Preseason game #2: Vikings - Cardinals game thread 8/16

[Webbfann]

You can also look at this way: The offense was already pretty good last year, and the defense was horrendous. All the offense needed was the Norv Nudge, but it's going to take a lot more than a nudge to turn around our defense. Fortunately we've got the guy who should be able to do it, though it is obviously going to take more than 2 games. Some of those marches down the field were simply unaccpetable...and I'm sure he knows it.

[S197]

What are the chances of Rodney Smith making the team. Thielen had a horrible drop on that perfect TD pass from Teddy and Rodney Smith was not at all in the same league as the guys he was matched up against. Maybe we keep 6 wrs?

I think Smith's only chance is if they keep 6. Thielen had a bad drop but he's shown in camp and games to have very good hands. But I think what really separates him is his ability to play special teams, which is really where the bubble guys make the squad. Not only does he look pretty good returning punts but he can also get down field and tackle.

[S197]

As far as I understand it, if a backward pass hits the ground, it becomes a fumble. At the very least, a huge loophole in the rule was exposed tonight.

Chip Kelley has already merged it into his playbook.

[Texas Vike]

Chip Kelley has already merged it into his playbook.

So did they get the right call on that odd fumble-rooskie play on AZ's last TD? That seemed crazy to me; classic way for a Vikings game to go. Glad to see Teddy get that last drive though. You can actually roll the ball forward to another player to pick up and advance?

[PacificNorseWest]

It wasn't a pass though. The ball was loose on the ground and the lineman slapped it out of the pile to his teammate. I thought it was smart play, to be honest.

[S197]

So did they get the right call on that odd fumble-rooskie play on AZ's last TD? That seemed crazy to me; classic way for a Vikings game to go. Glad to see Teddy get that last drive though. You can actually roll the ball forward to another player to pick up and advance?

I don't really know the rulebook well enough to say for certain but it sounds like its legal. Watching the replay it looks like the lineman throws the ball laterally or even slightly behind but because it's an oblong ball (and also the field is usually slanted for drainage) it does a weird curveball effect and starts to roll forward. I think it was just freakish bad luck for the Vikings, luckily it was preseason and in the end it allowed BW to get back on the field for a GW drive.

[Raptorman]

I don't really know the rulebook well enough to say for certain but it sounds like its legal. Watching the replay it looks like the lineman throws the ball laterally or even slightly behind but because it's an oblong ball (and also the field is usually slanted for drainage) it does a weird curveball effect and starts to roll forward. I think it was just freakish bad luck for the Vikings, luckily it was preseason and in the end it allowed BW to get back on the field for a GW drive.

A hiked ball not caught by the QB is considered an incomplete backwards pass. It is a live ball. While on the ground the rules are apparently the same as a fumble. The reason the ref gave the play was allowed was that he didn't believe the player "intentionally" batted the ball forward. I of course thought they were not suppose to take intent into account. Once that ball started forward it should have been called dead no matter who picked it up. I do think it will be looked at for the future. If this had happened the last game of the season with playoff implications I know would be. We shall see if the NFL does or say's anything.

[Funkytown]

Whens the last time you said that? Been a while for all of us, even in preseason. Almost forgot how to say game winning drive

[Purple Reign]

A hiked ball not caught by the QB is considered an incomplete backwards pass. It is a live ball. While on the ground the rules are apparently the same as a fumble. The reason the ref gave the play was allowed was that he didn't believe the player "intentionally" batted the ball forward. I of course thought they were not suppose to take intent into account. Once that ball started forward it should have been called dead no matter who picked it up. I do think it will be looked at for the future. If this had happened the last game of the season with playoff implications I know would be. We shall see if the NFL does or say's anything.

The reason the ref allowed the play to stand is because the ball wasn't batted forward. I don't think there is any question that the player 'intentionally' batted the ball, but since it didn't go forward then it was legal (the rule states a player can't intentionally bat a ball toward the opponent's goal line). For those who will argue that it did go forward, that happened after the ball was batted laterally (or slightly backward) and started rolling it then took a turn and started rolling forward. Since the initial bat was lateral/backward, rolling forward after hitting the ground is insignificant.

For those claiming it was a fumble an couldn't be advanced, you've got a valid point. If you look at the official scoring for the play, they call it a recovered fumble for a touchdown. So if they call it a fumble, the only person that can advance a fumble on 4th down is the person who fumbled the ball, which would have been the qb since they charged him with the fumble. There are obviously some holes in the rules for this situation that they need to clarify.

[Webbfann]

Whens the last time you said that? Been a while for all of us, even in preseason. Almost forgot how to say game winning drive

Poor Matt Cassel, you might as well change your name to Christian Ponder now... How quickly they have forgotten your 4th quarter comeback to tie the bears and your game winning drive in OT. I can forgive them for forgetting your second game winning drive in the very forgettable Lions game.

[PurpleKoolaid]

I like Theilan and hope he makes the team, doing things on ST as well. Kyle had a TD drop almost as bad. I have wanted Smith on the team over Wright ever since I saw Smith. But he never makes it. Must be something us fans aernt seeing.

Teddy looks like the opposite of Ponder. Pressure all around him and he side steps it, and just hangs in there and makes a pass. Sometimes a wonderful pass. Makes me so happy I don't care if they do only win 6-8 games.

Im serious when I say, I think, based on 2 meaning preseason game , we have found our QB for the next decade at least. The Barrs, Kalils, Floyds had better realize this and pick up the pace.

[saint33]

If we only keep 5 WRs, I'd rather see Thielen and Smith make it over Jerome Simpson tbh.

[Just Me]

Poor Matt Cassel, you might as well change your name to Christian Ponder now... How quickly they have forgotten your 4th quarter comeback to tie the bears and your game winning drive in OT. I can forgive them for forgetting your second game winning drive in the very forgettable Lions game.

I don't think anyone has forgotten that. I think the general consensus is that Cassel should start. But...Bridgewater (in just his second NFL game) rose to the challenge of a tight game that required him to deliver a solid performance at a crucial time. It's not that Bridgewater should be the starter now, its that he will eventually be our starter, for better or worse, and Saturday's game was an example of the "better." Does it guarantee he will be good? No. But neither would it guarantee he would be good if he were picked off on his drive for the score, and him scoring gives me a lot more optimism for the future.

[Reignman]

Thanks for the rules clarification on the fumble. As per the batted pass, I found this at nfl.com. http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/useofhands

A player may not bat or punch:

(a) A loose ball (in field of play) toward his opponent’s goal line or in any direction in either end zone.

Looks like the rule needs to be cleaned up a bit. The lineman appears to bat the ball laterally but with a little bit of english, so the ball actually rolled toward his opponent's end zone before Bauman scooped it up.



Clearly the ball is rolling forward.

The 2nd part of the play that I have a problem with, is Lindley clearly had possession when he picked up the loose ball, ever so briefly with both hands, and flipped it backward. I'm unable to find a replay of an angle that shows the subtle flip, but I saw it from the camera angle behind the play during the game.

But I'll try not to complain too much lol, it was a meaningless game and the ref actually did us a favor by allowing that play to stand because it led to some valuable 2 minute drill experience for Teddy. If the TD wasn't allowed to stand then Teddy only gains some experience taking knee. The glass is half full

[Webbfann]

I don't think anyone has forgotten that. I think the general consensus is that Cassel should start. But...Bridgewater (in just his second NFL game) rose to the challenge of a tight game that required him to deliver a solid performance at a crucial time. It's not that Bridgewater should be the starter now, its that he will eventually be our starter, for better or worse, and Saturday's game was an example of the "better." Does it guarantee he will be good? No. But neither would it guarantee he would be good if he were picked off on his drive for the score, and him scoring gives me a lot more optimism for the future.

Well, they did forget it, because the exact words were "almost forgot how to say game winning drive" and it was in our last regular season game just 2 games ago! People think Cassel should start, but people in the stands will be chanting for the backup QB as soon as he throws an interception or has one bad game. Actually they are chanting for the backup now, when Cassel has been nearly flawless. Poor Massel. People will be chanting for Teddy if he does anything short of walk on water.

Go back and read what people said about Ponder's first game and first starts. How quickly people forget, indeed. It all looked sooo promising. They spoke of his smart play for a rookie, his poise in the pocket under pressure (I'm not joking!!), not getting happy feet (I'm not joking!), and his comeback ability (I'm not joking!). I hope Teddy is the future too and I believe he will be but he has played less than one preseason game against backups so far. It is way too soon to forget these other things.