Lions @ Vikings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 6

[Megatron]

FWIW, Detroits offensive line sucks too. Last year they were one of the best units in the NFL, despite having 3 new starters on the line. Everybody thought continuity would be a big factor and that they would be great this year. They have sucked miserably though, Stafford did a good job avoiding sacks for the most part, but if you watch again look how many free rushers were running right through Detroits line. They've sucked at run and pass blocking, and statistically are one of the worst if not the worst in the league.

Lions fans are asking the same questions, how come despite continuity they are sucking so bad? A big part of it is coaching, the new OC changed the blocking scheme from man to zone, and is calling more long developing plays instead of screens, quick slants and things like that. Many factors go into it, and coaching can be a huge reason for a Olines success or failure. It takes time too for a new OC to figure their new offense out, since there are so many moving pieces. Playing a Dline with 3 first round picks of course plays a part too obviously.

[fiestavike]

You guys don't need to worry so much. Detroits defense is really, really good, especially the front line. Their defense is tops in the league and top two in basically every statistical category, and #1 in the stats that really matter. You have to go back to 1970 to find a defense, that in its first 6 games, held opponents to such few points.

Thanks for the sentiment! We really are terrible in some areas, and you guys demolished us yesterday. It was a tough matchup of Detroit's strength (D line) vs our weakness (OLine) and it didn't go well. We have 3 guys on our line playing so bad they have no business starting in the NFL and putting those guys out against Suh, Fairly and Ansah was like sending lambs to the slaughter.

[Megatron]

Thanks for the sentiment! We really are terrible in some areas, and you guys demolished us yesterday. It was a tough matchup of Detroit's strength (D line) vs our weakness (OLine) and it didn't go well. We have 3 guys on our line playing so bad they have no business starting in the NFL and putting those guys out against Suh, Fairly and Ansah was like sending lambs to the slaughter.

Yes, the Lions happened to win, I am not here to gloat or anything though. I was just curious about what you guys had to say about the game (inter-division games are more interesting, and I will admit to some gloating on bears forums if we beat them- but they deserve it and many other bad things). I saw you guys saying the exact same things about your Oline as Lions fans are saying about ours. The Lions have had a great offense for years, work has been put into the defense for a long time, and finally the defense is playing great, and now the offense is playing bad. Our offensive line has been terrible, and it's a big problem for us. Calvin and Bush will be back before long, but if the Oline doesn't shape up, it's going to be hard to make a push for the playoffs/division win. I think if the offense can find a way back to being top 3 in the league, paired with a great defense... the Lions might finally be able to make some noise in the playoffs. The talent is there for it. I think most Lion fans expect, that in same ol' Lions fashion, something will fall apart and ruin the season for us, like our Oline falling to shambles or something, which is already starting to happen.

Anyways, I wouldn't let Bridgewaters performance worry you guys to much, I don't think any QB would do much better. Rodgers only managed 1 TD, and he looked bad and was taking sacks too. And the Lions defense is playing better now than it was against GB, as it took time for guys coming in because of injuries to gel. I think the Vikings can be a good team, I expect a good year out of you guys next year and going forward. I think this is a bit of a rebuilding year for you guys tbh. 1 good draft, some smart FA pickups, and Bridgewater in his second year... you guys could be the team to beat in the NFC N next year. When it comes to free agents, maybe you guys will spring for Suh this off season? Lol. I would dump Jennings, or get him to take a pay cut, definitely not worth the money. It looks like maybe he is phoning it in.

P.S. beat the snot out of the Bears, they are very overrated and I think you guys are plenty talented enough to beat them this year. I wish u guys luck for the rest of the season (except for the 2nd time we play of course)

/endramble

[maembe]

Bridgewater has had 55 percent of his dropbacks last longer than 2.6 seconds, the fifth-most of any quarterback with 75 or more dropbacks

http://vikingsjournal.com/_/minnesota-v ... -line-r178

He's got to get the ball out faster. I'm not a Cassell fan, but the one thing that he is above average at is being decisive.

[Mothman]

http://vikingsjournal.com/_/minnesota-v ... -line-r178

He's got to get the ball out faster. I'm not a Cassell fan, but the one thing that he is above average at is being decisive.

Thanks for the link.

So many factors play into the problems the offense is having that it's hard to know where to begin. Bridgewater needs to get the ball out of his hands more quickly but that's often easier said than done. I haven't looked closely enough at his performances to get a feel for whether he's holding onto the ball too long because he's indecisive, because receivers aren't open, because routes are developing too slowly, etc. It may be all of the above. The rules still dictate that if the QB is in the pocket, the ball has to at least be thrown in the vicinity of an eligible receiver so getting it out of his hands means either finding someone open, throwing it away safely or getting out of the pocket so he can just toss it away without drawing an intentional grounding penalty. All easier said than done in 2.6 seconds.

I'm not making excuses for him, just wondering about the source(s) of that particular problem.

[J. Kapp 11]

Thanks for the link.

So many factors play into the problems the offense is having that it's hard to know where to begin. Bridgewater needs to get the ball out of his hands more quickly but that's often easier said than done. I haven't looked closely enough at his performances to get a feel for whether he's holding onto the ball too long because he's indecisive, because receivers aren't open, because routes are developing too slowly, etc. It may be all of the above. The rules still dictate that if the QB is in the pocket, the ball has to at least be thrown in the vicinity of an eligible receiver so getting it out of his hands means either finding someone open, throwing it away safely or getting out of the pocket so he can just toss it away without drawing an intentional grounding penalty. All easier said than done in 2.6 seconds.

I'm not making excuses for him, just wondering about the source(s) of that particular problem.

Totally agree Jim.

He's made two starts, and he had no trouble getting rid of the ball in his other start against Atlanta.

The Detroit game was his first against real pressure. Growing pains were inevitable. Patience recommended.

[Mothman]

Totally agree Jim.

He's made two starts, and he had no trouble getting rid of the ball in his other start against Atlanta.

The Detroit game was his first against real pressure. Growing pains were inevitable. Patience recommended.

We definitely need to be patient with Bridgewater but meanwhile, this is something Turner needs to address startegically. Against Atlanta, they utilized a game plan designed to get the ball out of Bridgewater's hands quickly (at least early in the game). However, the Lions said they noticed on film that Bridgewater tended to hang on to the ball a little too long and it's something they set out to attack and exploit. Both Detroit and Green Bay seemed intent on taking away some of the quick-hitting routes that worked against Atlanta but the Vikes can't just let defenses dictate to them like that. Norv has to find a way around it. Until the Vikes show they can run the ball consistently or pass protect well enough to beat teams down the field, I think there's now a template for shutting their offense down. Take away the short stuff and attack the QB.

[frosted]

We definitely need to be patient with Bridgewater but meanwhile, this is something Turner needs to address startegically. Against Atlanta, they utilized a game plan designed to get the ball out of Bridgewater's hands quickly (at least early in the game). However, the Lions said they noticed on film that Bridgewater tended to hang on to the ball a little too long and it's something they set out to attack and exploit. Both Detroit and Green Bay seemed intent on taking away some of the quick-hitting routes that worked against Atlanta but the Vikes can't just let defenses dictate to them like that. Norv has to find a way around it. Until the Vikes show they can run the ball consistently or pass protect well enough to beat teams down the field, I think there's now a template for shutting their offense down. Take away the short stuff and attack the QB.

Wouldn't mind seeing some double moves to counter that defensive strategy.

[Purple Reign]

Wouldn't mind seeing some double moves to counter that defensive strategy.

You do realize that double moves take much longer to develop and so far the oline just hasn't given TB enough time for those type of routes.

[soflavike]

Yessss.... Fox pulled the plug on Mike Goldberg.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... fox-booth/

Seee ya!

[frosted]

You do realize that double moves take much longer to develop and so far the oline just hasn't given TB enough time for those type of routes.

Is that a question?

[Purple Reign]

Is that a question?

More of a rhetorical question. Just pointing out the obvious that those routes don't work unless the QB gets time to let them develop. So the main issue isn't simply running more double move routes.

[Mothman]

More of a rhetorical question. Just pointing out the obvious that those routes don't work unless the QB gets time to let them develop. So the main issue isn't simply running more double move routes.

It's definitely not the main issue but I think it's a good idea. It might be a great way to get Patterson or Jennings going.

[frosted]

More of a rhetorical question. Just pointing out the obvious that those routes don't work unless the QB gets time to let them develop. So the main issue isn't simply running more double move routes.

They do take more time to develop than a quick hitting route, but the Vikings protection does not completely preclude them from using double moves. There were instances Sunday where a double move absolutely would not have had time to develop. Believe it or not, there were other instances where it absolutely would have. Double moves can develop quickly enough depending on the route combination used. I didn't state that the 'main issue is simply running more double move routes'. I believe there could be some value to dropping one in here or there, as a response to Jim's comment about defenses taking away quick hitting routes.

You're right though, definitely tougher to execute in the instances where protection has been shaky.

[Mothman]

Yessss.... Fox pulled the plug on Mike Goldberg.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... fox-booth/

Seee ya!

Good move by FOX.... the job Goldberg did on the broadcast was terrible but once he made it worse online, he probably made their decision easy.