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Plans B and C were plans A and B last year.Just Me wrote:Brian Billick evaluates our QB (Make sure you check this link for context, and keep a healthy dose of skepticism until we see exactly how Bridgewater will work out for us.):
I'm excited to get one of the best QB prospects in Bridgewater. I'm optimistic he'll work out for us. I just hope we have learned our lesson and have a "plan B," just in case...
ESPN's Trent Dilfer described Teddy Bridgewater's draft fall by describing him as a Prius.The Breeze wrote:As far as prognosticating Bridgewater, what did Dilfer have to say about him?
Cosell on Bridgewater (4:35): http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=10907350“Wildly productive” and “super efficient” is how Dilfer described Bridgewater’s college career. “When he is between the lines he makes good decisions. He sees it clearly. He knows the timing and tempo it takes to be successful,” Dilfer said.
But Dilfer also detailed why Bridgewater is not a slam-dunk pick.
“He doesn’t have a lot of juice. His body doesn’t output a lot of energy. So it’s a little methodical. Not a lot of power in the body. His frame is not one you look at and go, ‘Wow, that guy’s going to be durable,’” Dilfer said of Bridgewater. “And you start adding all of this up, and he’s still a really good player. But he doesn’t have, because of the things you kind of learn more about him, he’s not a guy that you go, ‘Wow. That’s a franchise guy. That’s a top-10 pick. That’s a guy we can build around.’
“It’s more, ‘Ok, he’s gotta fit into the right system, have really good people around him. And when he does, he’ll be a very good player.”
Yep, it became pretty bad the more and more he struggled and started taking heat. In one crucial play, Greg Jennings gets absolutely wide open and he never see's him. A reporter asked him about that play and he basically had a "my #### don't stink" type response "If I didn't get him the ball, he must not have been open." It was very insulting and stupid to say, especially considering he was completely wrong about it.Mothman wrote: If Mondry perceives Ponder as cocky, I assume it's because of something he perceived in Ponder's demeanor at some point. I've always thought Ponder came across as sincere and humble but I don't live in Minnesota where I might see him on TV or hear him on the radio more often so maybe my view him is off target. To me, the only real issues with Ponder have been in games, primarily with the way he sees the field and handles pressure. Those are issues that some QBs improve on over time. Others never shake them but if Ponder gets the change of scenery and fresh start you mentioned, I hope it works out for him (and I hope Bridgewater works out for the Vikes).
I agree that he came off as defensive instead of owning up to his mistakes, but I don't think that this defensiveness meant that he wasn't working hard or was the last one to arrive and the first one to leave! Ponder worked hard, didn't establish himself as a solid starter, and simply got defensive when the press started pestering him for his shortcomings.mondry wrote: Yep, it became pretty bad the more and more he struggled and started taking heat. In one crucial play, Greg Jennings gets absolutely wide open and he never see's him. A reporter asked him about that play and he basically had a "my #### don't stink" type response "If I didn't get him the ball, he must not have been open." It was very insulting and stupid to say, especially considering he was completely wrong about it.
Sure Manziel is Cocky too but his comes from his actual ability, it's more like Swagger. Ponder's cockyness was more like a defense mechanism to remain oblivious to the truth that he wasn't getting it done.
Sketching cartoons in your notebook while eating breakfast in the cafeteria waiting for the rest of the team to get there isn't the right type of first guy there last guy to leave!
I remember that but at that point he was pretty much under siege from fans and the media and embroiled in a QB controversy. He may have just had enough. We all get annoyed or lose our temper at times. Overall, that comment was atypical of his attitude.mondry wrote:Yep, it became pretty bad the more and more he struggled and started taking heat. In one crucial play, Greg Jennings gets absolutely wide open and he never see's him. A reporter asked him about that play and he basically had a "my #### don't stink" type response "If I didn't get him the ball, he must not have been open." It was very insulting and stupid to say, especially considering he was completely wrong about it.
Sure Manziel is Cocky too but his comes from his actual ability, it's more like Swagger. Ponder's cockyness was more like a defense mechanism to remain oblivious to the truth that he wasn't getting it done.
LOL!Sketching cartoons in your notebook while eating breakfast in the cafeteria waiting for the rest of the team to get there isn't the right type of first guy there last guy to leave!
It's not that it doesn't sink in, it's just not enough to change my mind. As someone said, most people in the NFL work hard and put in extra work from time to time. So? Maybe Ponder did that, but I expected more, especially since he was struggling so much. And these few quotes are what you showed me the last time. If his work ethic is so great, you'd hear about it constantly--not just a few quotes from people who were likely asked specifically about Ponder's progression and such. What are they supposed to say? You really think they are going to call out their quarterback even if they feel like he could do more? I highly doubt that. That's why I take player's comments with a grain of salt, especially if they are asked questions about a specific player. People are too nice when it comes to evaluations all of the time. Why? Because sometimes it's not worth the drama to tell the whole truth. I know from experience. I do yearly evaluations on my co-workers, and I often say nice things, even if I don't believe them 100%. I often praise their work ethic, even if they do the bare minimum 90% of the time and are completely worthless at other times! That's reality; it's what people do. And how often do we hear players calling out their teammates? Not very often. Besides all that, the comments from the players seem to be very few and far between--and they are pretty general at that. Sullivan's comment was pretty standard, and MBT's comment was just ridiculously off, so, there's that.Mothman wrote:This subject comes up over and over again and yet when and yet what scouts, coaches and teammates have said about Ponder's work habits never seems to sink in...
I don't think of it as fear but as a lack of composure. Perhaps that's splitting hairs...The Breeze wrote:Thanks for the Dilfer analysis DP.
@Jim: It's true Ponder took plenty of hits....but the result was a downward spiral in his pocket presence. I don't think he runs solely because he's good at it....he runs because he doesn't stay calm and use the pocket to his advantage.
I actually credit some of the brutal hits from his rookie campaign (especially against the lions) as big reasons for his failures for hanging tough and going through his progressions in the pocket.
It's one thing to toss your body around at the end of a run when you know where the contact will come from. It's another to stand firm with your eyes downfield not knowing where you are gonna get hit from.
Happy feet= fear to me. I'm positive I would get them if it were me.
That's nice that you think that, but do you have anything to actually back up what you're saying? The comments about Bridgewater seem pretty standard to me.Funkytown wrote: It's not that it doesn't sink in, it's just not enough to change my mind. As someone said, most people in the NFL work hard and put in extra work from time to time. So? Maybe Ponder did that, but I expected more, especially since he was struggling so much. And these few quotes are what you showed me the last time. If his work ethic is so great, you'd hear about it constantly--not just a few quotes from people who were likely asked specifically about Ponder's progression and such. What are they supposed to say? You really think they are going to call out their quarterback even if they feel like he could do more? I highly doubt that. That's why I take player's comments with a grain of salt, especially if they are asked questions about a specific player. People are too nice when it comes to evaluations all of the time. Why? Because sometimes it's not worth the drama to tell the whole truth. I know from experience. I do yearly evaluations on my co-workers, and I often say nice things, even if I don't believe them 100%. I often praise their work ethic, even if they do the bare minimum 90% of the time and are completely worthless at other times! That's reality; it's what people do. And how often do we hear players calling out their teammates? Not very often. Besides all that, the comments from the players seem to be very few and far between--and they are pretty general at that. Sullivan's comment was pretty standard, and MBT's comment was just ridiculously off, so, there's that.
Just generally speaking, I was never impressed with Ponder's work ethic. It may have been "good", but most players can say that. His work ethic was nothing special, and that is the entire point. To me, it seems pretty obvious that Bridgewater's work ethic is on another level. And I'm confident, three years from now, I'll be able to round up dozens of quotes from players, coaches, reporters, commentators, etc. that say just that. See? That's when I believe it, when it's said over and over and over again. As mondry said, you hear that about Brees, Manning, Brady...and even Wilson, who hasn't even been in the league as long. There are some guys who go above and beyond, and it's undeniable; that was never Ponder. And so far, that is Bridgewater.
You'd hear about it constantly from whom? The people who work with him (like his offensive coordinator and teammates) are the people in the best position to observe his work habits and you're choosing to dismiss what they said.Funkytown wrote:It's not that it doesn't sink in, it's just not enough to change my mind. As someone said, most people in the NFL work hard and put in extra work from time to time. So? Maybe Ponder did that, but I expected more, especially since he was struggling so much. And these few quotes are what you showed me the last time. If his work ethic is so great, you'd hear about it constantly--not just a few quotes from people who were likely asked specifically about Ponder's progression and such.
By that logic, there's no reason to believe what we're hearing about Bridgewater either. What are his new coach, old coach, teammates, GM, supposed to say?What are they supposed to say? You really think they are going to call out their quarterback even if they feel like he could do more? I highly doubt that.
It seems like you've just chosen a position and chosen to ignore testimony to the contrary. You keep talking about players but it was Bill Musgrave, Ponder's offensive coordinator, who explicitly stated that Ponder was "fully invested", was at the facility to work "early in the morning and late at night", etc. Who would know better than his coach?Just generally speaking, I was never impressed with Ponder's work ethic.
Coach Frazier attributes much of Christian's improvement over the past few weeks to his renewed work ethic and extra film study that he has put in, both with quarterbacks coach Craig Johnson and offensive coordinator Bill Musgrave.
Read more: http://www.kfan.com/onair/vikings-blog- ... z32N7ZIfi5From that moment on, Ponder attacked his craft with a rekindled passion and fervor. He started with decision making. "I can't force things that aren't there," he said. Then he moved on to building a better rapport with his receivers. Extra passes before practices, extra passes after. On the field early before the games and conversing on the sidelines during. All these things led Christian to better get in-sync with his receiving corps.
You're obviously choosing to believe reports about his work ethic because you want to believe them and choosing to ignore virtually the same information about Ponder because, apparently, you don't want to believe it or haven't heard enough members of the media talking about it, as if they would be in a better position to know than the people he works with every day. Heck, when the media talks about a player's work ethic, who do you think they get that information from in the first place?To me, it seems pretty obvious that Bridgewater's work ethic is on another level.
They do? I disagree. I don't feel like Bridgewater's work ethic is standard or average. Everything I've been reading for the past how many weeks says otherwise; it says he is special. And like I said, he is willing to go above and beyond. You get comments like, "If you followed his college career, Bridgewater’s work ethic and ability to execute on what he has learned are unmatched." And, "He reviewed every single play of his 2011 season, and his improvement from year to year was the result of his dedication and hard work." A quick internet search would probably link you to similar comments all over the place. Also, everything I've read, heard, and watched since he has been drafted seems to validate all of this. I have no reason to believe this kind of work ethic would decrease; actually, I think it will get better. And, that's why, I think Bridgewater has the kind of work ethic I have been craving. Whether it all translates to the field or not remains to be seen, but, so far, all of this stuff about Bridgewater is music to my ears. And, no, I don't think his work ethic is exactly, typical.maembe wrote:That's nice that you think that, but do you have anything to actually back up what you're saying? The comments about Bridgewater seem pretty standard to me.
No, I don't ignore it. As I've already said, it's just not enough to change my mind. It really is pretty simple.Mothman wrote:It seems like you've just chosen a position and chosen to ignore testimony to the contrary.
I agree...and I think the lack of composure in that specifc environment is more the norm for a human being, which is what I mean that a guy has to be kinda goofy\crazy to thrive as an NFL QB...assuming he isn't a mountain of a guy physically like Newton or Rothelburgers.Mothman wrote: I don't think of it as fear but as a lack of composure. Perhaps that's splitting hairs...
Mothman wrote: I don't think of it as fear but as a lack of composure. Perhaps that's splitting hairs...
