Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer

[Mothman]

A valid point, and perhaps that was his motivation. Nonetheless, Kluwe has to choose to heed or disregard counsel's advice. In this isolated case (whatever his motivation), he chose wisely, IMHO.

Oh, I agree but unfortunately for Kluwe, the vindictive position he initially chose to take (and chose to take long after the events in question supposedly took place) still calls his motivations into question. It's to his credit that he's softened his stance a bit but it's very difficult for me to view that as anything but a change of position based on some wise legal advice. He's opened Pandora's Box and he can't close it now. He would have been wise to seek legal advice before slinging accusations of bigotry and cowardice, all wrapped up in a nice, long explanation/justification of his martyrdom as a qualified punter who was drummed out of the NFL for his outspoken views on same sex marriage and other issues.

If that sounds excessively cynical, I apologize. I strongly disapprove of the way Kluwe has gone about this.

[Mothman]

I am afraid you are being a little selective here. You have accused Kluwe of bashing and vindictiveness and dismissed his position out of hand. There have been very few here who have called for Priefer's dismissal without knowing the full story. Any calls for his firing have been qualified with, "if this is true." Just because some have tended to believe Kluwe doesn't mean they have a lynch mob mentality. In fact, if you compare the language leveled in criticism of Kluwe versus the language leveled in criticism of Priefer, there has been far more vitriol in opinions about Kluwe.

I assume that's because we have his statements in print and there's no question that he made them.

[Just Me]

If that sounds excessively cynical, I apologize. I strongly disapprove of the way Kluwe has gone about this.

A little cynical (but maybe accurate). I too, disapprove of Kluwe's methods (in other issues too). Just trying to be fair to the guy, and from what I know of you, I know you are too.

[Funkytown]

If I had a boss who made that same kind of statement about another group of people, majority or minority, I'd probably report it immediately, to heck with my job should it negatively effect it.

Easier said than done. We have different ideas in our heads about how we would have (or he should have) handled the situation, but it's hard to know for sure, right? To potentially throw away a great paying job that supports you and your family? Yeah. Not that easy. A lot of people put up with crap at work. That's life. Sometimes you put up with A LOT OF NONSENSE just to keep that money coming in. So, it's hard to say how Kluwe should have handled it. Maybe it's one of those, "I'm just going to try to ignore this and maybe it'll go away" type of things. Ya know, just trying to keep the peace and remain employed. That's a reality for a lot of folks. But now, with "nothing to lose", so to speak, because there isn't a job left to be saved? Ha. Let some of those feelings of resentment out! Why not? "How Kluwe handled it" isn't even the main issue for me. I'm surprised it's the main issue to some people. Actually, no, no I'm not. Some people don't like Kluwe's attitude or message, so they'd rather hate on him for his "wrong" of how he exposed this than the much more disturbing "wrong" of the real issue here--disgusting, hateful comments and taunting towards an employee. What's worse? The actual story or the telling of the story?

[Mothman]

A little cynical (but maybe accurate). I too, disapprove of Kluwe's methods (in other issues too). Just trying to be fair to the guy, and from what I know of you, I know you are too.

Thanks. I AM trying to be fair. I just wish he'd gone about this another way and I wish he'd back off on the whole "cowards" angle. To me, that really hurts his case. It makes me question his mental state as all of this was going on because he really does paint a picture of himself as a martyr to his cause, stifled and fired by a cowardly head coach and GM and a bigoted position coach. I don't think he's provided anything convincing to support that aspect of his accusation and it leaves me questioning his perception of events at the time. Was he imagining himself as the persecuted champion of a just cause, paying a price for his beliefs when, in fact, the Vikings were seeing him as a PR nuisance, an average punter, a distraction and a player who was going to cost more than he was worth in 2013?

[Mothman]

Easier said than done. We have different ideas in our heads about how we would have (or he should have) handled the situation, but it's hard to know for sure, right? To potentially throw away a great paying job that supports you and your family? Yeah. Not that easy. A lot of people put up with crap at work. That's life. Sometimes you put up with A LOT OF NONSENSE just to keep that money coming in. So, it's hard to say how Kluwe should have handled it. Maybe it's one of those, "I'm just going to try to ignore this and maybe it'll go away" type of things. Ya know, just trying to keep the peace and remain employed. That's a reality for a lot of folks. But now, with "nothing to lose", so to speak, because there isn't a job left to be saved? Ha. Let some of those feelings of resentment out! Why not? "How Kluwe handled it" isn't even the main issue for me. I'm surprised it's the main issue to some people. Actually, no, no I'm not. Some people don't like Kluwe's attitude or message, so they'd rather hate on him for his "wrong" of how he exposed this than the much more disturbing "wrong" of the real issue here--disgusting, hateful comments and taunting towards an employee. What's worse? The actual story or the telling of the story?

There's no way to answer that question because we don't know the actual story. All we have is Kluwe's version of it and I don't "hate" him for the way he conveyed his message, I just don't like the way he conveyed it. There's a difference.

By the way, how Kluwe chose to convey his message is important because it speaks to the state of mind of the messenger as well as to his credibility. How Kluwe handled it IS a big part of the issue and it could be an even bigger part of his allegations don;t find more support.

[Purple bruise]

If kluwe is telling the truth then the wrongdoers should be held accountable. If he is telling lies, I hope he gets his butt sued for defamation and slander. Either way this is beyond tiresome

[Funkytown]

So all "blah-blah-blah" aside, we all know what happens when you assume, right?

We do.

That's my thing, though. The first issue here is: Do you believe Kluwe or not? And then opinions follow after that. Just reading through these many responses, it's pretty obvious who believes Kluwe and who doesn't. For those of us who believe Kluwe, we are likely to respond with resentment and disgust towards Priefer, and for those who don't necessarily believe Kluwe, they are going with the, "Let's wait and see" or "Kluwe, you're annoying...shut the f*** up and go away" attitude. "Let's wait and see" is a bit more mature and responsible, but again, if one believed Kluwe, even a little bit, what are we waiting for again? Just the validation, right? So, then we can be upset for real for real? Either you believe him or you don't, but it's hard to get to anything else without that first assumption, right?

For me, it just comes down to common sense. Of course, I love Kluwe. He's my guy. But, aside from all that, this guy is a VERY intelligent man who spent a good amount of time and put some serious thought into all of this. Being an intelligent man, do we honestly believe he pulled all (or even some) of this out of his butt? Clearly, being that intelligent man who has been previously outspoken about many things, he knows the consquences of his actions/words. (Hello? Isn't that the issue here?) Is he dumb enough to make stories up like this and release them to the entire world? Come on. Whether someone likes Kluwe or not, or approves of his methods, at some point, common sense has to kick in. Common sense says: Kluwe didn't make this up. And because he probably didn't make these things up, and they, indeed, (likely) did happen, I'm choosing to put my resentment and disgust towards Priefer, not Kluwe, despite his less-than-desirable methods. Two wrongs don't make a right. I get that. But I can still have an opinion on which one was more wrong. To me, that's not Kluwe. Because as I said, if I'm going off my first assumption of "Kluwe is being honest" then I don't think his name calling and whatnot compares to the rest. I'm not saying it's all entirely justified, but I know it's less wrong than Priefer's comments. So, there ya go.

[BGM]

There's no way to answer that question because we don't know the actual story. All we have is Kluwe's version of it and I don't "hate" him for the way he conveyed his message, I just don't like the way he conveyed it. There's a difference.

By the way, how Kluwe chose to convey his message is important because it speaks to the state of mind of the messenger as well as to his credibility. How Kluwe handled it IS a big part of the issue and it could be an even bigger part of his allegations don;t find more support.

It's an interesting point you bring up. We all seem to be biased toward someone who voices their opinions in a certain manner. That's why lawyers carefully coach witnesses. Too often, it is not the truth that matters, but how the truth is presented.

[Mothman]

It's an interesting point you bring up. We all seem to be biased toward someone who voices their opinions in a certain manner. That's why lawyers carefully coach witnesses. Too often, it is not the truth that matters, but how the truth is presented.

Well said and as you stated, we all seem to be biased in this way. we just don't all share the same bias.

[Funkytown]

There's no way to answer that question because we don't know the actual story. All we have is Kluwe's version of it...

True, and I believe Kluwe's version to be pretty accurate. Didn't he start taking notes on this after he realized how serious it was getting? I bet his story is a lot more accurate than those who made careless comments or those who weren't being criticized themselves. People make stupid comments all the time but don't really remember them. Oftentimes, the people on the RECEIVING end of those remarks remember things more accurately. Wouldn't you agree?

...and I don't "hate" him for the way he conveyed his message, I just don't like the way he conveyed it. There's a difference.

"Hate on" not "hate"...there's a difference.

By the way, how Kluwe chose to convey his message is important because it speaks to the state of mind of the messenger as well as to his credibility. How Kluwe handled it IS a big part of the issue and it could be an even bigger part of his allegations don;t find more support.

For sure it's important. But some are focusing on the "way he conveyed his message" more so than his actual message. I guess, he is partly to blame for that, but it makes little sense to focus so much on Kluwe while basically ignoring Priefer's comments. I'm not saying all are doing that, but after reading through some comments on this, some are definitely doing that. Again, I think that has to do with people's dislike for Kluwe, his message, and his attitude. I know Kluwe created some of that resentment on his own, but the rest of the story shouldn't be almost ignored just so people can diss Kluwe. (Not saying you. Just responding to some general attitudes towards the situation.)

[Funkytown]

Well said and as you stated, we all seem to be biased in this way. we just don't all share the same bias.

Truth.

[Mothman]

We do.

That's my thing, though. The first issue here is: Do you believe Kluwe or not? And then opinions follow after that. Just reading through these many responses, it's pretty obvious who believes Kluwe and who doesn't. For those of us who believe Kluwe, we are likely to respond with resentment and disgust towards Priefer, and for those who don't necessarily believe Kluwe, they are going with the, "Let's wait and see" or "Kluwe, you're annoying...shut the f*** up and go away" attitude. "Let's wait and see" is a bit more mature and responsible, but again, if one believed Kluwe, even a little bit, what are we waiting for again? Just the validation, right? So, then we can be upset for real for real? Either you believe him or you don't, but it's hard to get to anything else without that first assumption, right?

For me, it just comes down to common sense. Of course, I love Kluwe. He's my guy. But, aside from all that, this guy is a VERY intelligent man who spent a good amount of time and put some serious thought into all of this. Being an intelligent man, do we honestly believe he pulled all (or even some) of this out of his butt? Clearly, being that intelligent man who has been previously outspoken about many things, he knows the consquences of his actions/words. (Hello? Isn't that the issue here?) Is he dumb enough to make stories up like this and release them to the entire world? Come on. Whether someone likes Kluwe or not, or approves of his methods, at some point, common sense has to kick in. Common sense says: Kluwe didn't make this up. And because he probably didn't make these things up, and they, indeed, (likely) did happen, I'm choosing to put my resentment and disgust towards Priefer, not Kluwe, despite his less-than-desirable methods. Two wrongs don't make a right. I get that. But I can still have an opinion on which one was more wrong. To me, that's not Kluwe. Because as I said, if I'm going off my first assumption of "Kluwe is being honest" then I don't think his name calling and whatnot compares to the rest. I'm not saying it's all entirely justified, but I know it's less wrong than Priefer's comments. So, there ya go.

I understand what you're saying about common sense but intelligence doesn't necessarily equate to truth or good judgment. Intelligent people make mistakes, lie and do stupid things all the time. Kluwe may be telling the truth here or he may just be telling the truth as he perceives it, which isn't necessarily an accurate depiction of events, although it may be his honest view of them.

There's a fair amount of potential territory between "Kluwe made it up" and "it all went down just as Kluwe said it did". That's why a lot of us want more information, and some actual confirmation of Kluwe's claims, before getting angry, disgusted, resentful, or anything else toward the people he's accused.

[Mothman]

For sure it's important. But some are focusing on the "way he conveyed his message" more so than his actual message. I guess, he is partly to blame for that, but it makes little sense to focus so much on Kluwe while basically ignoring Priefer's comments. I'm not saying all are doing that, but after reading through some comments on this, some are definitely doing that. Again, I think that has to do with people's dislike for Kluwe, his message, and his attitude.

You might be right. I can only speak for myself and the main reason I haven't had much to say about Preifer's comments is because there's been no confirmation whatsoever that he actually made them.

I know Kluwe created some of that resentment on his own, but the rest of the story shouldn't be almost ignored just so people can diss Kluwe. (Not saying you. Just responding to some general attitudes towards the situation.)

I understand.

[Funkytown]

There's a fair amount of potential territory between "Kluwe made it up" and "it all went down just as Kluwe said it did". That's why a lot of us want more information, and some actual confirmation of Kluwe's claims, before getting angry, disgusted, resentful, or anything else toward the people he's accused.

Understandable. I'll wait for you.