Fire Spielman too?

[CalVike]

It's a forgone conclusion the Frazier era ends soon, IMHO. Whither Rick Spielman? His best known QB prospects are A.J. Feeley in Miami back in the day and Christian Ponder (his tentacles are also all over a pickup of QB Josh Freeman mid-season, a decision that only hurt the team's ability to rebound from a tough start with so many close losses, in a season when 8-7-1 may win the division). He did draft a Pro Bowl kicker in 2012, also Harrison Smith, little else of note. The Percy Harvin trade looks good so far, with Xavier Rhodes solid. Cordarelle Patterson looks great, but he came at a high price, a 3 and a 4 and a 7 on a team whose depth is so bad that Audie Cole's starting at the MLB is viewed as a positive instead of an unmitigated disaster. The CB decision to ride Josh Robinson was a bust. They needed Antoine Winfield at whatever the cost. Bottom line: this team may set a 53 season high for most points allowed by a defense. Personally, I think all these reasons should cause the team to part ways with the GM immediately.

Edit: correction, an earlier version of this post referred to Jay Feely, a kicker, my bad.


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[NDVikeFan]

I don't think Ziggy wants to pay 2 head coaches and 2 GMs next year so I say he gets another year. He does have some good picks but the depth is just terrible at so many positions, which I guess Spielman kind of traded away depth for the good picks. So really I think its a toss up.

[Eli]

I kind of doubt that it will happen, but it would be a shame if Spielman isn't thrown out with the rest. You have to figure that if he remains, he'll have a major say in the choice of head coach. What that means, though, is that the Wilfs may feel obligated to keep Spielman around for that coach's tenure. It would be difficult for me to imagine Spielman choosing a head coach, running another draft, and then getting canned, no matter how badly the team does. If Spielman isn't fired now, he's likely to be here a while.

[CalVike]

If Spielman isn't fired now, he's likely to be here a while.

Good point. If he stays, he stays a long time. They talk about wanting to open the new stadium on a high note. That note should not include Spielman. But I agree it likely will.


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[Pondering Her Percy]

It's a forgone conclusion the Frazier era ends soon, IMHO. Whither Rick Spielman? His best known QB prospects are A.J. Feeley in Miami back in the day and Christian Ponder (his tentacles are also all over a pickup of QB Josh Freeman mid-season, a decision that only hurt the team's ability to rebound from a tough start with so many close losses, in a season when 8-7-1 may win the division). He did draft a Pro Bowl kicker in 2012, also Harrison Smith, little else of note. The Percy Harvin trade looks good so far, with Xavier Rhodes solid. Cordarelle Patterson looks great, but he came at a high price, a 3 and a 4 and a 7 on a team whose depth is so bad that Audie Cole's starting at the MLB is viewed as a positive instead of an unmitigated disaster. The CB decision to ride Josh Robinson was a bust. They needed Antoine Winfield at whatever the cost. Bottom line: this team may set a 53 season high for most points allowed by a defense. Personally, I think all these reasons should cause the team to part ways with the GM immediately.

Edit: correction, an earlier version of this post referred to Jay Feely, a kicker, my bad.


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I'm unsure about this. To be honest...who cares about what he did in Miami. Everyone brings this up. That was close to 10 years ago. You're completely avoiding what he has done very well and have only focused on what "didnt work". Yes you said Harrison Smith but Spieman has done much more than that. Spieman's job is safe and should be safe. Frazier's....not so much. As for the Cole situation....you're acting like thats bad. Cole has been playing very good. Its a good thing that we have found a 7th round pick to contribute

[joe h]

Basically there are 6 holes on offense, and 8-9 holes on defense that need to filled before we can even think about going on a Super Bowl run. We were a QB away when he was promoted. Since then he brings in Mcnabb, ponder, keeps joe Webb around, Cassel and Freeman. How many chances does this idiot get? Easily the worst evaluator of QB talent.

[mossbutt]

Basically there are 6 holes on offense, and 8-9 holes on defense that need to filled before we can even think about going on a Super Bowl run. We were a QB away when he was promoted. Since then he brings in Mcnabb, ponder, keeps joe Webb around, Cassel and Freeman. How many chances does this idiot get? Easily the worst evaluator of QB talent.

There you go. Spielman wouldnt know a good QB if a Ponder pass hit him square in the numbers. Fat chance of that.

[Odlid]

Basically there are 6 holes on offense, and 8-9 holes on defense that need to filled before we can even think about going on a Super Bowl run. We were a QB away when he was promoted. Since then he brings in Mcnabb, ponder, keeps joe Webb around, Cassel and Freeman. How many chances does this idiot get? Easily the worst evaluator of QB talent.

Great point, but I agree with an earlier poster...the Vikes ownership isn't going to fire anyone until their contracts are expired. I even think that Frazier's job is safe.

[Mothman]

Basically there are 6 holes on offense, and 8-9 holes on defense that need to filled before we can even think about going on a Super Bowl run. We were a QB away when he was promoted. Since then he brings in Mcnabb, ponder, keeps joe Webb around, Cassel and Freeman. How many chances does this idiot get? Easily the worst evaluator of QB talent.

They were a lot more than a QB away when Spielman was promoted. He was promoted to GM in 2012.

[lyzarde]

I don't think Spielman should get the axe. And I don't think our depth is that poor either. I think our antiquated schemes and #### play calling setup our players to underperform.

Lets not act like our struggles are due to injury to 1st stringers. We've seen this same #### defense for 5+ years. The offense hasn't been good since Favre (and wasn't good for years before him either).

There has historically been good talent on this team. You're never going to have studs at every position at the same time, no team does. We need coaching that can get the best out of what we have, like the best teams do.

[Mothman]

I don't think Spielman should get the axe. And I don't think our depth is that poor either. I think our antiquated schemes and #### play calling setup our players to underperform.

Lets not act like our struggles are due to injury to 1st stringers. We've seen this same #### defense for 5+ years. The offense hasn't been good since Favre (and wasn't good for years before him either).

There has historically been good talent on this team. You're never going to have studs at every position at the same time, no team does. We need coaching that can get the best out of what we have, like the best teams do.

I think blaming the playcalling and coaching denies the core issue and that IS talent. To my eyes, that seems so evident that I find myself amazed that many people at this point in this dreadful season are still suggesting coaching schemes and playcalling are the main problems. The Twin Cities columnists are all over this obvious issue today:

Jim Souhan:

In a week, the Vikings likely will be looking for a new coach and a franchise quarterback. To get this team back to the playoffs, the brain trust will also need to add a few quality defenders, but only at the positions of defensive line, linebacker, cornerback, safety and coordinator.

The Vikings offense may be one player away.

The Vikings defense needs a squadron — a gaggle, a pride? — plus herding lessons.

The team has allowed an NFL-worst 467 points this year. If the Detroit Lions score 18 points next Sunday at Mall of America Field, the Vikings will break the franchise record for most point allowed — 484 in 1984.

Too often, Vikings defensive backs look like mimes. They make familiar motions but didn’t seem interested in objects.

Safety Harrison Smith is a fine player. Xavier Rhodes, the first-round pick who was injured and did not play Sunday, will be a fine player. Everyone else in the secondary is either a bust or playing above his pay grade.

Former Gopher Marcus Sherels is an overachiever. He should be congratulated for becoming a better player than a second-round pick, Chris Cook, and a third-round pick, Josh Robinson, but his ascendance on the depth chart is an indictment of General Manager Rick Spielman’s roster.

Tom Powers:

This has been a long, stressful season. They are undermanned, frustrated and physically in tatters. For weeks, they've been playing meaningless games. There's no quarterback, the star running back is limping, the coach is on the hot seat and an already subpar defense has burned through defensive backs the way an offensive tackle burns through a beef tenderloin.

Against the Bengals, the Vikings were down to fourth-string running back Joe Banyard, umpteenth-string cornerback Shaun Prater (who also went down) and assorted other scrubs and backups. At some point, Leslie Frazier had to look out at the field and realize he simply did not have enough healthy bodies to make the necessary plays.

"It's been tough now," Frazier said. "I'm not going to sit here and sugarcoat that. Where we are in the secondary, where we were today having to get Joe Banyard up ... We've tried our best to maximize the roster."

But all you can do is all you can do. So they wound up giving up the ghost in Cincinnati. Or perhaps the ghost was knocked out of them. But they were empty vessels on the field, ridiculously overmatched by their opponent and perhaps burdened by the futility of it all.

Think about the kind of players that were on the best Vikings teams and the personnel on the best NFL teams today. If you start comparing player to player, it becomes very clear this Vikings roster just doesn't match up well. It will take much more than coaching and scheme changes to make the Vikes into a Super Bowl contender.

That's my take anyway.

[Webbfann]

Exactly. But tell that to the micromanagers here who want to tinker with EVERYTHING. Spielman may not be great, but evaluating personnel is not an exact science and lemons like Cook will happen. Except for QB and perhaps a couple spots on D, he has done at least average or above. We have good talent on offense at least, and consistently underperform. Its the coaching staff that squanders many chances we have to win games, and they never, ever learn.

I don't think Spielman should get the axe. And I don't think our depth is that poor either. I think our antiquated schemes and #### play calling setup our players to underperform.

Lets not act like our struggles are due to injury to 1st stringers. We've seen this same #### defense for 5+ years. The offense hasn't been good since Favre (and wasn't good for years before him either).

There has historically been good talent on this team. You're never going to have studs at every position at the same time, no team does. We need coaching that can get the best out of what we have, like the best teams do.

[psjordan]

Think about the kind of players that were on the best Vikings teams and the personnel on the best NFL teams today. If you start comparing player to player, it becomes very clear this Vikings roster just doesn't match up well.

In a pure "roster evaluation" process, you'd have to take all the injuries off the table, and in that case I am not sure our talent is as bad as some say.
I would not call for Spielman's head yet. Sure we have completely boogered up the QB situation but honestly in almost all other areas they have hit a few singles and doubles.
Now if you want to get down to "invisible brass tacks", MY take on our "talent on the field" situation boils down to how good are our coaches at A) improving the starters while B) getting backups ready to play.
IMO we are actually not too bad in area B) - I mean we have 5th stringers on defense holding legit top-10 NFL offenses to less than 45 points, which can be seen as a decent accomplishment after all.

However it is in area A), IMPROVING THE STARTERS that I think this coaching staff falls flat on it's face. And the reasons/areas for concern are wide and deep. This staff needs to go.

ps, now OF COURSE if we replaced all of our players with All-Pro or close to it, and they never got hurt, our current staff would probably look wonderful. IMO the onus in the NFL is on the COACHING STAFF to get the players better at what they do. The onus is NOT on the players to make it easy for the coaches to look smart.

[Mothman]

In a pure "roster evaluation" process, you'd have to take all the injuries off the table, and in that case I am not sure our talent is as bad as some say.

I don't think you take the injuries off the table because the roster isn't just the starting roster, it includes the entire depth chart, top to bottom.

ps, now OF COURSE if we replaced all of our players with All-Pro or close to it, and they never got hurt, our current staff would probably look wonderful. IMO the onus in the NFL is on the COACHING STAFF to get the players better at what they do. The onus is NOT on the players to make it easy for the coaches to look smart.

The onus is on the players to perform well and as you know, coaches can only help them to get better. They can't just make them better.Their job is to get the most of the talent available to them but that still brings us back to talent and I just don't believe the talent on this Vikings team stacks up. That doesn't necessarily means Spielman should be fired but I think it's definitely time to ask if he's the right man for the job.

[mondry]

I don't think you take the injuries off the table because the roster isn't just the starting roster, it includes the entire depth chart, top to bottom.

I'm looking around and I just can't seem to find many teams that can go 5-6 corners deep and be okay. Which teams were you talking about that are a good example of having that kind of depth?

I think our depth is fine though, it's our starters that scare me but the good news about that is every upgrade we get at starter, should create better depth. For example, if we draft a stud LB in 1st round, and audie cole goes back to back up with mauti #3 that's not bad depth but the starter just gets a LOT better. If we upgrade the weak side you have new starter + Henderson + Hodges so that's not so bad. CB is hard though because I don't believe cook should be back and if he is I don't think he's good depth anyway!

I'm just not sure it's realistic for a team to be able to compete once both #1 and #2 go down and in some spots like RB and CB it's much worse than that.