No More Ponder!!!!

[Mothman]

If the team's psychological makeup is so weak that Ponder's mere presence on the roster undermines them than the Vikings are in very deep trouble. I don't dismiss the idea that there's a difference a between a QB a team believes in and rallies around and one who they doubt but in the end, they're supposed to be a team. If they didn't believe in Ponder, do they believe in themselves, in the rest of their teammates? Last night should have been a game in which the Vikings rallied together because their starting QB was out and they knew that Ponder, who had minimal reps as the third stringer, a short week to prepare to start, and has always needed plenty of quality support from his team to win, was going to need that support. Instead, they went out and played poor, undisciplined football. Instead of raising their play to help their backup QB play at his highest level, the whole team, including Ponder, came out and played at some of their worst football. As far as Im concerned, that was inexcusable, no matter who was playing QB.

[Leafman]

If the team's psychological makeup is so weak that Ponder's mere presence on the roster undermines them than the Vikings are in very deep trouble.

I think this is exactly the case. And I believe it's a remnant from the previous experiences with Ponder at the helm. And this is Zimmer's biggest hurdle ... not rebuilding the OLine, not determining which Running Back will replace Peterson, not pass rushing as a team ... yes these are all issues that need to be addressed, but the team's weak psychological makeup is an urgent issue that needs fixing asap. By the coach, and by the team leader(s) amongst the players.

To address BGM's point, I don't think cutting Ponder loose cures any ills, but keeping him on the team almost certainly exacerbates the ills that exist ... to a point that exceeds the financial damage done by the cap hit, in my opinion.

LEAFMAN THE PURPLE FAN

[J. Kapp 11]

Apparently you didn't see all those quick short passes that Ponder missed on badly early in the game. Or all those deep balls he missed on badly, even with a clean pocket. And I hate to break it to you, but the average pass in this league is released in 2.5 to 3 seconds from the snap. I've clocked some of Ponders games, and he's much slower at getting rid of the ball the most QB's. And because of that, it makes the o-line look worse than it is. Remember the Steelers game last year? Strange how the o-line looked immediately better in that 1 game when Cassel started, and it's becaues he was getting rid of the ball in a timely manner. Last week was the same, the o-line looked better with Teddy because Teddy can make a decision and get rid of the ball quickly. Not to mention he can buy additional time with his elusiveness.

This ^^^

Let me try to add my assessment as truthfully as I can, without resorting to "Ponder sucks."

I've heard great quarterbacks talk about how you have to be aware of the rush, but not focused on it. Which is to say, you have to know where it is so you can avoid it, but your mind can't dwell on it. Christian Ponder simply can't do that. His mind, his eyes, his attention -- all focused on the rush. It causes him to panic and his mechanics go to pot. That's why he looks so good "in shorts," such as on a Pro Day or on the practice field. He isn't worried about getting hit, and he just relaxes and fires the rock. In games, he panics, even on plays where he isn't in that much trouble. The pick-six was a perfect example. Yes, he was pressured. But look closely. The guy hit his arm AFTER he released the ball. He was three yards away when Ponder started his motion. Watch Ponder's head as he throws. He's actually ducking. You just can't do that.

When you watch Teddy, you don't see those flinching traits. Teddy is aware of the rush, but not consumed by it. In fact, he's downright calm. Cassel is better than Ponder when he's rushed, but nowhere near as calm as Teddy.

Ponder's footwork is also a problem. It's absolutely horrific, and it's the main reason he misfires so often, even on checkdowns. I'd say "go back and watch the tape of last night's game," but that would be cruel. But my wife can attest to how many times I yelled at the TV, "Set your feet!" last night. Even when he has time, he has happy feet, and it causes him to miss easy throws.

The last thing ... when the pressure gets heavy, Ponder immediately tucks the ball. To me, that indicates his mindset is one of self-preservation. He's scared. Honestly, I don't blame him. I'd be scared as hell out there. But I'm not a first-round draft pick on an NFL team. Nobody likes to get hit, but great quarterbacks know it's part of the job. If courage is defined as the ability to overcome fear, then Ponder is sunk. You can't teach courage. You just can't.

The Vikings did what they had to do last night in playing Ponder. He was all they had. Green Bay obviously knew his tendencies, and they exploited them. When the game was out of hand and they didn't pressure him as much, Ponder did better. Unfortunately, other teams aren't going to count One-Mississippi, Two-Mississippi before they rush. He's our backup, but we'll be much better off if he never has to play another down.

[Husker Vike]

I absolutely agree that lasts nights train wreck was a total team effort, but there is no doubt that the leader of the clown show was Ponder. He has to be the most skittish QB in the league ,even when he had a clean pocket he panicked and made bad decisions. Please Mr Spielman cut him and end this nightmare, coaches and fans should not have to watch this anymore.

[J. Kapp 11]

I think this is exactly the case. And I believe it's a remnant from the previous experiences with Ponder at the helm. And this is Zimmer's biggest hurdle ... not rebuilding the OLine, not determining which Running Back will replace Peterson, not pass rushing as a team ... yes these are all issues that need to be addressed, but the team's weak psychological makeup is an urgent issue that needs fixing asap. By the coach, and by the team leader(s) amongst the players.

I agree totally.

It's like the U.S. Ryder Cup team. Guys like Jim Furyk and Phil Mickelson and Zach Johnson are fine players, but they've lost so much that they really need to NOT be on future teams. It's like their mindset is, "I hope we don't get our butts beat again." Younger guys like Patrick Reed, who haven't been drubbed in 8 of the past 10 cups, basically go out there and say, "F-this. I'm beating you, period." They don't have the baggage.

Guys like Christian Ponder sort of represent the baggage of losing. He's not alone. There is eventually going to have to be a roster overhaul of guys who don't have the mental toughness to "row their way out of the loser stream" (to coin a very funny commercial).

[John_Viveiros]

I liked this, from the Bleacher Report:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2219 ... ian-ponder

At one point in the second half, Ponder's passer rating actually sneaked back into double digits—from 8.6 to 10.8—by him throwing consecutive incomplete passes.

Have you ever heard anything so pitiful?

[Leafman]

Let me try to add my assessment as truthfully as I can, without resorting to "Ponder sucks."

I've heard great quarterbacks talk about how you have to be aware of the rush, but not focused on it. Which is to say, you have to know where it is so you can avoid it, but your mind can't dwell on it. Christian Ponder simply can't do that. His mind, his eyes, his attention -- all focused on the rush. It causes him to panic and his mechanics go to pot. That's why he looks so good "in shorts," such as on a Pro Day or on the practice field. He isn't worried about getting hit, and he just relaxes and fires the rock. In games, he panics, even on plays where he isn't in that much trouble. The pick-six was a perfect example. Yes, he was pressured. But look closely. The guy hit his arm AFTER he released the ball. He was three yards away when Ponder started his motion. Watch Ponder's head as he throws. He's actually ducking. You just can't do that.

When you watch Teddy, you don't see those flinching traits. Teddy is aware of the rush, but not consumed by it. In fact, he's downright calm. Cassel is better than Ponder when he's rushed, but nowhere near as calm as Teddy.

Ponder's footwork is also a problem. It's absolutely horrific, and it's the main reason he misfires so often, even on checkdowns. I'd say "go back and watch the tape of last night's game," but that would be cruel. But my wife can attest to how many times I yelled at the TV, "Set your feet!" last night. Even when he has time, he has happy feet, and it causes him to miss easy throws.

The last thing ... when the pressure gets heavy, Ponder immediately tucks the ball. To me, that indicates his mindset is one of self-preservation. He's scared. Honestly, I don't blame him. I'd be scared as hell out there. But I'm not a first-round draft pick on an NFL team. Nobody likes to get hit, but great quarterbacks know it's part of the job. If courage is defined as the ability to overcome fear, then Ponder is sunk. You can't teach courage. You just can't.

The Vikings did what they had to do last night in playing Ponder. He was all they had. Green Bay obviously knew his tendencies, and they exploited them. When the game was out of hand and they didn't pressure him as much, Ponder did better. Unfortunately, other teams aren't going to count One-Mississippi, Two-Mississippi before they rush. He's our backup, but we'll be much better off if he never has to play another down.

Absolutely spot-on assessment, Joe.

LEAFMAN THE PURPLE FAN

[DK Sweets]

I liked this, from the Bleacher Report:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2219 ... ian-ponder Have you ever heard anything so pitiful?

That is seriously depressing...

I'd say "go back and watch the tape of last night's game," but that would be cruel.

[Leafman]

It's like the U.S. Ryder Cup team. Guys like Jim Furyk and Phil Mickelson and Zach Johnson are fine players, but they've lost so much that they really need to NOT be on future teams. It's like their mindset is, "I hope we don't get our butts beat again." Younger guys like Patrick Reed, who haven't been drubbed in 8 of the past 10 cups, basically go out there and say, "F-this. I'm beating you, period." They don't have the baggage.

Guys like Christian Ponder sort of represent the baggage of losing. He's not alone. There is eventually going to have to be a roster overhaul of guys who don't have the mental toughness to "row their way out of the loser stream" (to coin a very funny commercial).

From the film Miracle:

Craig Patrick: "You're missing some of the best players."

Herb Brooks: "I'm not looking for the best players, Craig. I'm looking for the right ones."


LEAFMAN THE PURPLE FAN

[MikethePurple]

Absolutely spot-on assessment, Joe.

LEAFMAN THE PURPLE FAN

+1. I think that's a great assessment of Ponder. He really has the physical tools to be successful (although I'm not sure he ever would be what analysts would call a strong armed quarterback) but the main component that is lacking for Ponder is the mental side of the game. He really can not see past the pass rush or follow through with progressions. I think its speaks to his uncomfortableness in the pocket but he seems to not be able to stay calm and look at the field as its developing in front of him and once he sees something, deliver the ball with certainty. There are many times when you look at Ponder holding on to the ball, saying if he had just thrown it when he initially thought to he would be fine. He just seems to second guess himself which ends up getting him hit and the downward spiral continues. I don't think the line did him any favors but his indecisiveness and lack of comfort in the pocket add to these shortcomings where Teddy demonstrated last game, the importance of getting the ball out quickly and making those decisions in a timely fashion. With the speed of the game those windows open and close so quickly there really isn't time to think too much about it.

[Purple Domination]

I remember when Teddy came out of college, people often cited his stats against the blitz, and how they were the best of any college football QB. After watching him play, I totally understand why. He is calm and gets the ball out quick. If the pocket is crumbling he will move around if necessary to avoid a sack, but he will also stand tall amidst a crumbling pocket if he knows he can get the ball out soon enough.

To piggy back off of J Kapp's comments, Ponder does the exact opposite. There might not even be significant pressure and he will move around like crazy. I think this is part of the reason our O Line looked so pathetic last night. It's hard to protect a guy when he is all over the map. I think Zimmer made a comment like this in his press conference too. How can you block when your QB isn't where he is supposed to be?

[Mothman]

I remember when Teddy came out of college, people often cited his stats against the blitz, and how they were the best of any college football QB. After watching him play, I totally understand why. He is calm and gets the ball out quick. If the pocket is crumbling he will move around if necessary to avoid a sack, but he will also stand tall amidst a crumbling pocket if he knows he can get the ball out soon enough.

To piggy back off of J Kapp's comments, Ponder does the exact opposite. There might not even be significant pressure and he will move around like crazy. I think this is part of the reason our O Line looked so pathetic last night. It's hard to protect a guy when he is all over the map. I think Zimmer made a comment like this in his press conference too. How can you block when your QB isn't where he is supposed to be?

You can't but as Phil Simms pointed out during the broadcast, Ponder was hanging tough in the pocket early. He quickly started losing his composure as the hits and mistakes added up. I also think he starts trying way too hard to make something happen and that just leads to more trouble.

Bridgewater appears to have a much better head and temperament for the position, although I'll be interested in seeing if he can keep getting the ball out so quickly. That was clearly the game plan against Atlanta and the Falcons defended it poorly. The Packers came out last night looking to take away the quick stuff, undoubtedly knowing that's the best way to attack Ponder but also, I imagine, realizing the Vikes would probably try to repeat the success they had on Sunday. It worked like a charm.

[Cliff]

You can't but as Phil Simms pointed out during the broadcast, Ponder was hanging tough in the pocket early. He quickly started losing his composure as the hits and mistakes added up. I also think he starts trying way too hard to make something happen and that just leads to more trouble.

Bridgewater appears to have a much better head and temperament for the position, although I'll be interested in seeing if he can keep getting the ball out so quickly. That was clearly the game plan against Atlanta and the Falcons defended it poorly. The Packers came out last night looking to take away the quick stuff, undoubtedly knowing that's the best way to attack Ponder but also, I imagine, realizing the Vikes would probably try to repeat the success they had on Sunday. It worked like a charm.

Ponder's timing is also a problem. It's just something he's never seemed to get quite right consistently. He doesn't pull the trigger early enough, I think because he's worried about mistakes ... and ironically it leads to more mistakes (and it doesn't help the offensive line either!)

Take that pass Bridgewater threw to Jennings last week that was on it's way before Jennings even made his break on the post. I can't picture Ponder ever making that decision quickly enough and having the ball placed properly.

[MikethePurple]

Ponder's timing is also a problem. It's just something he's never seemed to get quite right consistently. He doesn't pull the trigger early enough, I think because he's worried about mistakes ... and ironically it leads to more mistakes (and it doesn't help the offensive line either!)

Take that pass Bridgewater threw to Jennings last week that was on it's way before Jennings even made his break on the post. I can't picture Ponder ever making that decision quickly enough and having the ball placed properly.

That was exactly the example I had in my head when I was talking about Bridgewater's decisiveness vs. Ponder's hesitancy.

[Mothman]

Ponder's timing is also a problem. It's just something he's never seemed to get quite right consistently. He doesn't pull the trigger early enough, I think because he's worried about mistakes ... and ironically it leads to more mistakes (and it doesn't help the offensive line either!)

Take that pass Bridgewater threw to Jennings last week that was on it's way before Jennings even made his break on the post. I can't picture Ponder ever making that decision quickly enough and having the ball placed properly.

Agreed. He doesn't seem to trust himself and on those rare occasions when he seems to do it, he looks much, much better. It hasn't happened often.

Well, hopefully, that was his last appearance for the Vikings. If so, it's a shame it went down that way.