, that funny, resulted in positive plays for the opposing offense more often than not.

But hey, at least he's close to the QB when he makes a play!

You do understand that getting pressure leads to all sorts of positives for the defense, right?

[fiestavike]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/tag/_/ ... -pressures

This seemed like a somewhat relevant article, although it has nothing directly to do with Robison or the Vikings

Quarterback hurries, pressures, hits or whatever you want to call them are not an official NFL statistic.

But I was browsing through the “season-in-review’’ packages of all four NFC South teams last night and noticed each team had something in, or close to, this category. Again, it’s not official and these numbers are calculated by assistant coaches after watching film.

Take the numbers for what they’re worth because, in my experience, they’re very subjective. I’ve seen some assistant coaches be very fair with this type of thing (tackle totals are done the same way) and I’ve also seen some inflate the numbers a bit to make themselves and their players look good.

I wonder how the vikings compare to the teams mentioned? Is it a pressure when Robison goes behind the qb and sticks his arm out hoping to dislodge the ball? Is it only a pressure if the guy is within 1 step of the QB, or gets to him as he releases the ball? I think its hard to form an opinion based solely off of "pressures" without more knowledge of how teams tabulate them.

[Mothman]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/tag/_/ ... -pressures

This seemed like a somewhat relevant article, although it has nothing directly to do with Robison or the Vikings

That's definitely relevant. Thanks for posting it.

I used to hear local broadcasters here joke about the Bears inflating the tackle numbers for Urlacher.

I wonder how the vikings compare to the teams mentioned? Is it a pressure when Robison goes behind the qb and sticks his arm out hoping to dislodge the ball? Is it only a pressure if the guy is within 1 step of the QB, or gets to him as he releases the ball? I think its hard to form an opinion based solely off of "pressures" without more knowledge of how teams tabulate them.

I agree. The stat I posted from the Strib was based on the numbers from Pro Football Focus, which are still subjective, of course, but at least they're from a (presumably) unbiased source. I'm not sure what their criteria are for determining pressures...

[Pondering Her Percy]

You do understand that getting pressure leads to all sorts of positives for the defense, right?

Exactly

[808vikingsfan]

You can't throw an int if you're sacked.

It makes a difference. Hurries affect the timing of pass plays, even if those plays aren't shut down as they are with sacks. For example, Drew Brees has seven interceptions in 2014, and five of them have come while under pressure.

Through seven games of the 2014 campaign, Robison has 0.5 sacks, which would seem to mark a relative failure. But here's the thing: Robison affects opposing quarterbacks in other ways, and he does so as well as any other defender in the league. In 2013, he led all defensive players in quarterback hurries, according to Pro Football Focus, with 63. And this season, only Cincinnati's Wallace Gilberry has more hurries (20) than Robison's 19.

Smarter Stats: Sacks don't tell the whole story of NFL's best pass rushers

[Pondering Her Percy]

Wow He's definitely playing much better than I thought then!!!

[Demi]

Wow He's definitely playing much better than I thought then!!!

We went through this before. I posted clips of Udeze's "hurries", many of which accomplished nothing. How many of these "hurries" actually result in a positive for the offense? It's one thing if he forces the QB into an early throw that isn't complete, or a sack from a defensive tackle, but they give "hurries" on plays where the QB steps up, throws a completion for a first down. Tell me how that is a positive for the defense?