What's your initial feeling on the Vikings signing Freeman?

[VikingLord]

What about Drew Brees? He was brought in to be San Diego's franchise QB but things didn't go so well and they let him walk. Now he's in NO and it's safe to say that he is the franchise player over there. He has a ring and San Diego has yet to win one. So I think its safe to say not all teams know a good QB when they have one.

In our case we are still to inept to draft a quality QB. However, Freeman and Ponder are around the same age. Freeman seems to have more signs of progression than Ponder. So Freeman could potentially be the guy, seeing as he is still young and still has time to improve.

Brees was a consistent performer prior to having his shoulder injured, which is what mainly cast his future with the Chargers in doubt. The Chargers also had Rivers waiting in the wings and were high on his ability, and despite that they still offered Brees a deal, albeit one with less guaranteed money and more incentives than Brees wanted. Brees was able to find a team that would offer him more guaranteed money and he took that. So it's not like San Diego just let him walk, nor was Brees seriously sucking or slacking off prior to the move.

[mondry]

OK, players don't like the coach. Does that justify one particular player missing the team photo? Supposedly being put into the league's substance abuse policy? Throwing 2x the number of picks per game as TDs over the last couple of games? For a guy in a contract year at the league's most valuable position?

His building lost power and reset his alarm clock so he over slept, sucks but not a big deal.

He's a stage 1 participant in the leagues drug program. He has a "temporary-use" exemption for the prescription drug Adderall to treat ADHD. However, he accidentally took Ritalin instead one time, both substances are normally flagged for other players but the league has allowed him to use Adderall but not Ritalin.

Here is what Freeman had to say about it.

"... [T]o assure everyone that the error was a one-time mistake, I agreed to be voluntarily tested in the 'NFL Program,' " Freeman said in the statement.

"Since that time, I have taken and passed all 46 drug tests I've been given, which test for every drug and banned substance imaginable," Freeman said. "I agreed to allow such testing to be done at my workplace [team facility] because I spend all of my time there and I have nothing whatsoever to hide or be embarrassed about."

"Unfortunately, it appears that some people who may have noticed the testing at my workplace have made hurtful and incorrect assumptions and chosen to disseminate inaccurate and very disturbing information," Freeman said.

The leak is being probed by the NFL now, should it be Schiano he'll be in a lot of trouble. He's passed 46 drug tests in a row, I'm willing to take his word for it that it was the one time mistake with his prescription. The reality is, he likely failed that test years ago and has been clean for quite a while given how many tests he's passed now.

As for the picks, just do some research on the Bucs offense, it's been posted around the threads and covered quite well. Basically it boils down to big 10 run game with shots down the field and not much else. They're averaging 11 points per game, 31st in the league so only the Jaguars are worse at 10.2. In Glennon's only game they put up 10 points and he threw 1 Td to 2 picks as well so clearly it's early in his career but he hasn't helped. The Giants are 30th with 16.4 PPG so you can see that's quite a significant difference for only being one spot worse. It's a horrible scheme to play in, and once they go 0-16 with Glennon there won't really be any thing else to say about it.

[mondry]

Brees was a consistent performer prior to having his shoulder injured, which is what mainly cast his future with the Chargers in doubt. The Chargers also had Rivers waiting in the wings and were high on his ability, and despite that they still offered Brees a deal, albeit one with less guaranteed money and more incentives than Brees wanted. Brees was able to find a team that would offer him more guaranteed money and he took that. So it's not like San Diego just let him walk, nor was Brees seriously sucking or slacking off prior to the move.

Yeah, the Brees example is really quite different. Not a great example.

[King James]

What about Jay Cutler then? He seems to be the franchise in Chicago.

[BleedingPurple]

I know people are high on Freeman. I think overall he has some great potential. Unfortunately, we are a run team, on the backs of one of the greatest ever. Having watched the progression of schemes against AD it has become quite clear that teams are willing to completely sell out to stop AD.

The thing that upset me the most is how much Ponder has killed our run game. It became a win-win to put 8+ in the box against him. His reads, lack of audibles or barred from making and painfully slow release timing makes it a no-brainer. In one game Cassel was 7 for 10 with a TD against 8 in the box, didn't look uncomfortable making a quick choice, audibled to exploit the d-formation on a run sell out. It seemed magically that AD was finally getting the 5-7 yard pops of old instead of the litany of negative rushes he'd been piling up at the start of the year.

My Predictions:
Carolina:
1) AD runs for 200+
2) Cassel looks ok with good but not great numbers
3) Our time of possession goes way up and our defense miraculously better (I'm calling 34+)

AVG Time of Poss 2013
(3) Carolina - 32:49
(29) MN - 26:57

After Carolina:
4) They bench Cassel for next game and people are ok with it because they believe Freeman could be the future
5) AD runs for ~100 yrds with lots of negative runs
6) Freeman looks ok, but the crucial 8 in the box numbers are horrible
7) Our Time of possession goes back down, our defense looks bad again
8 ) Everyone says the problem is our defense and O-line

The real answer is getting AD the looks he needs to be great. It's not about the best QB, it's about winning the 8+ in the box battle, the area that is Freeman's weakest. Cassel is the answer (for now), not because he's great but because his strength is what we need to open AD up and everything else succeeds on the back of it. Our D is rested, Our O is confident and the defenses are left wondering what they can do. Freeman will allow them to continue to sell out because if you can't act quick enough to stop it nothing else matters. Try to throw all the deep balls you want with 3 guys in your face it just doesn't work.

P.S. I think it's pretty stupid, if Ponder is really hurt to release MBT. So if Cassel gets hurt this weekend, we have injured and uninitiated QBs on the bench, respectively. They should have kept him at least another week, or just cut Ponder (my choice). You can bet SF wouldn't have picked him up.

[Webbfann]

I concur with this Hall of Fame Prediction. Team benches the only QB who gets us Ws, and the Ls start piling up. People will scream that C sucks when he makes one mistake, and will scream that F just needs more time after several disappointing losses. All threads we thought were behind us are rehashed with the F-word replacing the P-word. Hope I'm wrong, would love to be wrong. Sweet Purple Jesus let me be wrong.

I know people are high on Freeman. I think overall he has some great potential. Unfortunately, we are a run team, on the backs of one of the greatest ever. Having watched the progression of schemes against AD it has become quite clear that teams are willing to completely sell out to stop AD.

The thing that upset me the most is how much Ponder has killed our run game. It became a win-win to put 8+ in the box against him. His reads, lack of audibles or barred from making and painfully slow release timing makes it a no-brainer. In one game Cassel was 7 for 10 with a TD against 8 in the box, didn't look uncomfortable making a quick choice, audibled to exploit the d-formation on a run sell out. It seemed magically that AD was finally getting the 5-7 yard pops of old instead of the litany of negative rushes he'd been piling up at the start of the year.

My Predictions:
Carolina:
1) AD runs for 200+
2) Cassel looks ok with good but not great numbers
3) Our time of possession goes way up and our defense miraculously better (I'm calling 34+)

AVG Time of Poss 2013
(3) Carolina - 32:49
(29) MN - 26:57

After Carolina:
4) They bench Cassel for next game and people are ok with it because they believe Freeman could be the future
5) AD runs for ~100 yrds with lots of negative runs
6) Freeman looks ok, but the crucial 8 in the box numbers are horrible
7) Our Time of possession goes back down, our defense looks bad again
8 ) Everyone says the problem is our defense and O-line

The real answer is getting AD the looks he needs to be great. It's not about the best QB, it's about winning the 8+ in the box battle, the area that is Freeman's weakest. Cassel is the answer (for now), not because he's great but because his strength is what we need to open AD up and everything else succeeds on the back of it. Our D is rested, Our O is confident and the defenses are left wondering what they can do. Freeman will allow them to continue to sell out because if you can't act quick enough to stop it nothing else matters. Try to throw all the deep balls you want with 3 guys in your face it just doesn't work.

P.S. I think it's pretty stupid, if Ponder is really hurt to release MBT. So if Cassel gets hurt this weekend, we have injured and uninitiated QBs on the bench, respectively. They should have kept him at least another week, or just cut Ponder (my choice). You can bet SF wouldn't have picked him up.

[Just Me]

I concur with this Hall of Fame Prediction. Team benches the only QB who gets us Ws, and the Ls start piling up. People will scream that C sucks when he makes one mistake, and will scream that F just needs more time after several disappointing losses. All threads we thought were behind us are rehashed with the F-word replacing the P-word. Hope I'm wrong, would love to be wrong. Sweet Purple Jesus let me be wrong.

Basically, you're saying that Cassel is the guy, and should be for the foreseeable future. In an alternate universe, suppose Cassel turns in more mediocre numbers next week (more in line with his career average) and the Vikings put up another loss (let's say 31-33 for argument's sake). Do we "all scream" that we need to give Cassel more time?

I actually think there's some merit to the previous analysis (I don't agree that another team wouldn't have picked up Ponder if we had cut him, but I wouldn't lose sleep over that, in any case), but maybe Cassel is better facing a stacked front. His experience may make him the best QB for now. So here are the coaching staff's options (as of now) as I see them.

1) Cassel is the guy. Play the "hot hand" until he starts turning in multiple bad performances.
2) Freeman is the guy as soon as he is even close to grasping the offense
3) Ponder was, and still remains, the guy


I honestly don't see #3 as a realistic option at this point. Can't rule it out because I'm not Frazier, but that would be the most surprising outcome of all the scenarios.

I do think they will try to see what Freeman has. This is where I believe the team should go. We could play Cassel for the remainder of the season. I still believe it's highly unlikely we make the playoffs at this point and I'd rather know at season's end what I truly have in the QB dept so I can draft accordingly. If Freeman actually gets us to the playoffs (again, I doubt it) then we get a bonus. If not, we have a body of games to evaluate his future with us.

They could play the "luke-warm hand" and stay with Cassel, and he may indeed give us the best chance to win games. If we go 9-7 I think I would be pleasantly surprised, and I still don't think that will get us a playoff spot.

[maembe]

Brees was a consistent performer prior to having his shoulder injured, which is what mainly cast his future with the Chargers in doubt. The Chargers also had Rivers waiting in the wings and were high on his ability, and despite that they still offered Brees a deal, albeit one with less guaranteed money and more incentives than Brees wanted. Brees was able to find a team that would offer him more guaranteed money and he took that. So it's not like San Diego just let him walk, nor was Brees seriously sucking or slacking off prior to the move.

Statistically they were pretty similar in the three years before they were released:
Freeman: 68t-45i 11108yds - Brees: 62t-37i 8843yds
However, you're definitely correct in saying that the situation is very different in the SD didn't just let Brees walk.

[mansquatch]

The fact Cassel is taking all 1st team reps tells the story IMO. He is starting.


A question: Why do people think Freeman will be bad against 8 in the box?

[dead_poet]

A question: Why do people think Freeman will be bad against 8 in the box?

Because that's what he's faced all season long and his performance has been as bad or worse than Ponder's.

[mansquatch]

Fair enough, I just didn't know.

[dead_poet]

16.3: The percentage of carries (52 of 319) in which Bucs running back Doug Martin faced eight or more defenders in the box while rushing for 1,454 yards a year ago. That, according to ProFootballFocus.com, ranked 27th in the league among backs with at least 100 carries. Peterson ranked third at 34.5 percent (120 of 348).

That was last year. This year is about the same according to PFF

Show me the stat for this year. I've watched a few Bucs games and while Martin's blocking has a lot to do with his production, he's faced a ton of stacked boxes.

[mansquatch]

You are wrong about Cutler. When Jash McDaniels came to Denver Cutler had one of his emo fits and basically demanded a trade because he didn't like the new direction. The fans loathed him so much they started wearing baby bonnets to games and started calling him Crybaby Cutler.

[Webbfann]

Yes, based on my small sample size of one game I think Cassel is our best chance to win over the rest of this season, which I have not given up on. If I had, be here. I think the best way to keep Freeman around is to let him play some, but not too much, unless Cassel stinks horribly. Maybe he can learn something from Cassel too; lord knows Ponder could, if he were willing. We have to play Freeman some this year, I don't think there is any way around that since he's on a 1 year contract. But I think he should be used judiciously, in a way that lets us evaluate him without ruining our chances to win if we are winning with Cassel.

Basically, you're saying that Cassel is the guy, and should be for the foreseeable future. In an alternate universe, suppose Cassel turns in more mediocre numbers next week (more in line with his career average) and the Vikings put up another loss (let's say 31-33 for argument's sake). Do we "all scream" that we need to give Cassel more time?

I actually think there's some merit to the previous analysis (I don't agree that another team wouldn't have picked up Ponder if we had cut him, but I wouldn't lose sleep over that, in any case), but maybe Cassel is better facing a stacked front. His experience may make him the best QB for now. So here are the coaching staff's options (as of now) as I see them.

1) Cassel is the guy. Play the "hot hand" until he starts turning in multiple bad performances.
2) Freeman is the guy as soon as he is even close to grasping the offense
3) Ponder was, and still remains, the guy


I honestly don't see #3 as a realistic option at this point. Can't rule it out because I'm not Frazier, but that would be the most surprising outcome of all the scenarios.

I do think they will try to see what Freeman has. This is where I believe the team should go. We could play Cassel for the remainder of the season. I still believe it's highly unlikely we make the playoffs at this point and I'd rather know at season's end what I truly have in the QB dept so I can draft accordingly. If Freeman actually gets us to the playoffs (again, I doubt it) then we get a bonus. If not, we have a body of games to evaluate his future with us.

They could play the "luke-warm hand" and stay with Cassel, and he may indeed give us the best chance to win games. If we go 9-7 I think I would be pleasantly surprised, and I still don't think that will get us a playoff spot.

[Mothman]

I think San Diego absolutely let Brees walk. A.J. Smith gave up on him too quickly, drafted Rivers to replace him and was then surprised when an ultra-motivated Brees kicked a** and played great. However, Brees injured his shoulder, Smith lowballed him on a contract offer and chose not to use one of the tags (franchise or transition) that could have allowed San Diego to keep Brees by matching any offers he received. The concern about the shoulder was understandable, but they let him walk. It's hard to consider the contract offer they made a sincere effort to keep him. He obviously didn't think it was...

Is Freeman a franchise QB? Who knows? The Vikes clearly just want to take a close look and decide for themselves. The consternation over that move really surprises me because it's such a low-risk/high reward choice. The only real potential harm is that it could hurt their already slim playoff chances and since I doubt any Vikes fans sincerely believed Ponder or Cassel would be starting for the team in this season's Super Bowl, what is the harm in exploring this option?