Teddy Bridgewater

[Mothman]

Valid excuses are still excuses.

Yes, but if they're valid, there's no reason to scoff at them.

It doesn't mean that the poor play in between didn't happen. I think some people forget that about Ponder.

I doubt anybody forgets that about Ponder. It's been acknowledged over and over and over again.

[Mothman]

Quite possible. I remember seeing a stat how good Cassel was when blitzed compared to Ponder. Here it is.

Thanks for the link. I'd be willing to bet that translates into fewer blitzes attempted too. If teams see on film that Cassel is playing very effectively against the blitz, and if he burns them a few times when they blitz, I would think that would cause them to take those risks less often.

It's also a stat that may underline the difference experience can make. As the article says:

If you're wondering how journeymen like McCown and Cassel can still be so effective for stretches in the NFL, it's not difficult to deduce; they're getting rid of the ball under pressure and taking advantage of favorable matchups while they're there.

Last year was Cassel's ninth year in the league. It was McCown's 11th season in the NFL. That's 20 years of pro experience on display and over that time, I imagine they've seen more than enough for the game to slow down for them. On the other hand, as the article pointed out, Ponder improved against the blitz each year but he clearly has a lot more work to do in that area of his game. If he manages to last 9+ years in the NFL, it's a safe bet he'll be handling the blitz better in year 9 than he has up to this point.

To bring all of this back to Bridgewater: if he handles pressure and performs well against the blitz early in his pro career, that could be an excellent indication that the Vikings have found themselves a genuine quarterback! It's something to keep an eye on.

[PacificNorseWest]

^He will. On to the next concern...

[Purple bruise]

Webbfan;

ROFL. 10 excuses for Ponder in one paragraph. [/quote]
It sounds as if you do not know enough about football or are blinded by "Ponder hate" to realize that those are all factual reasons for a lot of his shortcomings. [/quote]


Since when do factual reasons count around here? They only count for one person. The others have to suck it up and be better prepared. [/quote]

You mean like when Joe Webb was called on to face the Packers

[Demi]

Neither Webb or Ponder will every accomplish anything meaningful in this league, they're both below average QBs that never should have got the shots they did. So why are we even arguing about this?

I'm sure someone could make 10 excuses for why Webb played poorly...doesn't make him any better of a QB. Just like making excuses for Ponder doesn't change the fact he's a below average QB with a number of issues he's never going to overcome. The big one being between his ears.

[The Breeze]

@SlickRick

I think the line has definitely improved since the exit of Chlidress but I'm not seeing them as an above average unit.

However, I'm not even close to being an authority on the trenches and it's completely plausible to me that the reason AD continually gets hit behind the LOS has less to do with the O-line and more about the predictable nature of the playcalling.

I posted above that I'm not really a fan of Loadholt....a great run blocker no doubt., but he flat out struggles with pass protection on a regular basis.

And while it seems most everyone hedges toward the tackle position being more important than guard, or more difficult to play, if you have a weak player at guard it blows the middle of the pocket and the whole line suffers.

Kalil was not above average last year, nor was Johnson and Sullivan was iffy due to his recovery. On paper and past performance they individually appear above average...but until they actually put it together as a unit for a significant stretch I'll be left wanting as a fan.

Even during ADs monster year he gained half of those yards after contact...often right at the line...creating his own holes with his athleticism.

Still, a new, more innovative scheme and a QB who can get rid of the rock will make much of my concern moot.....I reckon.

the funniest thing is that the defense is where the real problem is. Despite it's shortcomings, the offense was pretty servicable last season...

[Purple bruise]

Neither Webb or Ponder will every accomplish anything meaningful in this league, they're both below average QBs that never should have got the shots they did. So why are we even arguing about this?

I'm sure someone could make 10 excuses for why Webb played poorly...doesn't make him any better of a QB. Just like making excuses for Ponder doesn't change the fact he's a below average QB with a number of issues he's never going to overcome. The big one being between his ears.

Wow, coming from the voice of reason. Thanks for setting me straight. Of course you must think that you know more than Zimmer or Turner because they have chosen to keep him on the team, giving him a chance to compete.

[Purple bruise]

Back to topic.

A little too dramatic for my taste but if you have 20 minutes to spare

Teddy Bridgewater: UnaBridged

sorry if already posted.

I liked the video but could due without the "Teddy Bears" flashing up on the screen. This kid is going to do quite well on this team

[Mothman]

Sigh... the point of that post about Ponder's rookie season was that a number of detrimental factors MAY have hindered his development right from the start or even left him as "damaged goods". Since the Vikings once again have a rookie QB who could end up playing, and since they are coming off a year where their defense was awful (again), the concept seems relevant and worthy of discussion. There's already been plenty of talk about whether Bridgewater will, or should, play this season. It doesn't seem completely out of left field to look back and consider the last time the Vikings were in this situation and how the state of the team and the choices they made may have affected their young QB.

They may have to make a decision about playing Bridgewater this season and while I know optimism is running high right now, we don't know what the season will bring, how the o-line or defense will perform, etc. If Cassel ends up as the starter and gets injured, the coaching staff is going to consider some of these same factors and whether they feel it's best to play Bridgewater sooner or later.

[Slick Rick]

Yes, but if they're valid, there's no reason to scoff at them.

Most of the complaints are equally valid. When a player has about 2 full seasons worth of starting under his belt, and he has as little to show for it as Ponder does, there's not really any excuse that changes that. Some people scoff at the lack of production. It's all about how you want to look at it, but in the end he has only proven to be an ineffective QB at this point in his career.

I doubt anybody forgets that about Ponder. It's been acknowledged over and over and over again.

You're probably right, but some people choose to defend him rather than actually facing the facts. It's like making an argument that Everson Griffen is going to be the next John Randle every time you defend Ponder. Yes, he does do some things well, yes he has been a victim of circumstances, but he also has a background. You don't forget the facts because you think that he can do certain things well, and if he's in a much improved situation (like the one we have now perhaps). You remember the facts, and realize that there's a chance that he could redeem himself. That's different from defending him, and it's being objective above all other things.

[Mothman]

Most of the complaints are equally valid. When a player has about 2 full seasons worth of starting under his belt, and he has as little to show for it as Ponder does, there's not really any excuse that changes that. Some people scoff at the lack of production. It's all about how you want to look at it, but in the end he has only proven to be an ineffective QB at this point in his career.

I didn't suggest otherwise.

You're probably right, but some people choose to defend him rather than actually facing the facts. It's like making an argument that Everson Griffen is going to be the next John Randle every time you defend Ponder. Yes, he does do some things well, yes he has been a victim of circumstances, but he also has a background. You don't forget the facts because you think that he can do certain things well, and if he's in a much improved situation (like the one we have now perhaps). You remember the facts, and realize that there's a chance that he could redeem himself. That's different from defending him, and it's being objective above all other things.

Who is forgetting these facts? It feels a little like you're jousting at windmills here.

[S197]

It would be interesting to do a study see if one of the reasons Ponder was sacked more is because opposing teams brought additional pressure more (the idea being that he didn't respond to it well so why not keep it coming?).

I think it was a perfect storm. You have a QB that doesn't do well under pressure and you can utilize the blitz to also stop the most explosive player on the field. Plus, you have Musgrave's compressed formations, which makes it even easier to load up the box. I don't know about the % Ponder saw the blitz versus other QB's but we've heard on several occasion that the Vikings saw more 8 and 9 in the box than most teams.

[mondry]

I think it was a perfect storm. You have a QB that doesn't do well under pressure and you can utilize the blitz to also stop the most explosive player on the field. Plus, you have Musgrave's compressed formations, which makes it even easier to load up the box. I don't know about the % Ponder saw the blitz versus other QB's but we've heard on several occasion that the Vikings saw more 8 and 9 in the box than most teams.

Yeah exactly that, not much else to say.

[mondry]

Also, guys, have I mentioned how good bridgewater's gonna be?!

[mosscarter]

i long for the moment i will never have to hear christian ponder's name ever called again. he is a total bum, he's stunk from the moment he came into the starting role. matt cassel is twice the qb ponder will ever be, and cassel isn't even that great. what does that say? cassel needs to be the starter if we want to even have a glimmer of a hope at the playoffs.