Draft Status

[saint33]

Not speaking for Moth here, but in my opinion: because Bridgewater is not Luck or Manning. There have been recent reports that several teams' scouts are not as high on him as the media and that he may not be the 1st QB taken. He's far from a sure bet, especially in his rookie year.

We're a long way away from the draft, and teams haven't even really started to evaluate him. The comments about him were that they didn't like his body, he looks too frail. Once they start to actually evaluate him as a player, I guarantee he will easily be the consensus top QB.

And I'm sick of hearing that he's no "Luck or Manning". Well first of all Manning wasn't even considered a sure fire thing coming out and Ryan Leaf almost was drafted ahead of him. But so what if he's not Andrew Luck. Andrew Luck is a once in a generation prospect, why is he all of a sudden what is expected out of the 1st overall pick? And Bridgewater isn't as far behind him as some people are suggesting. As I've said before, I would rank Bridgewater ahead of Matthew Stafford coming out, who went #1 overall. I'd rank him ahead of Bradford and RG3 as well.

This is my opinion only, I realize this. But in a couple months when we're in the thick of draft season, remember this post.

[saint33]

Perhaps they will but I think they have quite a bit of work to do and while adding Bridgewater might help them make a quick turnaround from a terrible year back to a winning season, I doubt they'll be elite. I'm hard-pressed to think of any QB who was drafted high in the first round and immediately helped a team become elite. I can't even think of an example. Usually, if a team is picking that high, they have enough problems that becoming elite the next season simply isn't a realistic possibility. At the very least, it seems unlikely, hence my doubt.

Who knows if he'll even end up going to the Texans? Heck, at this point, he hasn't said he'll enter the draft, has he?

I view Houston as similar to Kansas City last year. Very talented team, lacking strong coaching, discipline and a QB.

[Texas Vike]

We're a long way away from the draft, and teams haven't even really started to evaluate him. The comments about him were that they didn't like his body, he looks too frail. Once they start to actually evaluate him as a player, I guarantee he will easily be the consensus top QB.

And I'm sick of hearing that he's no "Luck or Manning". Well first of all Manning wasn't even considered a sure fire thing coming out and Ryan Leaf almost was drafted ahead of him. But so what if he's not Andrew Luck. Andrew Luck is a once in a generation prospect, why is he all of a sudden what is expected out of the 1st overall pick? And Bridgewater isn't as far behind him as some people are suggesting. As I've said before, I would rank Bridgewater ahead of Matthew Stafford coming out, who went #1 overall. I'd rank him ahead of Bradford and RG3 as well.

This is my opinion only, I realize this. But in a couple months when we're in the thick of draft season, remember this post.

Scouts have also questioned the lowly competition he's faced. Look, I have nothing against the guy and truthfully I haven't seen him play too much. I just don't get the sense that he's going to turn a 2-14 team into a SB contender like you're arguing. But I'm no expert and I don't work for the Vikings FO, so don't get too worked up about my opinion or slighting of a prospect you're clearly fond of.

[NextQuestion]

Race card gets played out so much in the NFL. Eric Decker was getting comparisons to Ed McCaffrey when he started to play for Denver. Cole Beasley, the slot WR for Dallas...who does he get compared to? Not Percy Harvin, but Wes Welker.

Geno was a good QB in college and people immediately are doing the race card towards Bridgewater. We won't get him, but I love Manziel's approach. I don't care if the dude parties it up as long as he's not getting DUIs and plays well on the field.

[Reignman]

I think we can go ahead and put Houston on the clock now. Maybe they do need a new QB. Keenum is consistently inconsistent.

[PurpleHalo]

His brother was pretty bad so the blood lines are a huge negative imo. Huge reach above the 3rd round.

You can't compare him and his brother. The only thing they for sure have in common is the same parents.

[Texas Vike]

You can't compare him and his brother. The only thing they for sure have in common is the same parents.

… which implies that they share lots of DNA. Additionally, their models, the people they imitated from early in life are the same (i.e. their parents), so both biologically and environmental / educational-wise (nature and nurture) they are very, very similar.

All that said, I'd be concerned more by the types of passes he's making at Fresno. Can he make the jump to the NFL? Those stats don't really tell an objective story.

Watch Bridgewater play too: slow release, big loopy throws to WRs that are extremely wide open or that his receivers go up and make plays on (over 3rd tier D backs in that weak conference). He is said to be a great leader and very high character, but I don't see a strong arm and I don't see too many passes that translate to the NFL. I certainly don't see him facing high level competition consistently. I fear the NFL will be a rude awakening.

I hope we end up in the 5-10 area and are able to take Manziel. Plan B for me? Take a LB like CJ Mosley, Barr, Mack in the 1st and a Mettenberger or Aaron Murray in the 2nd.

[Mothman]

… which implies that they share lots of DNA. Additionally, their models, the people they imitated from early in life are the same (i.e. their parents), so both biologically and environmental / educational-wise (nature and nurture) they are very, very similar.

That common background is bound to have an influence, although I've known brothers who were dramatically different from one another in terms of personality, demeanor, interests, etc. The bottom line is that they're each their own person and Derek needs to be evaluated accordingly. His NFL career may end being very different from his brother's. Consider the Mannings, they've both been successful pros but they're pretty different quarterbacks. Matt Hasselbeck certainly had a different NFL career (and a great deal more success as a pro) than his younger brother Tim.

Watch Bridgewater play too: slow release, big loopy throws to WRs that are extremely wide open or that his receivers go up and make plays on (over 3rd tier D backs in that weak conference). He is said to be a great leader and very high character, but I don't see a strong arm and I don't see too many passes that translate to the NFL. I certainly don't see him facing high level competition consistently. I fear the NFL will be a rude awakening.

I'd certainly be cautious about investing the first or second pick in the draft in him.

[VikingLord]

A lot of mocks that I have read are predicting the Vikes to take Derek Carr from Fresno. They say he might be available at the 6th pick. 4500 yds passing, 45 TDs and only 5 ints. Might work.

I like Carr a lot. In fact, the more I watch him, the more I like what he brings. He's not a mobile guy at all, so he's going to be a pocket passer in the NFL, which I think will benefit him provided he gets decent protection and has a competent running game. He's got a great arm. His deep throws are usually on ropes and don't spend much time in the air. He is extremely accurate at all levels of the field, and you can see how he reads his progressions and doesn't lock onto a single receiver.

Knocks on Carr are his footwork and level of competition. As far as the footwork criticism goes, I can see it, but it's also clear he can get away with it. Most guys need a solid base to throw accurately, but some guys just have the arm talent and coordination to do it from a variety of positions, and Carr is one of those guys. It just doesn't seem to impact his accuracy, so I'm less worried about it. The guy can clearly hit his targets.

As for level of competition, Carr can only play the teams on his schedule. The thing that jumps out in this regard to me is how Carr spreads the ball around and utilizes all his weapons. He's not just leaning heavily on a single receiver to bail him out or who presents a clear mismatch he can take advantage of. Obviously, this isn't something that can be predicted in the pros, but I think Carr has the ability to play at a high level against the best once he gets some experience.

I actually like Carr more than Manziel. Carr is bigger, has a stronger arm, and is going to develop into a pure pocket passer in the pros. His ability to throw downfield accurately will play very well off AD's ability to force defenses to stack up against the run. Carr is likely to be the 2nd QB off the board this year and I could see him going as high as 3rd barring some unforeseen developments during the offseason, so to have a realistic shot at him the Vikings pretty much need to lose the rest of their games.

[Texas Vike]

That common background is bound to have an influence, although I've known brothers who were dramatically different from one another in terms of personality, demeanor, interests, etc. The bottom line is that they're each their own person and Derek needs to be evaluated accordingly. His NFL career may end being very different from his brother's. Consider the Mannings, they've both been successful pros but they're pretty different quarterbacks. Matt Hasselbeck certainly had a different NFL career (and a great deal more success as a pro) than his younger brother Tim.

Watch the first minute or so of this video, in which Derek explains that watching his brother lose key games at Fresno St. left an indelible mark "in his heart" and was the deciding factor in his choice of where to play college ball: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNmGSjaPCWI

You're right that some brothers are dramatically different from one another. This case appears to not be one of those instances though. Every individual is his own person, no doubt, but this "pedigree" stuff is worth considering, especially at something as elusive and difficult to predict as QB success in the NFL.

I'd certainly be cautious about investing the first or second pick in the draft in him.

Me too. I don't think he's a lock. I don't think we should tank for him. The QBs in this draft class look less impressive than they once did. We definitely need to draft one in the first few rounds, but we have huge holes on D too so maybe we need to be patient w/ this rebuilding procedure. That's hard to stomach, but it might be the wisest way forward.

[Mothman]

You're right that some brothers are dramatically different from one another. This case appears to not be one of those instances though. Every individual is his own person, no doubt, but this "pedigree" stuff is worth considering, especially at something as elusive and difficult to predict as QB success in the NFL.

Thanks for the link.

I see the value in considering "pedigree" but for me, it's just pretty far down the list of considerations. However, I think it could be useful if there are physical issues brothers might have in common (like a genetic predisposition to certain types of injuries) or if there is a significant history of character issues and concerns within the family. Overall, though, I think a guy like Derek Carr should just be evaluated on his own merits.

Me too. I don't think he's a lock. I don't think we should tank for him.

I don't think they should tank for anybody. For me, all this talk about intentionally losing games has been almost the worst part about the losing seasons the Vikes have had in the past few years. I absolutely hate it.

The QBs in this draft class look less impressive than they once did. We definitely need to draft one in the first few rounds, but we have huge holes on D too so maybe we need to be patient w/ this rebuilding procedure. That's hard to stomach, but it might be the wisest way forward.

I think so. After all, the idea is to build a championship team. They'll need the right QB to do that but they will need the other parts of the team too.

[S197]

Carr has a good arm and that's really where it might end. I don't know how many have actually seen Fresno play but those stats are really padded by the system. They don't even run the ball, they throw a ton of receiver screens which ups his stats. I saw him play in person and he didn't pass the eye test for me. Intriguing as a mid round prospect but nothing screams 1st rounder to me.

[saint33]

Carr has a good arm and that's really where it might end. I don't know how many have actually seen Fresno play but those stats are really padded by the system. They don't even run the ball, they throw a ton of receiver screens which ups his stats. I saw him play in person and he didn't pass the eye test for me. Intriguing as a mid round prospect but nothing screams 1st rounder to me.

I completely agree with this, I've never really understood the hype that's been building around him. His footwork is a serious issue, and the system he comes from does nothing to show his abilities to be a pocket passer. We're still a ways away from the actual start of the draft process, and once we get to that point, I think once his game is under more scrutiny, the hype is going to fall off quickly. Kind of like Matt Barkley last year, who at this time in the season was still being considered as a top 10 pick.

[HardcoreVikesFan]

It appears that Brent Hundley is going to probably declare for the draft. If he does, this will cause a major shake up at the top of the draft. I wouldn't mind drafting Hundley. However, Hundley will NEED to sit a year before you throw him to the dogs. He is just too young to start from the get go.

[Demi]

After Cam, RGIII, Russell Wilson, Luck, Foles...we still need to give guys time? Start a McNabb for a season? We're going to roll the franchise dice on a player who isn't even ready to play when he enters the NFL?

No thanks.

Or we will be right where we have been for the last decade and more...