No More Ponder!!!!

[720pete]

What's clear is the differences between the two quarterbacks.

Bridgewater steps up to the line and reads the defense and before the ball has been snapped he knows who his preferred receiver is and where he will be on the field. If the preferred receiver isn't open, Teddy will throw the receiver open by putting the ball ahead of the receiver running the route.

When Ponder steps up to the line he does not read the defense and does not know where the ball is going until the ball is snapped and the play is in motion. He then stares down his receiver and waits for the receiver to get open before attempting a pass, at which point, in the NFL, is already too late as the pocket has collapsed or the defensive back has regained coverage.

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[purplehaze]

Apparently you didn't see all those quick short passes that Ponder missed on badly early in the game. Or all those deep balls he missed on badly, even with a clean pocket. And I hate to break it to you, but the average pass in this league is released in 2.5 to 3 seconds from the snap. I've clocked some of Ponders games, and he's much slower at getting rid of the ball the most QB's. And because of that, it makes the o-line look worse than it is. Remember the Steelers game last year? Strange how the o-line looked immediately better in that 1 game when Cassel started, and it's becaues he was getting rid of the ball in a timely manner. Last week was the same, the o-line looked better with Teddy because Teddy can make a decision and get rid of the ball quickly. Not to mention he can buy additional time with his elusiveness.

Good Post reignman.

[VikingHoard]

Apparently you didn't see all those quick short passes that Ponder missed on badly early in the game. Or all those deep balls he missed on badly, even with a clean pocket. And I hate to break it to you, but the average pass in this league is released in 2.5 to 3 seconds from the snap. I've clocked some of Ponders games, and he's much slower at getting rid of the ball the most QB's. And because of that, it makes the o-line look worse than it is. Remember the Steelers game last year? Strange how the o-line looked immediately better in that 1 game when Cassel started, and it's becaues he was getting rid of the ball in a timely manner. Last week was the same, the o-line looked better with Teddy because Teddy can make a decision and get rid of the ball quickly. Not to mention he can buy additional time with his elusiveness.

You can't judge him based on just one game.

[purplehaze]

You can't judge him based on just one game.

All we have is one game. 40-28 win. There has only been only 4 games over the past 4 years where a Vikes Qb has passed for over 300 yards. And Teddy has one of them (25%) and he has only played one game. Looks kinda promising.


Edit: What 540 yards of offense? I don't care how bad dirty birds are on defense we have played plenty of bad defenses over the years and not had 540 yards of offense.

[VikingHoard]

Before this gets out of hand I'm going to just quote my first post in this thread. All I ask is that when you read it again you ask yourself... "Does this sound like someone who is really defending Ponder or might he be using somewhat subtle humor to rip on the guy?"

Comparing Teddy behind a bad o-line to Ponder behind a bad o-line is unfair. Scrambling is one of Teddy's greatest strengths, so naturally he will do better in such situations. Ponder is the type of quarterback who does well behind a great line, (one which can give him at least 15 seconds of protection each down), when his 1st look receiver is open for 10 of those seconds and less than 20 yards away. If Ponder had gotten that all game I'd bet his performance would have been comparable to Teddy's play last Sunday. Also, although we haven't seen Bridgewater do it yet, I'd bet Ponder is better at the post-terrible performance interviews. His "Obviously things didn't get executed as we'd hoped" and "our problems are correctable and we will correct them for next week" still has me believing in this guy! But Teddy? Well, I suppose we'll have to wait for him to have a terrible performance he gives an interview after to see.

[Purple Reign]

Should have just forfeited and flown home.

Why did we keep him? Could have signed anyone for a lot less and got just as much.

Oh yeah, SPIELMAN.

Just pointing out a fact here - yes, we could have cut Ponder and signed someone else, but it wouldn't have been for less money. We still would had to pay Ponder's salary this year since he was under contract for this year plus paying for who ever they would have brought in.

[saint33]

I think fiesta brings up a point that I really would like to emphasize, whether it's what he was specifically trying to say or not. According to him, the line's play was horrible last week, as it was today. And yet we put up 500+ yards of offense, had 0 sacks given up, no turnovers and scored 41 points last week as apposed to the abysmal outing we had on offense today. So what's the difference between last week and this week? Obviously, the play at QB.

Now I don't want this misconstrued as me saying "only QB play matters". That's not my point here. But when you go from one extreme to the next (great play at QB to abysmal play), it plays a big role in the vast difference in outcomes. I'm not trying to give anyone a pass here, but the simple fact is that no matter how well you block, you can't make up for the inefficiency at QB that we had today. Teddy got the ball out quickly, excelled at avoiding the rush, and hit open targets on time. Ponder did none of those things; he held the ball too long, he did not move well in the pocket, rarely made proper reads, and when he did they were not on time or were just horribly inaccurate passes.

The line play has to get better, I think we can all see that. The defense needs to improve as well. I have no idea if we would have been able to win this game if Teddy was starting at QB. But I have no doubt in my mind that the offense would have been more efficient and the game would have been a lot closer. I never like to chock up a loss to one player, because the team as a whole did not step up. But it's hard to ignore the fact that we were extremely handicapped today by the play of our QB.

On a positive note, it's also reason not to push a panic button at this point, as we will be seeing Teddy back in the lineup next week.

[maembe]

I think fiesta brings up a point that I really would like to emphasize, whether it's what he was specifically trying to say or not. According to him, the line's play was horrible last week, as it was today. And yet we put up 500+ yards of offense, had 0 sacks given up, no turnovers and scored 41 points last week as apposed to the abysmal outing we had on offense today. So what's the difference between last week and this week? Obviously, the play at QB.

Our offensive line played their best game of the year last week and their worst this week and it wasn't even close. They dominated last week and got dominated this week. It wasn't even just Kalil this time. Even Sully and Loadholt were getting killed out there.

[Dirtyswabby]

I said it well before the game that the team would be deflated playing with Ponder, and I think that was correct. Yes they are professionals, but they are human, the team was energized and ready to punch someone in the mouth after atlanta, the switch to ponder changed that. Having played football myself I can tell you it does hurt the team when someone you feel isn't as good as the other has to come in. I think this game was less about the lack of talent and more about team moral.

Teddy has shown in two games he is the right guy for the job, the team fights with him and for him. The O line knows he is a Rookie so they will try harder to block to protect him.

[fiestavike]

I think fiesta brings up a point that I really would like to emphasize, whether it's what he was specifically trying to say or not. According to him, the line's play was horrible last week, as it was today. And yet we put up 500+ yards of offense, had 0 sacks given up, no turnovers and scored 41 points last week as apposed to the abysmal outing we had on offense today. So what's the difference between last week and this week? Obviously, the play at QB.

Now I don't want this misconstrued as me saying "only QB play matters". That's not my point here. But when you go from one extreme to the next (great play at QB to abysmal play), it plays a big role in the vast difference in outcomes. I'm not trying to give anyone a pass here, but the simple fact is that no matter how well you block, you can't make up for the inefficiency at QB that we had today. Teddy got the ball out quickly, excelled at avoiding the rush, and hit open targets on time. Ponder did none of those things; he held the ball too long, he did not move well in the pocket, rarely made proper reads, and when he did they were not on time or were just horribly inaccurate passes.

The line play has to get better, I think we can all see that. The defense needs to improve as well. I have no idea if we would have been able to win this game if Teddy was starting at QB. But I have no doubt in my mind that the offense would have been more efficient and the game would have been a lot closer. I never like to chock up a loss to one player, because the team as a whole did not step up. But it's hard to ignore the fact that we were extremely handicapped today by the play of our QB.

On a positive note, it's also reason not to push a panic button at this point, as we will be seeing Teddy back in the lineup next week.

Saint, I agree that the QB made a huge difference, as well as the scheme and the opponent. A lot of things went right against ATL. Not much went right against GB.

[halfgiz]

[/quote]

I still stand by what I wrote. If Ponder had been given 15 seconds of protection time with his 1st read open for 10 of those seconds and within 20 yards of Ponder on every play, he would have looked just as good today as Bridgewater did on Sunday.[/quote]


I disagree Ponder wasn't real accurate with his throws. How many times did he over throw a receiver or throw behind them? His QB passer rating was 26.917 midway through the 4th quarter.....how good is that?
The defense got us in the hole in the beginning and then the offense pretty much 3 and out the whole first half.
Then add the picks & fumble = not good
Got a long week to try and get on track & get people rested & healed up.
Detroit is going to be tough!! They are not the usual Detroit team .

Edit: was quoting VikingHoard

[Mothman]

PurpleHaze: I merged your "Checkdown Charlie" thread with this one last night because I didn't think we needed multiple threads about Ponder's shortcomings. One should be sufficient to make whatever points need to be made.

Everyone: I realize there's a need for people to vent so please, vent away but do so without the "Apologists" talk, without skirting the word filter just so you can swear, without name-calling, etc.

I know people were fired up and angry last night so I'm not issuing any warnings based on the behavior in this thread so far but please review the rules (link below), especially the Personal Attacks and Offensive Language/Material section, and post within that framework. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but let's have a discussion, not a free-for-all.

http://www.vikingsmessageboard.com/view ... =1&t=20204

[dead_poet]

Zulgad: Vikings owe it to everyone, including Ponder, to jettison QB

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Zulg ... n_QB100314

[BGM]

I don't see anyone defending Ponder. Not one. What I see is people trying to deal with a frustrating loss by evaluating the team effort, which was abysmal all around. In fact, is there any facet f the game that anyone would gove a passing grade? Game planning? OL? DL? LBs? DBs? WRs? Special Teams, maybe? Clock Management? Ponder was truly horrible last night, but there was plenty of frustration to vent at the entire team. Besides, I have a problem kicking a guy when he is obviously at the very bottom. Of course, I wouldn't mind getting paid as much as he is to be at the bottom.

[fiestavike]

Zulgad: Vikings owe it to everyone, including Ponder, to jettison QB

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Zulg ... n_QB100314

The fact that the Vikings forced Ponder to be that guy only served to embarrass a quarterback who all of us already knew was a first-round bust and who deserves to either try to play for another team or get on with his life.

I agree with that. I was surprised Ponder was on the roster opening day as it seemed like a very difficult position to put him in. I think he's a good guy who lacks the make up to be successful as an NFL QB. I think his odds of having a successful career as a backup would have been bolstered by being released and picked up by another team in the offseason to serve as their #2 or #3 qb. At this point, I have to believe that this is his last year in the NFL, and the Vikings have contributed to that. It would have been better to give everyone a fresh start, and if they could have secured a 6th or 7th round pick in return all the better.