No More Ponder!!!!

[Mothman]

I'm not sure he would have to stop his dropback, but scramble away from pressure? Good QBs do it often. That's why they're effective, they know how to feel pressure and extend plays

That's exactly what Ponder did! What do you want out of his performance on this play? To react any sooner, he'd have to cut off his drop back. He sees the pressure in front of him, reacts to it, evades it by scrambling in the only direction he can realistically go because there's a defender to his right, keeps his eyes downfield and ultimately throws the ball away because there's nobody open. What more could he do? It really seems like you're reaching to find fault with Ponder on a play where he did nothing wrong.

I disagree. Normally, refs will call holding only when obvious or it affects the play. If Loadholt drags his defender down, yes it will be called. If Ponder somehow steps up between the blocks, Loadholt has the position to hold his block and IMO, would not get flagged.

That seems unrealistic. Holding doesn't just get called when a player is taken to the ground and Loadholt's hold clearly affected this play. Otherwise, that defender was coming in fast and unblocked and Ponder was going down. You want him to "somehow" step up between blocks? Where was he supposed to step up?

I agree. Loadholt screwed up. But Ponder made the play worse by his reaction (or lack of it).

He did the only thing he could do. There's no shortage of plays in that game where we could legitimately criticize Ponder's choices but it really seems like a reach on this one.

[Demi]

I think the hatred toward him is more of a result of him being a starter when he clearly shouldn't have been last year. Doesn't mean I can't enjoy a good joke.

The hatred toward him is a result of him being a below average player. Who was drafted and given a few years to reinforce it, and now, despite being a proven below average player, is being kept as a backup after again reinforcing the fact that he doesn't belong in an NFL game.

He did the only thing he could do.

Even an average NFL QB should see the tight end is about to come open, or moves to the space the tackle was occupying before the defender took him to the inside. He does neither. He deer-in-headlight panics. My god it'd be horrible being an offensive linemen for this clown. Time and again he could move in the pocket and make use of the offensive linemen, instead he is like a chicken with it's head cut off.

[808vikingsfan]

That's exactly what Ponder did! What do you want out of his performance on this play? To react any sooner, he'd have to cut off his drop back. He sees the pressure in front of him, reacts to it, evades it by scrambling in the only direction he can realistically go because there's a defender to his right, keeps his eyes downfield and ultimately throws the ball away because there's nobody open. What more could he do? It really seems like you're reaching to find fault with Ponder on a play where he did nothing wrong.

He did not feel the pressure. He reacted when it was too late. He was so concerned with the play down the field, he had no clue what was going around him until it was too late. He just doesn't have pocket presence.

That seems unrealistic. Holding doesn't just get called when a player is taken to the ground and Loadholt's hold clearly affected this play. Otherwise, that defender was coming in fast and unblocked and Ponder was going down. You want him to "somehow" step up between blocks? Where was he supposed to step up?

This picture is showing when he finally feels the pressure. By this time, it's too late. That's my point. If he saw or felt the pressure in image 2 or 3 from your previous post, there's a wide open lane.

He did the only thing he could do. There's no shortage of plays in that game where we could legitimately criticize Ponder's choices but it really seems like a reach on this one.

No matter how much times I watch it, I still see two failures.

[Leafman]

Even an average NFL QB should see the tight end is about to come open, or moves to the space the tackle was occupying before the defender took him to the inside. He does neither. He deer-in-headlight panics.

This is the big one for me. Ponder has multiple shortcomings in game situations ... lack of situational awareness, lack of poise in the pocket, lack of an internal clock, regular failure to go through progressions, staring down his receivers, then losing vision downfield when the pressure comes ... but the biggest liability is his frequent failure to anticipate his receivers getting open, so he misses those tight windows of opportunity that are absolutely critical for completing 60+% of passes instead of low 50s or worse.

Watch the top 15 QBs in the league, and they regularly throw balls to the space where the receiver *will* be open, instead of waiting to confirm he is open to release the ball, or worse, moving on to another receiver to check and see if he is open. Those QBs can see what is about to happen ... Ponder seems capable of this on only a small fraction of his pass plays, when he has great protection for an inordinately long period of time and a big pocket to step up in, or there is just blatantly blown or soft coverage.

LEAFMAN THE PURPLE FAN

[VikingLord]

It's clear who screwed up on this play and it wasn't the QB..

As much as I never want to see Ponder take another snap as a Viking, on this particular play Loadholt got beat so bad and so quickly that no QB would have a real chance of making something out of this play. I'm just glad Ponder didn't make it worse by trying to make something out of it.

At first I was puzzled by why he moved to his left, but the pressure from Matthews clearly seals off any escape to the right. Could he have felt that pressure faster and moved into the space vacated by the taking the inside lane? Sure, but to do that he would have to be looking in that direction and/or sense where that pressure is coming from and he doesn't (and, I would argue, would have really hard time doing that given how fast Loadholt gets smoked).

The general inconsistency of the Vikings offensive line appears to be a recurrent theme. On this play, everyone does their job except for one guy, and that one guy blows it so bad it destroys any chance of the play developing. Seems like this line is playing the same way it did last year for the most part - single players break down on a given play - not always the same guy, but the breakdowns just happen all over the place. If you're looking at an individual player over the course of a game, you see the individual just having a few bad plays, but given how they seem to round-robin among the offensive lienmen, their cumulative effect is very noticeable.

[Mothman]

As much as I never want to see Ponder take another snap as a Viking, on this particular play Loadholt got beat so bad and so quickly that no QB would have a real chance of making something out of this play. I'm just glad Ponder didn't make it worse by trying to make something out of it.

At first I was puzzled by why he moved to his left, but the pressure from Matthews clearly seals off any escape to the right. Could he have felt that pressure faster and moved into the space vacated by the taking the inside lane? Sure, but to do that he would have to be looking in that direction and/or sense where that pressure is coming from and he doesn't (and, I would argue, would have really hard time doing that given how fast Loadholt gets smoked).

The general inconsistency of the Vikings offensive line appears to be a recurrent theme. On this play, everyone does their job except for one guy, and that one guy blows it so bad it destroys any chance of the play developing. Seems like this line is playing the same way it did last year for the most part - single players break down on a given play - not always the same guy, but the breakdowns just happen all over the place. If you're looking at an individual player over the course of a game, you see the individual just having a few bad plays, but given how they seem to round-robin among the offensive lienmen, their cumulative effect is very noticeable.

Very well said. I cant add anything to it other than to say I agree and because it's a cumulative effect spread over the line, I think that makes it a more difficult problem to solve.

[The Breeze]

^^ which is why I think coaching is a large part of it

[808vikingsfan]

Could he have felt that pressure faster and moved into the space vacated by the taking the inside lane? Sure, but to do that he would have to be looking in that direction and/or sense where that pressure is coming from and he doesn't (and, I would argue, would have really hard time doing that given how fast Loadholt gets smoked).

This is my whole point. He could have but he didn't. IMO, it doesn't matter if Loadholt got 'smoked'. Linemen get beat off the line. Defenders blitz unabated all the time. It doesn't mean it should be the end of the play. Other QBs can sense when and where pressure is coming. Ponder has never had a feel for the pocket.

Look at this play. I know it's not the same play, but Joseph beats his man in similar fashion as Loadholt (gets held a little too).


At this point, if he scrambles right, I think a holding penalty gets called.


Result? Rodgers moves away from the defenders momentum (left), and extends the play.

[Mothman]

Look at this play. I know it's not the same play, but Joseph beats his man in similar fashion as Loadholt (gets held a little too).


At this point, if he scrambles right, I think a holding penalty gets called.


Result? Rodgers moves away from the defenders momentum (left), and extends the play.

Which is exactly what Ponder did so it's very difficult to understand why you're so insistent on taking him to task for this play, on which he did nothing wrong. He wasn't sacked. He didn't cause Loadholt to hold (that was a result of Loadholt blowing his block so badly that holding was his only way to "recover"). He scrambled away from the pressure, extended the play, kept his eyes downfield and threw the ball away when he had nobody open. Why direct us to a play on which Rodgers escaped pressure as if it illustrates what you wanted Ponder to do when that's what Ponder did? It makes no sense to me.

Again, I mean no offense. It's just starting to seem like you're determined to take Ponder to task for something on this particular play. If you want to take him to task for not sensing pressure and escaping it, why not find a play on which he actually failed to do that? It shouldn't be too hard.

[Purple Reign]

You can't compare those 2 plays. Ponder was under center and turned his back to the line to first fake a hand off before turning to look down field for a receiver where Rodgers was in the shotgun and could immediately see the pressure coming up the middle at the snap.

[PurpleKoolaid]

Every time I read this topic, I pray there's a post saying #7 was let go. Just cut, dropped off this team. To me, its as important to get of him now as it is to get rid of AD.

[Demi]

Every time I read this topic, I pray there's a post saying #7 was let go. Just cut, dropped off this team. To me, its as important to get of him now as it is to get rid of AD.

Honestly, Cassell went down, why didn't they try to find another veteran QB to bring in? Instead Ponder is one bad play away from starting? And then he starts, and does THAT? And they STILL keep him as the primary backup?

[Husker Vike]

There has to be someone, anyone in need of a job holding a clipboard. Please find him and cut Ponder.

[maembe]

You can't compare those 2 plays. Ponder was under center and turned his back to the line to first fake a hand off before turning to look down field for a receiver where Rodgers was in the shotgun and could immediately see the pressure coming up the middle at the snap.

There's also only one lineman getting beat, so it fairly easy for Rodgers to slide one way. In the Ponder example he's also getting blitzed from the side he supposedly should have run to, which is likely why he didn't go that way. I'd also like to point out the absurdity of comparing one of the greatest qbs of all time to our third string quarterback.

[808vikingsfan]

Which is exactly what Ponder did so it's very difficult to understand why you're so insistent on taking him to task for this play, on which he did nothing wrong. He wasn't sacked. He didn't cause Loadholt to hold (that was a result of Loadholt blowing his block so badly that holding was his only way to "recover"). He scrambled away from the pressure, extended the play, kept his eyes downfield and threw the ball away when he had nobody open. Why direct us to a play on which Rodgers escaped pressure as if it illustrates what you wanted Ponder to do when that's what Ponder did? It makes no sense to me.

Ponder didn't do what Rodgers did. Ponder scrambled in the same direction as the defenders momentum (where Loadholt was blocking his man). Rodgers moved in the opposite direction away from the defender and used his blocker.

Again, I mean no offense. It's just starting to seem like you're determined to take Ponder to task for something on this particular play. If you want to take him to task for not sensing pressure and escaping it, why not find a play on which he actually failed to do that? It shouldn't be too hard.

I was trying to show how poor Ponder's decisions are when he is under pressure, which obviously I'm doing a very poor job at with this example. I still think a capable QB in the same situation would've been able to salvage that play. Oh well, hopefully, this will be the last Ponder thread ever.