Bridgewater starts when?

[Slick Rick]

This is supposed to be the year? According to who, you? When is a team with a new coaching staff, an unsettled QB situation and coming off a losing season ever expected to make an extended playoff run? As Eli said, there's too much change to hold the team to such high expectations and then fire the GM if they don't have a great year (and an extended playoff run would represent the Vikings best season since 2009).

Spielman's not going anywhere unless the season is a disaster and I doubt AD is either, .500 season or not. Even if Peterson demands a trade, I seriously doubt that would cost Spielman his job.

Teams don't hire a new coaching staff to continue rebuilding unless they're just entering a rebuild. I think it's much more likely that we're on our way out of rebuilding mode than we are entering rebuilding mode. Considering we were 10-6 two years ago, and minutes away from winning 10 or 11 last year, I think it's very likely that this is viewed by ownership and management as the year where the team is supposed to break through.

Change doesn't mean crap. You're making it seem like it takes 2 years to figure out a scheme. Why not 3 or 4? These are professional athletes, they've been learning schemes and changing them so often that the transition is probably pretty easy. It's not like they're switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4 where our DEs are going to have to learn how to play LB. I expect Zimmer to make it very easy for everyone to go from one 4-3 to another. I think the offense is going to have a much harder time adapting, but at the same time I think there's a good case to be made that even if they aren't in sync (and there's nothing to me that suggests they wouldn't be) they can still be more effective than our last offense because of who's calling the plays.

You're thinking like a fan, not an owner. If the Vikings actually improve their W/L record to .500 in their current situation, under a new coaching staff, it would be a stunning development if Spielman were fired.

Well I am a fan, but no I'm not thinking like one. I'm taking the fans into account, because they're real and they directly impact what an owner does. If the fans are pissed and are about to boycott games because the franchise player just left town and the Vikings are still a bottom-feeder, then what's stopping ownership from capping Spielman? Absolutely nothing. It's a business. He's lucky he didn't get fired earlier this offseason. I suspect the reason he didn't is because he has outlined his plan to the Wilf family, and they recognize that firing him would only ensure an entirely different direction.

I promise you, the brass sees this team as a contender. Very rarely does everything fall into place the way that it seems to have this offseason, and that's usually a big indicator of success. I think this is the most complete team, and the deepest roster that the Vikings have had in years (certainly better than '12), and there's no doubt that Rick sees that. He was on the hot seat 3 or 4 years ago after he went chasing after an injured 40 year old QB and paid him 20M to come back. To assume that he hasn't been pleading his case to the Wilfs every year since is ignorance, and if anything you're the one who's thinking like a fan. With all of these moves - new high end coaching staff, signing Munnerlyn, signing Joseph, re-signing Griffen, having another splashy draft - there's no reason for me to believe that this is intended as anything else but a playoff team. I see it on paper, and I see it with the actions that the FO has taken this offseason. I would be very disappointed if this team didn't make a run, and I suspect the Wilfs feel the same way. I know for a fact that AP would be pretty disappointed.

[Mothman]

Teams don't hire a new coaching staff to continue rebuilding unless they're just entering a rebuild.

They usually hire a new coaching staff because the previous staff didn't win enough games, which typically means there's a lot of work to do.

I imagine the Wilfs expect to see a successful year but I still doubt that means Spielman's job is hanging in the balance if the team finishes with a .500 record and I'm not trying to make it seem like it takes 2 years to figure out a scheme. Change usually requires adjustment: time to learn, build chemistry, etc. There are reasons it's more common for a team with a new coaching staff to have a mediocre or losing season than to immediately go on a deep playoff run. That doesn't mean it's impossible for the Vikes to reach the playoffs and advance this year. I'm actually hoping to see that happen but again, I doubt Spielman's job hinges on it. There's simply no good reason to believe that. Ownership has shown nothing but confidence in Spielman and all signs point to him being retained, not fired. As I said, I don't see them pulling the rug out from under him one year into a new coaching regime unless the season is a complete disaster and 7-9 or 8-8 wouldn't qualify as a complete disaster. I seriously doubt they're just looking at this offseason and having pie-in-the-sky dreams without also recognizing that Vegas is treating the Vikes like one of the worst teams in the conference or that teams with QB situations as unsettled as the Vikings usually don't go on deep playoff runs. They're undoubtedly aware of the bigger picture.

Maybe you're right and Spielman's future with the team depends on the Vikings winning in the postseason this year. We'll just have to see what happens. Hopefully, they will have the kind of success you'e expecting and retaining him as GM won't be an issue.

[hibbingviking]

he will start when the Vikings go 1-3.

[GoldenBear91]

he will start when the Vikings go 1-3.

I would agree.

somebody on this page used the phrase "playoff push" which made me laugh

[NextQuestion]

If he's ready to go week 1... go for it.

[King James]

he will start when the Vikings go 1-3.

I don't know. 1-3 is a little too early in my opinion to bench someone. I think if the Vikings have any intentions in starting him this season, it will be in week 1. Why throw him into the fire like that? I believe that's how we screwed up with Ponder and T-Jack. Waiting too long and putting them in a win now situation. If we are going to start a vet this season, I say let them play the entire season regardless of the record. Then next year, we start Teddy, and if we had a bad season hopefully we'd have a good spot in the draft to build another weapon around him.

[Slick Rick]

They usually hire a new coaching staff because the previous staff didn't win enough games, which typically means there's a lot of work to do.

In this case it's not the same. You're only looking at their previous season and fixating on the wins aspect. You're also completely ignoring the fact that a lot of players who are still on this roster were here when we won 10 games in 2012, as well as the fact that several last second gaffes costed us not only a second straight winning season, but in my opinion we would have won the division.

Fact is, the Vikings are now the youngest team in the division, and have placed pieces to fixed the holes that were most in need of fixing in recent years. In this particular scenario, for the reasons I've stated, I don't think that the Vikings plan to continue rebuilding under Zimmer. Rather, I think the move was to put the team over the top just as you would by being aggressive in free agency.

I imagine the Wilfs expect to see a successful year but I still doubt that means Spielman's job is hanging in the balance if the team finishes with a .500 record and I'm not trying to make it seem like it takes 2 years to figure out a scheme. Change usually requires adjustment: time to learn, build chemistry, etc. There are reasons it's more common for a team with a new coaching staff to have a mediocre or losing season than to immediately go on a deep playoff run. That doesn't mean it's impossible for the Vikes to reach the playoffs and advance this year. I'm actually hoping to see that happen but again, I doubt Spielman's job hinges on it. There's simply no good reason to believe that. Ownership has shown nothing but confidence in Spielman and all signs point to him being retained, not fired. As I said, I don't see them pulling the rug out from under him one year into a new coaching regime unless the season is a complete disaster and 7-9 or 8-8 wouldn't qualify as a complete disaster. I seriously doubt they're just looking at this offseason and having pie-in-the-sky dreams without also recognizing that Vegas is treating the Vikes like one of the worst teams in the conference or that teams with QB situations as unsettled as the Vikings usually don't go on deep playoff runs. They're undoubtedly aware of the bigger picture.

Maybe it isn't, but I can't imagine he has very many strikes left. I'm really leaning towards thinking that Peterson wants out if the Vikes aren't competitive this year, he has implied as much in his interviews and I'm not even sure if simply making the playoffs is going to appease him. Losing the face of the franchise in a trade is the exact kind of thing that can really piss a lot of fans off and force the owner's hand. Especially if they don't net several draft picks, and I'm not so sure they would with the market for RBs unless he has a monster year. Another thing to note is that players who demand trades typically net less than players who are traded under the free will of the FO.

Maybe you're right and Spielman's future with the team depends on the Vikings winning in the postseason this year. We'll just have to see what happens. Hopefully, they will have the kind of success you'e expecting and retaining him as GM won't be an issue.

I am about 100% confident that this is a playoff team. When I look at Chicago, I don't see a team that is really all that improved. They brought in Houston, Allen, and Ferguson to replace Melton, Peppers, and Wooton. Just seems like it's kind of a wash at best, and if anything the latter 3 are more proven if not just better overall players. Another thing is that Chicago's offense is about the same as it was last year, which is good don't get me wrong, but shouldn't they be trying to get better? They added some linemen that might be able to start, but they're still counting on Marshall and Jeffrey for a lot and you can never be too sure whether or not Cutler's even going to be able to stay healthy. They lost McCown to the Bucs, and will now be counting on a couple of guys who I don't think very many of us have ever heard of. If you ask me, very questionable situation from a personnel standpoint.

Detroit is the wild card. I thought they were the best team in the division after the injuries got the Green Bay, but they were constantly shooting themselves in the foot. They have a really good roster, I think better than Chicago's, and they've added 2 great weapons to compliment Megatron. For once, they won't be a one-dimensional offense, and that could be incredibly hard to stop or it could be underwhelming if the two additions don't step up, or if Stafford continues to be undisciplined. Not sure if this is a 12-13 win team, or if they're about ready to collapse.

Green Bay is going to be tough, they were decimated by injuries last year otherwise they win the division without a problem, and probably win 11 or 12 games. Peppers is not in decline, and if anything moving to a new system is going to help him a lot. They get a huge upgrade at safety with HHCD, and I can't really think of any position where they're lacking. They also now have a RB who can drive it up the middle to compliment Rodgers and Co. We will have our hands full with them, but..

I see us as being pretty close to GB in personnel, at least in theory. I don't know how everyone's going to perform, but I see our depth chart as being very rich in talent, and I can't name one position where I think we have a black hole other than maybe at whoever plays safety opposite Smith. Matt Cassel is a solid QB who I think will for sure get us to 9 or 10 wins, and probably more with what is obviously a significantly better defense.

TL;DR: It might not be readily apparent, but I think Spielman has fielded a very formidable squad while the rest of the league is looking at Chicago and Green Bay, and I think the Wilfs are probably ready for Ricky to put his money where his mouth is this year (I know I would if I were in their situation). Peterson isn't getting any younger, and he knows it. With all that said, we've gotten better in almost every aspect. We're younger, faster, stronger, our defense and offense have all had their biggest needs filled, and our coaching staff has gone from inexperienced to very experienced. All of those things just radiate positivity to me.

[Funkytown]

...as well as the fact that several last second gaffes costed us not only a second straight winning season, but in my opinion we would have won the division.

I agree, because a winning season would have won us the division by default.

[Mothman]

In this case it's not the same. You're only looking at their previous season and fixating on the wins aspect. You're also completely ignoring the fact that a lot of players who are still on this roster were here when we won 10 games in 2012, as well as the fact that several last second gaffes costed us not only a second straight winning season, but in my opinion we would have won the division.

Dig through my posting history (or just ask Mondry, who has probably seen me make the point too many times) and you'll quickly see that Im just about the last person here who is ignoring what the Vikings did in 2012 or the number of losses they had in the final minutes of last season.

Fact is, the Vikings are now the youngest team in the division, and have placed pieces to fixed the holes that were most in need of fixing in recent years. In this particular scenario, for the reasons I've stated, I don't think that the Vikings plan to continue rebuilding under Zimmer. Rather, I think the move was to put the team over the top just as you would by being aggressive in free agency.

Aggressive moves in free agency don't always solve problems and you can throw away the term "rebuilding" if you'd like. Maybe you define it differently than I do. From my point of view, a team isn't done "rebuilding" until it's built itself into a legitimate contender again and while the Vikings might have hopes of being a serious Super Bowl contender this year, they're a long way from proving that's the case and there aren't many people viewing them with those kind of expectations.

Maybe it isn't, but I can't imagine he has very many strikes left.

Perhaps not but who's counting the strikes and who's determining what constitute strikes? I imagine the Ponder pick counts , as do some losing seasons but as I said, the Wilfs have shown nothing but confidence in the man. They've leaned on his judgment more and more, as if they think doing so will solve problems, not as if they think he's one of their biggest problems and they're ready to fire him if the team doesn't win in the postseason next January.

I'm really leaning towards thinking that Peterson wants out if the Vikes aren't competitive this year, he has implied as much in his interviews and I'm not even sure if simply making the playoffs is going to appease him. Losing the face of the franchise in a trade is the exact kind of thing that can really piss a lot of fans off and force the owner's hand.

As I recall, Peterson simply answered a direct question or two regarding how he'd feel about playing elsewhere while also saying he'd like to stay and spend the rest of his career in Minnesota. You have him ready to bolt and I don't see any reason to believe that's the case but regardless of what he wants, he's under contract. If he demands his way out of town, I seriously doubt fans will force the owner's hand into firing the GM. I don't think fans have that kind of power anyway unless they stop showing up to games (and do so in substantial numbers, over time). They aren't going to stop showing up to games next offseason so even AD's departure is unlikely to get Spielman fired, especially because the former's salary would actually make the move easy to justify.

Regarding the rest of the division, I don't believe the Vikings have a clear personnel advantage over any team in the NFC North and until they prove otherwise, they probably have the worst starting QB in the division. All 4 teams tried to improve this offseason. We'll have to wait and see which teams were most successful. I don't think it's far-fetched to imagine the Vikings being competitive and having a strong season this year IF things come together for them just right but I'm not counting on that to happen and I don't think it's a stretch to imagine any team in this division having a winning season. They all have the talent to do so.

TL;DR: It might not be readily apparent, but I think Spielman has fielded a very formidable squad while the rest of the league is looking at Chicago and Green Bay, and I think the Wilfs are probably ready for Ricky to put his money where his mouth is this year (I know I would if I were in their situation). Peterson isn't getting any younger, and he knows it. With all that said, we've gotten better in almost every aspect. We're younger, faster, stronger, our defense and offense have all had their biggest needs filled, and our coaching staff has gone from inexperienced to very experienced. All of those things just radiate positivity to me.

... and yet you think Spielman, who put those pieces together, will be fired if the Vikings don't make a deep playoff run immediately. If he's assembled such a formidable squad, why should his job be in danger??! He's not going to be coaching the team or playing the games so if you believe he's done his part so admirably, why would the Wilfs fire him if the players and coaches don't win in the postseason right away? It makes no sense. You're arguing that Spielman has done a good job and then writing about how many strikes he has against him and how the Wilfs will likely fire him if the team doesn't meet expectations you've assigned.

On that contradictory note, maybe it's time to drop this. We'll see what happens and then we can revisit the discussion if you'd like.

[VikingPaul73]

I agree, because a winning season would have won us the division by default.

What if they went 7-6-3?

I wonder how that tie breaker would work!

[Funkytown]

What if they went 7-6-3?

Oh, now you're just being silly.

3 ties, though? Shoot me in the face. One was bad enough! Yuck.

[Slick Rick]

Dig through my posting history (or just ask Mondry, who has probably seen me make the point too many times) and you'll quickly see that Im just about the last person here who is ignoring what the Vikings did in 2012 or the number of losses they had in the final minutes of last season.

Right, but that only means you know exactly why this is a team where it's particularly difficult to simply look at their record from the year before and conclude that they're just a case of not winning enough games and having a lot of work to do. Of all of the losing teams last year, I think the Vikes and Giants (maybe Bucs as well) have the best chance that they're going to be playoff teams this year. I'm not really looking at what their rosters were last year or their previous records, just the guys they plugged their immediate needs with, who they replaced, who stands to get better, and what seems a like it's unlikely to happen again. I don't think Eli's going to throw 30 INTs again. I don't think us or Tampa are going to blow a lead in almost every game. I don't think we are going to allow 30 points (or even close, for that matter), and I think our offense is going to be even better.

Aggressive moves in free agency don't always solve problems and you can throw away the term "rebuilding" if you'd like. Maybe you define it differently than I do. From my point of view, a team isn't done "rebuilding" until it's built itself into a legitimate contender again and while the Vikings might have hopes of being a serious Super Bowl contender this year, they're a long way from proving that's the case and there aren't many people viewing them with those kind of expectations.

Well my expectations aren't quite that high, although I do see it as being closer to reality than some people might think. I see them as having a very high ceiling this year, and that's really the furthest I'm willing to take it.

Perhaps not but who's counting the strikes and who's determining what constitute strikes? I imagine the Ponder pick counts , as do some losing seasons but as I said, the Wilfs have shown nothing but confidence in the man. They've leaned on his judgment more and more, as if they think doing so will solve problems, not as if they think he's one of their biggest problems and they're ready to fire him if the team doesn't win in the postseason next January.

Yeah, and they probably have good reason to believe in him. Problem is, it gets old after a while.

As I recall, Peterson simply answered a direct question or two regarding how he'd feel about playing elsewhere while also saying he'd like to stay and spend the rest of his career in Minnesota. You have him ready to bolt and I don't see any reason to believe that's the case but regardless of what he wants, he's under contract. If he demands his way out of town, I seriously doubt fans will force the owner's hand into firing the GM. I don't think fans have that kind of power anyway unless they stop showing up to games (and do so in substantial numbers, over time). They aren't going to stop showing up to games next offseason so even AD's departure is unlikely to get Spielman fired, especially because the former's salary would actually make the move easy to justify.

1. A lot of guys say they'd like to spend the rest of their careers where they are. He also seemed very hesitant, and obviously implied that he'd like to see a better direction for the team.

2. His attitude all last year when answering those types of questions was very "wait and see", not exactly "come on! get out of here!" like you'd hope from someone who has carried your offense for all but one year that he's been here. Think about it, would you want to stick around when you're a 30+ running back on a team that for all you know is headed no where? I think results speak more than anything to Peterson, so I think being competitive right now is very important to him. I honestly felt like I could see it as soon as he said "we'll see" when they hired Zimmer. Very skeptical response.

3. This isn't the standard player being let go, he's our franchise QB, he's what allows the team to not have to have a Peyton Manning type of guy. He's also the guy who if we did land someone like Peyton Manning, we'd be set for about another 4 or 5 years in terms of contending. Every fan knows how valuable Peterson is. It would be very hostile for the FO and ownership to say the least if Peterson was headed out of town.

Regarding the rest of the division, I don't believe the Vikings have a clear personnel advantage over any team in the NFC North and until they prove otherwise, they probably have the worst starting QB in the division. All 4 teams tried to improve this offseason. We'll have to wait and see which teams were most successful. I don't think it's far-fetched to imagine the Vikings being competitive and having a strong season this year IF things come together for them just right but I'm not counting on that to happen and I don't think it's a stretch to imagine any team in this division having a winning season. They all have the talent to do so.

You don't have to see us as having an edge over anyone. I'm simply making the case that it isn't too far out of the question. I think Green Bay is still clearly the favorite, and who knows maybe everything will work out perfectly for Chicago, but we have without question made the most significant improvement of the 4 teams. Like you say, we will have to see if it translates.

[Slick Rick]

I agree, because a winning season would have won us the division by default.

Yes, I suppose it would have.

[mmvikes]

Right, but that only means you know exactly why this is a team where it's particularly difficult to simply look at their record from the year before and conclude that they're just a case of not winning enough games and having a lot of work to do. Of all of the losing teams last year, I think the Vikes and Giants (maybe Bucs as well) have the best chance that they're going to be playoff teams this year. I'm not really looking at what their rosters were last year or their previous records, just the guys they plugged their immediate needs with, who they replaced, who stands to get better, and what seems a like it's unlikely to happen again. I don't think Eli's going to throw 30 INTs again. I don't think us or Tampa are going to blow a lead in almost every game. I don't think we are going to allow 30 points (or even close, for that matter), and I think our offense is going to be even better.
Well my expectations aren't quite that high, although I do see it as being closer to reality than some people might think. I see them as having a very high ceiling this year, and that's really the furthest I'm willing to take it.
Yeah, and they probably have good reason to believe in him. Problem is, it gets old after a while.
1. A lot of guys say they'd like to spend the rest of their careers where they are. He also seemed very hesitant, and obviously implied that he'd like to see a better direction for the team.

2. His attitude all last year when answering those types of questions was very "wait and see", not exactly "come on! get out of here!" like you'd hope from someone who has carried your offense for all but one year that he's been here. Think about it, would you want to stick around when you're a 30+ running back on a team that for all you know is headed no where? I think results speak more than anything to Peterson, so I think being competitive right now is very important to him. I honestly felt like I could see it as soon as he said "we'll see" when they hired Zimmer. Very skeptical response.

3. This isn't the standard player being let go, he's our franchise QB, he's what allows the team to not have to have a Peyton Manning type of guy. He's also the guy who if we did land someone like Peyton Manning, we'd be set for about another 4 or 5 years in terms of contending. Every fan knows how valuable Peterson is. It would be very hostile for the FO and ownership to say the least if Peterson was headed out of town.
You don't have to see us as having an edge over anyone. I'm simply making the case that it isn't too far out of the question. I think Green Bay is still clearly the favorite, and who knows maybe everything will work out perfectly for Chicago, but we have without question made the most significant improvement of the 4 teams. Like you say, we will have to see if it translates.

And all this means Bridgewater starts when?????

[Slick Rick]

And all this means Bridgewater starts when?????

Well you'd have to actually read the posts leading up to this to understand the context, but you're right. It's derailing the thread.

I'm kind of on the fence between Cassel and Bridgewater as far as who I think has the best chance of starting right now. I think the FO intends to have him sit though, otherwise I highly doubt they would have paid so much to bring back Matt Cassel. I think Norv can get the most out of Cassel for a year, and if he were to lead the Vikes into the playoffs and wins a game or two he's going to be the favorite to start heading into training camp. Bridgewater only stands to be more motivated by this, and I think as an executive you have to be looking after the big picture like that.

Of course, if Norv says Teddy's the real deal and can start right away I'm not sure it'd be smart to play Cassel.