What are your intial feelings on Bridgewater as a Vike

[purplereign1]

you guys make it sound like bridgewater has as weak of an arm as ponder. this is simply not the case. keep in mind, teddy will only get stronger he already wants to put on about 20 pounds prior to the season. in truth, the comparison to ponder isn't a fair one. i'm not sure there was anyone who was excited about ponder (at least none of draft guys, coaches, or analysts). everyone was in shock when we drafted him mainly because they knew he really wasn't any good to begin with. several coaches, including gruden mentioned above, rave over bridgewater. kurt warner is also a huge fan of bridgewater i also saw an interview with him.

If anyone saw the sports science show Bridgewater actually had the strongest arm tested this year. Unfortunately he didn't do real great on the other things. Here is the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT_7OhKulRg

[purplereign1]

Small hands really matter about as much as any other measurable. There are 6'6 220 lb receivers who run the 40 in 4.4 seconds, but if they can't play they can't play. You have to be able to produce. If you're a 5'3 170 lb QB with 7.5" hands, who's going to say he can't play if he throws for 4,000 yards and 35 TDs and leads his team to the SB? Hand size doesn't really matter unless you suck or you can't hold onto the ball because of it. Bridgewater seems to be able to throw it just fine. Not sure if he'll have problems when he gets tackled or not. Let's hope it really doesn't become an issue that he's getting tackled a whole lot and we won't have to find out.

I tend to agree. However the 5'3 qb example might be a bit of a stretch. Here is a list of recent quarterbacks with small hands. Could be worse.

Small-Handed Quarterbacks Who Excel

There are some quarterbacks with small hands who have bucked the trend to play well in the NFL, too. But as I studied those quarterbacks, it became clear that the majority have one thing in common—mobility. Some of the top small-handed quarterbacks to play in the past decade include Michael Vick (historically small 8.5-inch hands), Colin Kaepernick (9.13 inches), Robert Griffin III (9.5 inches), Daunte Culpepper (9.5 inches), Aaron Rodgers (9.38 inches), and Tony Romo (8.86 inches).

[Texas Vike]

Some pre-draft videos on Teddy are kind of fun to watch now that the draft is over.

I enjoyed the stats supporting his superior play on ESPN's Numbers Never Lie. He comes off as very mature and balanced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4MIIYprQ9M


This take is interesting--saying he's a great fit with Turner and the Vikings, though they thought 8 was a bit high for him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4MIIYprQ9M

[vikeinmontana]

holy offseason. I've read more about small hands and hand sizes on this board the last week than I have heard in my entire life!

[mosscarter]

i've never saw that video purplereign it was interesting to see the arm strength myth totally debunked, but i had to laugh at the end when it said ponder rated higher than both mccaron and bridgewater. we all know how that turned out.

[King James]

i've never saw that video purplereign it was interesting to see the arm strength myth totally debunked, but i had to laugh at the end when it said ponder rated higher than both mccaron and bridgewater. we all know how that turned out.

Guys like Blake Bortles remind me of Ponder. Not on the terms of ability but in terms of that manage to bloom during their last seasons in college. Guys that most fans pay no attention to until it got closer to draft day. But then you have guys like Manziel and Bridgewater, who are well known because of how well they played over the course of their careers with their teams. I had no idea Ponder was rated higher coming out of college than a guy like Bridgewater coming out.

I think that's why some QBs who get drafted in the 1st rounds don't pan out. Scouts get so riled up over the east/west shrine game, senior bowl, combine. and pro days and overlook how average or how well a player has played in college overall.

[dead_poet]

If anyone saw the sports science show Bridgewater actually had the strongest arm tested this year. Unfortunately he didn't do real great on the other things. Here is the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT_7OhKulRg

I'd be curious to see a list of Sport Science results, particularly QBs. Does anyone know if this exists?

[Eli]

I enjoyed the stats supporting his superior play on ESPN's Numbers Never Lie.

A rather ironic title. They lie all the time. The number of draft busts predicated by GMs relying on useless numbers is huge.

[Texas Vike]

A rather ironic title. They lie all the time. The number of draft busts predicated by GMs relying on useless numbers is huge.

It's the poor judgement of humans in choosing which numbers to privilege/ give weight to that can end up deceiving (numbers have no agency, so they can't lie). I personally put more weight on actual play / game tape instead of combine numbers or height/weight measurements. Put another way, if Bridgewater fails in the NFL, I don't think it will be because of his small hands.

Predicted success predicated on the wrong numbers can certainly lead many a GM (and rabid fans on forums) astray.

[maembe]

Guys like Blake Bortles remind me of Ponder. Not on the terms of ability but in terms of that manage to bloom during their last seasons in college. Guys that most fans pay no attention to until it got closer to draft day. But then you have guys like Manziel and Bridgewater, who are well known because of how well they played over the course of their careers with their teams. I had no idea Ponder was rated higher coming out of college than a guy like Bridgewater coming out.

I think that's why some QBs who get drafted in the 1st rounds don't pan out. Scouts get so riled up over the east/west shrine game, senior bowl, combine. and pro days and overlook how average or how well a player has played in college overall.

Ponder was actually the exact opposite. He was a 3 year starter and was great in his junior season and was headed toward being a first round pick then got injured and fell off a little bit after his injury. I think the reason that workouts and senior bowls might have been more important for a guy like Ponder were because he had injury concerns and they wanted to make sure he would fully recover, a strong finish could indicate that the injury issues were behind him.

Picking QBs isn't an exact science. Rarely will you ever get a chance at a sure thing like Andrew Luck. Any QB you pick has a chance to completely flame out. In three years we could be talking about how dumb Rick Spielman was for not emphasizing pro day workouts and combine measurables enough when scouting QBs and how we would have picked Glibert because of his awesome pro day.

[Mothman]

It's the poor judgement of humans in choosing which numbers to privilege/ give weight to that can end up deceiving (numbers have no agency, so they can't lie). I personally put more weight on actual play / game tape instead of combine numbers or height/weight measurements. Put another way, if Bridgewater fails in the NFL, I don't think it will be because of his small hands.

Predicted success predicated on the wrong numbers can certainly lead many a GM (and rabid fans on forums) astray.

... and let's face it, the number of draft busts is huge, period.

[mosscarter]

i'm not even sure ponder qualifies as a bust because everyone knew he would be terrible. in order to be a bust, you must first have people who think you will be very successful. i don't recall anyone really being high on ponder whatsoever. aside from ponder, who upon mentioning his name i still slightly gag, i don't think bridgewater shares hardly any if any of his traits at all. i guess the element of uncertainty that surrounds qb's this time of year, but that goes for everyone.

[King James]

i'm not even sure ponder qualifies as a bust because everyone knew he would be terrible. in order to be a bust, you must first have people who think you will be very successful. i don't recall anyone really being high on ponder whatsoever. aside from ponder, who upon mentioning his name i still slightly gag, i don't think bridgewater shares hardly any if any of his traits at all. i guess the element of uncertainty that surrounds qb's this time of year, but that goes for everyone.

Obviously the Vikings thought he would be very successful if they took in at #12 in the first round. Many fans were not high on Ponder, but maybe the Vikings scouts and other scouts in the NFL had him high on their boards. He really helped his draft stock in the senior bowl. So I think he qualifies as a bust. I remember after he was drafted and like every year, there's a discussion about whether you should start or sit certain rookie QBs. I remember every article and video I saw suggested that Ponder should start day 1. This was before we reached out to McNabb. A lot of people thought Ponder was supposed to be this complete west coast package, seeing as he's able to make these dink and dunk throws, and scrambles when he has to.

That being said, I agree. Bridgewater is nothing like Ponder. Teddy is a pocket passer. I think he has the tendency to throw the ball away before he tries to scramble unless he has a lot of open field ahead of him. Plus he is poised under pressure, something that Ponder clearly is not. I could go on and on, but Ponder and Bridgewater are two different QBs. They are nowhere near similar.

[VikingLord]

i'm not even sure ponder qualifies as a bust because everyone knew he would be terrible. in order to be a bust, you must first have people who think you will be very successful. i don't recall anyone really being high on ponder whatsoever. aside from ponder, who upon mentioning his name i still slightly gag, i don't think bridgewater shares hardly any if any of his traits at all. i guess the element of uncertainty that surrounds qb's this time of year, but that goes for everyone.

Any time you spend a high first round pick on a player and you can't get consistent production from him, that qualifies as a bust, at least as far as a guy like Rick Spielman is concerned. And to take a guy like Ponder at #12, you have to be high (on him), so its not at all clear that the people who do this sort of evaluation for a living and stake their jobs on the outcome weren't convinced Ponder was the answer. Ponder had some measureables and some characteristics that, under ideal circumstances and with a little luck, could have produced. Unfortunately for Spielman, he didn't, and now he gets added to the soon-to-be-a-journeyman heap.

Bridgewater is a much lower risk taken at a much lower slot. I would have been happy had Spielman gotten Bridgewater at #9 and still considered it great value.

[mosscarter]

i definitely agree ponder was a bust when put into the context of when he was drafted. but, i mean it was really utter shock on behalf of most everyone on the panel that day when his name got called i can remember the reaction. i remember one packer fan writing in a forum, "i thought minnesota was going to draft fairly, but i breathed a sigh of relief after they took ponder." to this day i still laugh at that comment my buddy brings it up all the time. for the most part people knew he wasn't that talented the vikings just took a major risk and it failed miserably.