Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer

[Mothman]

How stupid of me!! I misread this whole ordeal ... I'd love to be able to glow.

Bioluminescence is where it's at, man.

[mansquatch]

"Free speech" has absolutely nothing to do with whether an employer can fire you, Kluwe or Priefer. If an employer does not want you, it's very easy to find a legit reason to fire you.

I'm not saying it is a legal violation of his first amendment right. I'm saying it is in a way a violation of the spirit of the right. My take on this is to ask "If the Vikings fire Priefer over this incident will it have anything to do with his poerformance in terms of Football." The answer is an unequivocal no IMO. So if they do can him it will be for PR reasons only. If Kluwe had brought up this issue in reference to say Priefer's opinions on Ping Pong, this would have been considered at best stupid humor. But since it is about a certain group, then it suddenly worth canning him since it has been brought up in the public space. (Consider this my tirade on the ludicrousity of "getting offended".)

IMO, unelss very overwhelming evidence surfaces against Preifer, ie a video similar to Bounty Gate, then Kluwe is most likely a spoiled brat trying to use his minor celebrity status to get revenge on his former employer. I have zero respect for that. However, what really bugs me is how the Vikings are having to act in light of these "allegations". They are hiring an attorney to investigate. What a massive distraction that is and again, exactly what does anything of this have to do with winning football games? The best case right now is nothing is confirmed and we waste a lot of time on nothing. Even then we still might see Priefer get the axe and to me that is a just a waste of solid coaching talent.

This is not winning us a SB... SIGH

[NextQuestion]

At the end of the day, and let's be honest guys n gals: We all know that being respectful to human beings and their sexual preferences is a DISTRACTION!

[Mothman]

Technically speaking, he wanted the island to glow, not them.

Aw, maaaan... you ruined my joke.

[King James]

If Priefer actually did say those things, he should get a big fine, not terminated. When Riley Cooper dropped the N-Bomb he was under scrutiny but managed to keep his job and have a great season. Priefer shouldn't be overlooked as a potential HC because of some words. If I got overpaid bucks just to punt like Kluwe did, I wouldn't care what you say to me. I'm getting paid.

Kluwe is probably broke and looking to file a civil lawsuit.

[dead_poet]

Kluwe is probably broke and looking to file a civil lawsuit.

Yeah, I'm sure he's broke.

[BGM]

Kluwe is probably broke and looking to file a civil lawsuit.

I'm sorry. This is just ridiculous.

Frankly, I hope it isn't true. I hope that a man who has authority and is a role model for young men did not use such inflammatory and discriminatory and gruesomely offensive language at the mere mention of homosexuality.

However, I am no pollyanna. I know that the NFL is an insular male-dominated league that holds on desperately to an idealized, if out-dated and wholly inaccurate, image of what it is to be a man. It does not surprise me that this attitude would show up in an NFL meeting room. But, that neither makes it acceptable nor merely offensive. That language, used by a man in a position of authority, carries weight and has a chilling effect on anyone who does not agree with his position. Even if it was said in a "half-joking" manner, it still carries the weight of being said by someone in authority.

I do not begrudge Priefer's right to believe whatever he wants. But if this was true, it was discriminatory. Don't think it was? Imagine that one of the players in the room was gay (not an unrealistic assumption) and tell me it was not offensive and discriminatory. Or, what if Priefer had said all Christians, instead of all gays. It's easy to turn a blind eye when it is not your group being discriminated against.

Again, I really hope against hope this is untrue.

[NextQuestion]

Dang...not that I expect anywhere here to believe me but a musician buddy of mine is good friends with Kluwe: I guess Chris told my pal about this stuff back when it happened.

I thought Chris was awesome the one time I met him. His band played the bar I work at the day after he got cut and is into the same stuff I am: Music, video games, politics

[BGM]

Dang...not that I expect anywhere here to believe me but a musician buddy of mine is good friends with Kluwe: I guess Chris told my pal about this stuff back when it happened.

I thought Chris was awesome the one time I met him. His band played the bar I work at the day after he got cut and is into the same stuff I am: Music, video games, politics

I was wondering if your connections were going to divulge anything. It's still hearsay, but that does nudge me more in the direction of believing Kluwe.

[NextQuestion]

hah, I hate even calling it a "connection" because my buddy is not some football insider. He's known Kluwe for a few years because of Tripping Icarus and the video game world.

The one thing my buddy said was, "Look hard at what Blair Walsh actually said". It's not necessarily a flat out denial...

of course, at the moment we have zero evidence but I'm guessing if it goes to court there will be more light shed.

[dkoby]

This guy is becoming a real PITA. He needs to go away.

[Just Me]

hah, I hate even calling it a "connection" because my buddy is not some football insider. He's known Kluwe for a few years because of Tripping Icarus and the video game world.

The one thing my buddy said was, "Look hard at what Blair Walsh actually said". It's not necessarily a flat out denial...

of course, at the moment we have zero evidence but I'm guessing if it goes to court there will be more light shed.

I had said earlier in the thread that approximately 80% (some suggest a little more, but the point is: a significant portion) of communication is non-verbal. The second thing that investigators do is actually parse the words that were spoken. They can (not always, but when taken in context with other indicators: body language, etc.) be an indicator of what actually happened. An example:

Interrogator: Did you kill your husband?
Interviewee: I love my husband! How can you ask me that?

What appears to be a denial, really isn't. The subject may indeed have loved her husband, but that wouldn't preclude the killing in a moment where she lost her temper, or some other unforeseen circumstance. So let's look at would Walsh did say:

I have been a member of the Minnesota Vikings for 2 years. I want to start off by saying I have the utmost respect for Rick Spielman, Leslie Frazier and Mike Priefer. All three, are good men.

I have had countless conversations and interactions with Coach Priefer, and I personally can attest to his integrity and character. His professionalism in the workplace is exemplary, and I firmly believe that my teammates would whole-heartedly agree. The allegations made today are reprehensible and totally not compatible with what Mike Priefer stands for.

All of those could be true statements even if Priefer did make the alleged statement. Continuing:

As we all know, in the NFL you must perform at the highest level and meet the performance expectations of your coaches, management, and ownership. If these expectations, based upon past performance AND future potential for excellence, are not met, your NFL career with that team, is over. I believe this was the case with Chris, and it is unfair to think that his release was anything other than football related.

This wording suggests that even if Priefer made the alleged statements, Walsh believes Kluwe's release was based on "job reasons." His choice of the word "unfair" (as opposed to "wrong") suggests that he is not sure (i.e. he 'believes' - and to be fair, how could be be sure unless he was inside management's head(s).) but feels it is 'unfair' to draw another conclusion. IOW I agree with him for the same reason: I'm not sure what happened so it is 'unfair' to think that the release was related to something other than football. It does not, however, conclusively establish that Kluwe's release wasn't somehow related to his stance on social issues.

In my time here at Minnesota, Rick Spielman and Leslie Frazier have exemplified true leadership. Contrary to Chris’ statements, they have promoted a workplace environment that was conducive for success. At no time did I ever feel suppressed or that I could not be myself.

This sentence stands out only because his praise excluded Priefer. This is not necessarily significant. He had already addressed Priefer in previous sentences, so it's possible this was a transition to establish support for the other two (not mentioned in as much depth by Walsh) as quality persons. It could also be indicative that he does not feel the same way about Priefer as he does about Spielman and Frazier. That would be something I would try to clarify moving forward, if I were the investigator.

I firmly stand behind Rick Spielman, Leslie Frazier, and Mike Priefer.

Blair Walsh

Walsh 'stands behind' all three men (which could men anywhere from: "I fully support all three" (which is what it normally means) to "I'm their employee, so I support the company" (which is the phrasing used to make a truthful statement, even when there is less than 100% agreement.

It's important to note that even if Walsh had made the statement: "That conversation never occurred in my presence" I would have focused on the "in my presence" portion of the sentence. Did it occur outside out of his presence? Had he heard (from others) of the conversation occurring outside his presence. If he said, "It never happened [the conversation]", I'd want to know how he could be so sure. (e.g. was he with Kluwe at all times at all meetings? You see the point.


It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I would say I will accept the conclusion(s) of the independent investigators when they are made known. Whether or not the Vikings fire Priefer at the end of this will be a business decision. (If it were Illinois, it would actually be illegal for Kluwe to have been fired for "sexual preference". I'm honestly not sure how that translates into being "vocally active" for that social issue in terms of legal protection. Not being familiar with MN law, I suspect it's not illegal (few states have offered protection beyond Federal Title VII protection, but Illinois is one of them).

[NextQuestion]

I'm just going to let it play out. Good friends can sometimes do unexpected things but my pal said this of Kluwe: "I can't say much, but this stuff is true. Chris isn't dumb enough to go off making this up".

[yezzir]

Kluwe,

You can be smart AND a huge ####.

[The Breeze]

I could lie and say that I'm stunned to see it suggested here that the only people who would be offended by what Priefer is alleged to have said would be members of the gay/lesbian community.

I could lie and say I'm shocked to see members here state that Kluwe referred to Frazier and Spielman as cowards because they didn't support his views.


It's just a football locker room......it's just an isolated occurrence within the greater cultural context. Riiiight

If you can heal the symptoms but not affect the cause, you can't heal the symptoms.

That dude is black/mexican/moslem etc....but at least he's not gay.

Whether Priefer said it or not, the very idea of rounding people up and nuking them is anti-humanity.... and if we as a society aren't striving to overcome that method of resolution it will not be surprising to see that it's some kind of cultural event like,.....oh ....maybe a football game, where we see that particular 'glow'.

What do they say?......you reap what ye sew?

What goes on between two consenting adults is consentual. If your god says it's a sin, by all means, let your god handle it directly.

It's hard enough just being man in todays society, what with evolution of awareness and such....but I got to imagine it's that much harder to be a gay man.

I could lie and suggest that it's hilarious that the only guy in the league willing to make a stand is a punter....but it's not hilarious.

Too bad Kluwe didn't stick to playing QB, maybe people would interpret his message differently. As it is, no one has to pay attention to a punter....cause it's almost like being gay.