What's your initial feeling on the Vikings signing Freeman?

[Mothman]

Absolutely. Think about it. Frazier will be expected to work Freeman in, which will require either extra effort on everyone's part or suck reps away from whoever is supposed to start that week. His presence forces them to cut a developmental prospect in MBT. It disrupts the QB's currently on the roster and makes them question their real status.

I'd say cutting one developmental prospect for a much more talented one is a plus and I suspect Cassel and Ponder already had a pretty clear grasp on their status. Ponder had to be aware that he was on increasingly shaky ground and Cassel has known from day one that he was brought in to be a backup. His contract is structured accordingly. I think it really becomes a question of how the Vikes choose to manage the situation. The (very reasonable) assumption is they will get Freeman playing in a meaningful games as soon as possible. Considering the general opinion of Ponder, nobody should have a problem with it if they choose to bench him. It's what most fans have been demanding anyway. That makes it a question of Cassel or Freeman and Cassel's in a great position to make his case. He's almost certainly going to start on Sunday and if he excels, it will give him a good chance to continue starting. Overall, it's a manageable situation as long as Frazier is given the latitude to manage it. If Cassel ends up playing really well and the team is winning, Frazier shouldn't be forced into making a change purely for the sake of evaluating Freeman in games.

I am not in favor of Spielman making any more moves at QB. He has really missed at this position so far and this move doesn't inspire confidence in my view. I may be in the minority, but what Spielman needed to do was take his full dose of Ponder medicine this season and give Ponder and Frazier the latitude to completely rule Ponder in or out of the future equation.He then should have hired a proven QB evaluator, gone into the draft, and done whatever it took to move wherever he needed to get a guy who could come in and have a real chance of succeeding.

You're basically criticizing Spielman for events that have yet to actually transpire. This move may not inspire confidence but we haven't seen any results from it yet and we have no idea if it will have any impact on next year's draft at all.

They still have the latitude to rule Ponder in or out of the equation and I can't imagine why any GM should have to "take his medicine" as you suggest. Is that supposed to some sort of retribution for drafting the wrong QB?

Spielman's missed with the one QB he drafted after Childress left and with a few undrafted FAs (and despite rare exceptions, they usually don't amount to much anyway). McNabb was Frazier's idea and Spielman was supposedly talked into that move when the Wilfs were still using a management by committee approach. Signing Cassel as a backup doesn't seem like a bad move at all. It's already helped them get a win. I don't think Spielman has had enough swings to have many misses at QB yet. Seeking the advice of a proven QB talent evaluator is a very good idea but when it comes to Freeman, I think ol' Rick is being a smart, responsible GM. A former first round pick who is just 25 years old and has had a couple very productive seasons as a pro became available at an easily affordable price. Considering the Vikes QB situation, it would have been borderline irresponsible not to explore that Freeman can help the team.

[im4mnvikes]

Leslie Frazier really wasn't in favor of bringing Josh Freeman in. This is Rick Spielman and the owner who overruled the head coach and said, 'No, we've kind of figured out what Christian Ponder is. We want to see what Josh Freeman can bring this team.

[/quote]

Hmmm, I wonder who new "Vikings insider" Shaun King's source is...

Maybe Frazier didn't want Freeman. I'll admit, when I heard about the deal one of the first things it brought to mind was the Herschel Walker trade, another situation in which a coach was suddenly provided/saddled with a high profile player several games into a season. It's not an encouraging comparison to consider and there aren't that many parallels but the current situation has the potential to be disruptive and it's the type of thing that can be difficult for a head coach to navigate.[/quote]

Absolutely. Think about it. Frazier will be expected to work Freeman in, which will require either extra effort on everyone's part or suck reps away from whoever is supposed to start that week. His presence forces them to cut a developmental prospect in MBT. It disrupts the QB's currently on the roster and makes them question their real status.

I am not in favor of Spielman making any more moves at QB. He has really missed at this position so far and this move doesn't inspire confidence in my view. I may be in the minority, but what Spielman needed to do was take his full dose of Ponder medicine this season and give Ponder and Frazier the latitude to completely rule Ponder in or out of the future equation. He then should have hired a proven QB evaluator, gone into the draft, and done whatever it took to move wherever he needed to get a guy who could come in and have a real chance of succeeding.[/quote]


What latitude did you want to see. Ponder is not the only reason we are 1-3, but he has not looked comfortable in any of the games. He has not made plays on 3rd down and kept our defense off the field. Cassel at least looked sure of himself and fired the ball to the receivers and hit them in stride so they could run after the catch. There is no magic solution but Ponder does not look in command of running the offense, We look like the little men from electric football when he is at QB.

[Mothman]

I just think it's another desperation move.

It's a desperate situation. Unless you believe Ponder or Cassel were going to solve the problem, the Vikes had no QB of the future. A potential option presented itself. It's nota poor choice to explore it. They didn't commit years and megabucks to Freeman. They're exploring an option.

The Wilfs made Rick the GM, and now it's time for Rick to step away from the controls when it comes to evaluating QBs and hire someone who knows how to do it and has a good track record. This Freeman thing is highly likely to flame out well before the end of this season, so I still think the QB position is going to be hot going into the offseason. Hopefully by that time the Wilfs will have seen the results to the point where they take the keys away from Rick, at least as far as QB is concerned.

You're judging the move like a.) you know exactly how it will pan out and b.) like you know Spielman expects Freeman to solve all of the Vikings QB problems.

[Mothman]

Honestly I think you're incredibly over reacting and have a pretty unrealistic take on how a football team operates. "Sorry Rick, you're my guy but I'm going to bring in this other guy just to pick the quarter back next time" said no owner ever.

Maybe Rick takes it into his own hands to find help but even that seems really strange to me.

That's essentially what he does with his scouts so it wouldn't be that strange for him to seek another point of view. But if there's an expert out there with an unfailing eye for QB talent that will succeed in the NFL, you'd think he'd be a household name by now. He would certainly be in high demand!

[S197]

Not sure if this has been posted already, but figured I'd share it anyway.

If this is true, things could get very interesting.

King might just be trying to put all the pieces together (i.e. speculating) because a lot of it doesn't make a whole lot of sense right now. Frazier continues to say that Ponder remains the starter yet Freeman signs here over 10 other teams in a "prove it" contract. The only way to prove yourself is to get on the field, how do you do that with Ponder as the starter? Surely there must have been an understanding or at least strong indication that Freeman would get his shot. My understanding of the dysfunctional "triangle of authority" is that Spielman brings in the players, Frazier sets the depth chart, and the Wilfs have final say over the coaching staff (in terms of hired/fired). If Frazier wasn't in favor of bringing Freeman in, that really isn't his authority anyway. But now that he's here, I don't think he needs to play the kid either. Of course, if your boss wants the guy to play, it wouldn't exactly be a smart move to disagree especially with your job on the line.

I can't wait to see how this all plays out.

[yezzir]

Brees didn't develop fast enough for the Charger's GM, so they drafted Rivers. You are correct on that.

But, after the Chargers drafted Rivers, Rivers held out and Brees tore it up. Tore it up so much so that the following year the Chargers used their Franchise Tag on him to ensure they'd get at least 2 1st rounders if someone signed him, and Brees continued to excel the following year with the Chargers. It was the shoulder injury and the fact the Chargers had Rivers that resulted in the "don't need him" contract offer.

But that isn't really relevant to Josh Freeman's situation. Freeman is a guy who steadily performed worse as time went on and whose team just basically cut him for nothing.
I'll give you that franchise QB's move around from time to time, but how many of those are moved without compensation to the team moving them?

All I will say is Freeman is no Brees. He's not a Cutler. He's not even a late-model Favre. As he sits today he's probably worse overall than Ponder, but with a bigger arm and from what I understand a better penchant to take advantage of AD's ability to draw defenses up. If Freeman can somehow get it together and become what would amount to the QB equivalent of when the Vikings nabbed Cris Carter, that would be spectacular. I really hope that is what happens. I just don't think it will. I don't think it's even remotely likely.

As he sits today he's probably worse overall than Ponder

WHAT?!?!?!

[Purple bruise]

Just so the Vikings start a winning streak, starting Sunday, I could not care less who is playing QB.

[Webbfann]

Ponder had to be aware that he was on increasingly shaky ground and Cassel has known from day one that he was brought in to be a backup. His contract is structured accordingly.

In what way? I haven't seen the structure of his contract so I'm very curious. I would expect that Cassel had been told he's not the starter unless Ponder fails, not that he's a backup under all circumstances. Like Freeman, I'd expect Cassel signed with us because he thought his chances of starting before the season is over were good.

[mondry]

That's essentially what he does with his scouts so it wouldn't be that strange for him to seek another point of view. But if there's an expert out there with an unfailing eye for QB talent that will succeed in the NFL, you'd think he'd be a household name by now. He would certainly be in high demand!

Yeah, you said it better than I did but that's pretty much what I meant. Of course he has his own draft guys for extra opinions, I just meant going out and finding this so called QB whisperer that's just out there waiting for teams to let him work his magic lol.

[Demi]

I can't wait to see how this all plays out.

I can. What a freaking dysfunctional mess.

I can't wait until we have a damn GM who has the authority to hire and fire coaches and get this thing running right. Instead of a shyster new jersey know nothing almost-gangster business man who has final say on the head coach....

[Just Me]

But now that he's here, I don't think he needs to play the kid either. Of course, if your boss wants the guy to play, it wouldn't exactly be a smart move to disagree especially with your job on the line.

I can't wait to see how this all plays out.

The only analogy I can draw is that Childress was within his job description and authority also, when he cut Moss, but we all saw how that eventually worked out...

[Webbfann]

I agree its a dysfunctional mess. I'm afraid to see it play out but also want it to be over ASAP. Especially this Sunday.

I can. What a freaking dysfunctional mess.

I can't wait until we have a damn GM who has the authority to hire and fire coaches and get this thing running right. Instead of a shyster new jersey know nothing almost-gangster business man who has final say on the head coach....

[Reignman]

It fits perfectly with Leslie's milquetoast demeanor.

And with that a new nickname is born.

Hey guys, do you think Milquetoast watched enough film during the bye to get the defensive woes shored up? I wonder if Freeman will respond better playing for a coach like Milquetoast than he did a hot-head like Schiano.

[yezzir]

I can. What a freaking dysfunctional mess.

I can't wait until we have a damn GM who has the authority to hire and fire coaches and get this thing running right. Instead of a shyster new jersey know nothing almost-gangster business man who has final say on the head coach....

Other than drafting Ponder, Spielman has done an awesome job so far as our GM.

[VikingLord]

Other than drafting Ponder, Spielman has done an awesome job so far as our GM.

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