Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer

[Demi]

Statistical case against Kluwe doesn’t stack up
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -stack-up/

But it is at least partially about football, and the part about football is the weakest portion of the memo released by the Vikings on Friday night. That portion is headlined, “Kluwe’s 2012 Statistics vs. Career Statistics,” and it attempts to make a case using statistics that Kluwe was declining as a punter. The attempt fails. Badly.

The statistical case against Kluwe begins like this: “Kluwe’s 12 fair catches in 2012 were the third fewest of his career, nearly 3 fair catches below his pre-2012 season average of 14.7. Also, Kluwe’s longest punt of 2012 – 59 yards – was 4 yards shorter than what he averaged during his first seven seasons in the NFL.”

Those are silly criteria by which to judge a punter. A decline in fair catches could easily be the result of a strategy to kick out of bounds, and judging a punter by his longest punt is downright foolish. Anyone who has even a vague understanding of football strategy understands that a punter’s job isn’t just to kick the ball as far as he can. Kluwe had several punts that could have been longer than 59 yards, except that Kluwe dropped them inside the 20-yard line instead of kicking them into the end zone. For instance, in the same game in which Kluwe booted that 59-yarder (Week One against Jacksonville), he also had a 53-yard punt to the Jaguars’ 12-yard line. If Kluwe had kicked that ball 12 yards farther, it would have been a 65-yard punt, his longest in five years. But it also would have been a worse punt because it would have been a touchback, rather than being dropped inside the 20.

Only a laughable franchise from flyover country would even have to put up with this garbage. My goodness.

Should have figured this crap out a long time ago. Instead we're drudging through the feces. Weeee

[Demi]

Priefer initially denied making homophobic remarks
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... c-remarks/

After long snapper Cullen Loeffler told investigators that he recalled Priefer making that remark on the practice field at the team’s facility, Priefer told investigators, “If [Loeffler] remembers me saying something on the practice field, I am not going to disagree with it.” But Priefer insisted the comment was a “joke between three people, three men.”

Setting aside for now the search for a punchline in the sentiment that all gay men should be exiled to an island that is then detonated with a thermonuclear device, the Vikings have opted to give Priefer a pass on potential wrongdoing independent of the things he may have said in Kluwe’s presence. Some employers regard dishonesty in the context of an official investigation as grounds for immediate termination, and the facts as summarized in the memo support a finding that Priefer initially failed to tell the truth when under the impression that, as to the “nuke” remark, it was his word against Kluwe’s.

Given that the arguable falsehood was told while Priefer’s ongoing employment was in jeopardy following the firing of head coach Leslie Frazier and the uncertainty regarding his successor, it’s fair to wonder whether Priefer would have been retained by Mike Zimmer if Priefer had told the truth in January, instead of in May.

eeeeee

[Funkytown]

Should have just fired Priefer and let this all go away...but nope, we're the Vikings. Let's redo the coaching staff and keep the guy involved in the lawsuit/investigation, who...funny, gets suspended.

Yep. Good ol' Vikes! So glad we got rid of the distractions. Oh, wait...

[Demi]

Wow! After all this drama and whining by this hypocrite, how can anyone even like Kluwe anymore. He is a joke.

Kluwe and the Vikings are both a joke. And the fans are the ones that have to keep putting up with this crap.
"Culture of accountability".

[Reignman]

I haven't been keeping up with any of this Kluwe crap and thank goodness. I'm not even sure what he's having a tantrum about this time. Honestly I hope the Vikes don't break and give in on his demands. And I am super freaking glad that he will never punt again in the NFL.

This time he's having a tantrum about catching on video, a Vikings water boy molesting a child, with a dead puppy. But since it's Kluwe reporting the crime I guess we shouldn't care eh? Don't worry, some will justify it all by saying Kluwe is only reporting the crime for attention. And accuse him of being a child advocate with an agenda. I mean he wasn't molested as a child, so why does he care so much? Others will claim we don't know the context of the molestation. The puppy could be a stray with a soft coat for all we know, and that wouldn't be so bad. And in some states, consenting age is 16, so lets find out the boys age before we jump to conclusions. Maybe they were just horsing around and the kid enjoyed it. Or maybe the child needed an emergency life saving enema and the puppy was the only thing the water boy had. We don't know, we weren't there. I mean sure, the water boy denied it all at first, until Kluwe came forward with the video. But who's the real victim here? And can we charge Kluwe with possessing child pornography? I think it's pretty clear, this peeping-Tom scumbag Chris Kluwe was no longer fit to be an NFL punter so he invaded the water boys privacy, just in case the Vikings fired him. So you're right, lets hope the Vikings don't break on this one because you can never look judgmental when you chime in with an opinion on a serious topic you haven't been following.

[Funkytown]

This time he's having a tantrum about catching on video, a Vikings water boy molesting a child, with a dead puppy. But since it's Kluwe reporting the crime I guess we shouldn't care eh? Don't worry, some will justify it all by saying Kluwe is only reporting the crime for attention. And accuse him of being a child advocate with an agenda. I mean he wasn't molested as a child, so why does he care so much? Others will claim we don't know the context of the molestation. The puppy could be a stray with a soft coat for all we know, and that wouldn't be so bad. And in some states, consenting age is 16, so lets find out the boys age before we jump to conclusions. Maybe they were just horsing around and the kid enjoyed it. Or maybe the child needed an emergency life saving enema and the puppy was the only thing the water boy had. We don't know, we weren't there. I mean sure, the water boy denied it all at first, until Kluwe came forward with the video. But who's the real victim here? And can we charge Kluwe with possessing child pornography? I think it's pretty clear, this peeping-Tom scumbag Chris Kluwe was no longer fit to be an NFL punter so he invaded the water boys privacy, just in case the Vikings fired him. So you're right, lets hope the Vikings don't break on this one because you can never look judgmental when you chime in with an opinion on a serious topic you haven't been following.

Pure entertainment. That's what you are.

[Purple bruise]

Kluwe and the Vikings are both a joke. And the fans are the ones that have to keep putting up with this crap.
"Culture of accountability".

Wow the Vikings are a joke huh The fans keep putting up with this crap. What other crap are you talking about? So what is your solution to this horrible problem

[Just Me]

Statistical case against Kluwe doesn’t stack up
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -stack-up/

I agree with the first reason given (why the length of his punts could have declined) but the second reason is silly: "Kluwe had several punts that could have been longer than 59 yards, except that Kluwe dropped them inside the 20-yard line instead of kicking them into the end zone? By that logic, does Ponder have one of the best long passing averages in the NFL since some of his passes could have easily went 70 yards, but he was throwing them from the twenty into the end-zone and he needed to keep them from going out of the end-zone? How do they know that Kluwe could have kicked those balls farther? And why, in the multiple game situations where it would have been beneficial to do so, weren't the balls kicked farther then?

I'm not saying that Kluwe was (or was not) let go for football reasons. I'm saying the second 'reason' given for the belief that Kluwe's punting may not have been in decline is a little weak.

[Mothman]

I agree with the first reason given (why the length of his punts could have declined) but the second reason is silly: "Kluwe had several punts that could have been longer than 59 yards, except that Kluwe dropped them inside the 20-yard line instead of kicking them into the end zone? By that logic, does Ponder have one of the best long passing averages in the NFL since some of his passes could have easily went 70 yards, but he was throwing them from the twenty into the end-zone and he needed to keep them from going out of the end-zone? How do they know that Kluwe could have kicked those balls farther? And why, in the multiple game situations where it would have been beneficial to do so, weren't the balls kicked farther then?

I'm not saying that Kluwe was (or was not) let go for football reasons. I'm saying the second 'reason' given for the belief that Kluwe's punting may not have been in decline is a little weak.

That PFT piece is weak. I recommend that anybody interested in this subject read the 29 page memo/report released by the Vikings. It's statistical case about Kluwe's punting in 2012 is much stronger and more extensive than PFT writer Michael David Smith implies.

[Mothman]

And Priefer is suspended three games because of "nothing"?
Now it's "frustration", not long ago I swear it was Kluwe blowing things out of proportion.
So there's nothing to see here...but someone gets suspended for this "nothing"?

Should have just fired Priefer and let this all go away...but nope, we're the Vikings. Let's redo the coaching staff and keep the guy involved in the lawsuit/investigation, who...funny, gets suspended.

Only a laughable franchise from flyover country would even have to put up with this garbage. My goodness.

Should have figured this crap out a long time ago. Instead we're drudging through the feces. Weeee

Kluwe and the Vikings are both a joke. And the fans are the ones that have to keep putting up with this crap.
"Culture of accountability".

Misrepresent, deride and provoke, just three of today's most popular trolling techniques. Learn them all in the new Trolling 101 course now being offered online. Start your free trial today!

Don't forget lesson #4: Keep it short. Hit and run!

[Just Me]

Others will claim we don't know the context of the molestation.

A 70 year old man wraps his arms around a 10 year old girl holding her against his body for about 5 seconds (appearing to some like his pressing his body against her tightly) after inviting her into his car for some candy. Right or wrong? I mean, if full context is not important, please give me a an evaluative judgment on this situation. Molestation or not?

[Funkytown]

Misrepresent, deride and provoke, just three of today's most popular trolling techniques. Learn them all in the Trolling 101 course now being offered online. Start your free trial today!

Don't forget lesson #4: Keep it short. Hit and run!

Yeesh. Well, I must be a troll, too. I didn't think Demi was that far off... This could have been handled a lot differently, a lot better basically. Too bad it wasn't. It's going to get worse before it gets better. And, no, it's not all on Kluwe.

[Funkytown]

A 70 year old man wraps his arms around a 10 year old girl holding her against his body for about 5 seconds (appearing to some like his pressing his body against her tightly) after inviting her into his car for some candy. Right or wrong? I mean, if full context is not important, please give me a an evaluative judgment on this situation. Molestation or not?

Depends on who is reporting it.

[Mothman]

A 70 year old man wraps his arms around a 10 year old girl holding her against his body for about 5 seconds (appearing to some like his pressing his body against her tightly) after inviting her into his car for some candy. Right or wrong? I mean, if full context is not important, please give me a an evaluative judgment on this situation. Molestation or not?

That's a good way to illustrate the importance of context.

Speaking of context, according to the memorandum:

In his first of three interviews, on January 6, 2014, Priefer denied making any inappropriate statements about gay individuals or marriage equality. He categorically denied
saying, “We should round up all the gays, send them to an island, and then nuke it until it glows” during a special teams meeting. Similarly, no other members of the special teams coaching staff or the special teams players, other than Loeffler, supported Kluwe’s claim that Priefer made the above statement.3 Teammates, such as Walsh, said that it did not sound like something Priefer would have said. White confirmed that he did not hear Priefer make the comment and that he “absolutely” would have remembered it if he had. Loeffler reported, however, that he did hear Priefer make a comment about “putting all the gays on an island and nuking it” while on the practice field at Winter Park. Loeffler said that Priefer made this statement after becoming frustrated that Loeffler and Kluwe were not focused on football during practice. Loeffler commented that he did not think that Priefer was serious when he made the “nuclear” comment and that he thought Priefer was just trying to stop Kluwe and Loeffler’s joking around. Furthermore, Loeffler said that both he and Kluwe laughed off Priefer’s comment at the time. Loeffler did not corroborate Kluwe’s claims regarding any other comments Priefer allegedly made.

That differs significantly from Kluwe's version of events, in which the comment was made in a meeting, a completely different context from that described by Loeffler, whose recollection that it happened on the practice field seems reinforced by the fact that nobody else recalls hearing the comment in a meeting.

3 Every member of the special teams staff interviewed denied ever hearing any comments by Priefer about gay individuals or marriage equality. Specifically, then-Assistant Special Teams Coach Chris White and Head Strength and Conditioning Coach Tom Kanavy denied hearing Priefer use homophobic language. White said that he never heard Priefer or anyone in the Vikings organization use homophobic language and that he never heard Priefer say that Kluwe would burn in hell and that the only truth was Jesus Christ and the Bible. According to White, those alleged statements do not sound like something Priefer would say. Kanavy also said that he never heard Priefer make any derogatory comments about gay individuals. Interviewees outside of coaches and special teams players similarly denied witnessing the statements alleged by Kluwe. Executive Director of Player Development/Legal Les Pico said that he never heard Priefer make a homophobic comment. Lester Bagley, the Vikings’ Vice President of Public Affairs and Stadium Development, said he never heard Priefer say anything inappropriate or demeaning.

[Mothman]

Yeesh. Well, I must be a troll, too. I didn't think Demi was that far off... This could have been handled a lot differently, a lot better basically. Too bad it wasn't. It's going to get worse before it gets better. And, no, it's not all on Kluwe.

It's trolling because there's no attempt to contribute anything of substance to the discussion. He baited and provoked and it's a pattern of behavior he's established over years. By almost any internet definition of trolling, the shoe fits when it comes to Demi.

Regarding your comments: I don't think anyone is saying it's "all on Kluwe" although, perhaps more than anyone else involved (except Priefer), Kluwe himself could have handled this a lot better (and considering his tweets last night, he could still be handling it better).

It seems to me the team has taken a pretty good, and pretty smart, approach. It's not perfect but they reacted swiftly to the accusations, hired respected third parties to investigate and a highly qualified third party to assess and evaluate the results of that investigation. They instructed them to be objective and the team did not engage in public mudslinging or attempt to try the case in the court of public opinion. They took their time, tried to get an accurate understanding of the situation and then released an assessment (the Littler memo). They took what they obviously feel is appropriate action to reprimand Priefer and made a substantial charitable contribution they were under no obligation to make. Maybe they'll release the complete results of the investigation at some point too, which would be nice, but of those involved, it seems to me the Vikings have taken the higher, and more responsible, road.