What's your initial feeling on the Vikings signing Freeman?

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Your initial thoughts on the Freeman signing?

Freeman can be the franchise QB we've been looking for.
11
11%
I'm hopeful, but don't know if Freeman can be the guy.
37
36%
Won't say its good or bad. Will wait and see how things play out.
30
29%
Freeman irrelevant. Likely won't play in 2013 and will be gone in 2014.
1
1%
Bad. His presence will distract Cassel and Ponder from playing well.
1
1%
Awful move, Vikes will make him our franchise and he will fail
10
10%
Putting anyone on the field other than Ponder is a mistake
5
5%
Other
8
8%
 
Total votes: 103

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Mothman
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Re: What's your initial feeling on the Vikings signing Freem

Post by Mothman »

dead_poet wrote:That is a good read. Thanks. Though, it's hard not to want the guy to look at Ponder and see if he'd come to the same conclusion "It's not all on Ponder." (which, you know, it isn't.)

This sounded awfully familiar:
Yes, it did but as you know, all of that stuff is pretty typical of young, developing quarterbacks.

There's so much to consider when evaluating these guys that it's easy to see why it's such an inexact science. I still wonder if Ponder scrambles early at times and fails to see all of his options because his protection was so poor in his first season that his internal clock never re-set. It's so easy to develop bad habits and can be so hard to break them. When he gets comfortable, I still think he looks like a good quarterback but he doesn't react to pressure well and that, of course, is why teams pressure quarterbacks, especially young quarterbacks. When rushed, most of them don't tend to make the same decisions a Brees or Peyton Manning would make. They quickly fall back on athleticism, their mechanics break down, etc.

It certainly sounds like the Bucs offensive scheme wasn't doing Freeman any favors.

One of the things I found interesting about it had nothing to do with Freeman. It was the way the first play Prisco presents in still shots illustrated just how deceptive those shots can be. If most of us here had looked at that first shot without knowing what eventually happened, I doubt many would predict an INT by Jenkins as the result of the play.
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Re: What's your initial feeling on the Vikings signing Freem

Post by mondry »

John_Viveiros wrote: Thanks for the stats. I read them A LOT differently than you do. The only thing they are comparable in that concerns me is interception percentage. Otherwise, to me, 43 yards per game is a huge difference. We're talking an extra first down every quarter. And Freeman basically throws half again (50% more) TD's than Ponder - he gets his teams in the end zone with his throws. I'm more sold on him now that you've posted this.
Yeah, and the yards per attempt means he's going down field a bit more while basically having 1% less completion rate. The stats when put together aren't really whats intriguing about Josh anyway. It's the two big years he's had where he was a probowl QB combined with his unlimited upside. Of course the other story is harnessing all that ability and manifesting it into a consistent QB. In that way he's similar to Ponder, but the big difference is he HAS been good, (REAL GOOD even) has the tools / upside, and the potential to actually be a franchise guy.
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Re: What's your initial feeling on the Vikings signing Freem

Post by King James »

Well it seems like the Vikings finally got their initial franchise guy they wanted in 2009. I mean after all, the only reason we drafted Harvin because the Bucs got to Freeman first right?
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Re: What's your initial feeling on the Vikings signing Freem

Post by mondry »

Mothman wrote: Yes, it did but as you know, all of that stuff is pretty typical of young, developing quarterbacks.

There's so much to consider when evaluating these guys that it's easy to see why it's such an inexact science. I still wonder if Ponder scrambles early at times and fails to see all of his options because his protection was so poor in his first season that his internal clock never re-set. It's so easy to develop bad habits and can be so hard to break them. When he gets comfortable, I still think he looks like a good quarterback but he doesn't react to pressure well and that, of course, is why teams pressure quarterbacks, especially young quarterbacks. When rushed, most of them don't tend to make the same decisions a Brees or Peyton Manning would make. They quickly fall back on athleticism, their mechanics break down, etc.

It certainly sounds like the Bucs offensive scheme wasn't doing Freeman any favors.

One of the things I found interesting about it had nothing to do with Freeman. It was the way the first play Prisco presents in still shots illustrated just how deceptive those shots can be. If most of us here had looked at that first shot without knowing what eventually happened, I doubt many would predict an INT by Jenkins as the result of the play.
For sure, as it stands now I'm much more leaning on the problems coming from the Bucs rather than freeman. From what I've seen / heard from the bucs beat writers, their fans, the discussions on reddit and what not, most of them call the bucs situation a disaster right now, as bad as childress. They all want Schiano gone, some more stuff I didn't know is during a victory formation kneel down when the game was over he ordered his defense to "attack" the formation. This sparked a bunch of back and forth from Tom Coughlin (they were playing the giants) and I guess it's considered unsportsman like to do that when the games basically over.

The leaking of the drug test / drug program information is another major offense that's childress like. Same thing with removing him as the team captain (the players claim they voted for him yet when the coach comes in and says "nope you lost!" seems kind of fishy!)

Then you have the Mike Williams quote talking about the Glennon switch and saying they've already had a lot of reps with him and this was the day Josh was benched. Most teams don't give their #2 reps with the one's mid-season, in fact I'd say no one does that.

Then you have this article which shows you a good glimpse into the offense there. It's basically a "#### it go deep" offense that's poorly designed. Guys running to the same spots, nothing really inventive or interesting there. While Vincent Jackson is pretty good he's always been really inconstant. He's the type of WR who gets you 30 fantasy points one week and 2 the next so I'm not surprised to hear he's had some big drops and mistakes.

I believe the bucs will do no better than 2-14 and have a real shot at 0-16. Glennon isn't going to fix that team because I don't think Freeman was the problem. Schiano will be fired at the end of the season if not earlier, that much is basically guaranteed.

My take on this now has changed as well. I think Ponder's lost the starting job 100%. Cassel will play until they think Josh is up to speed and then it's his job to lose at that point. Now when they say all that crap about ponder having a future on the team I actually believe they mean it. But it's not as the starter, he'll drop down to back up status / 3rd string and they'll let him "develop" more on the bench. In that sense I hate to say it but I don't think the ponder experiment is over unless Freeman is the guy. Should Freeman fail, Ponder will start 2014 with maybe another rookie draft pick on the depth chart.
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Re: What's your initial feeling on the Vikings signing Freem

Post by Mothman »

mondry wrote:For sure, as it stands now I'm much more leaning on the problems coming from the Bucs rather than freeman. From what I've seen / heard from the bucs beat writers, their fans, the discussions on reddit and what not, most of them call the bucs situation a disaster right now, as bad as childress. They all want Schiano gone, some more stuff I didn't know is during a victory formation kneel down when the game was over he ordered his defense to "attack" the formation. This sparked a bunch of back and forth from Tom Coughlin (they were playing the giants) and I guess it's considered unsportsman like to do that when the games basically over.
That happened last year and was all over the talk shows for a week. I'm surprised you didn't hear about it. Schiano seems like a real piece of work.
The leaking of the drug test / drug program information is another major offense that's childress like. Same thing with removing him as the team captain (the players claim they voted for him yet when the coach comes in and says "nope you lost!" seems kind of fishy!)
I hadn't really considered the parallels to Childress but there is some resemblance, isn't there?
My take on this now has changed as well. I think Ponder's lost the starting job 100%. Cassel will play until they think Josh is up to speed and then it's his job to lose at that point. Now when they say all that crap about ponder having a future on the team I actually believe they mean it. But it's not as the starter, he'll drop down to back up status / 3rd string and they'll let him "develop" more on the bench. In that sense I hate to say it but I don't think the ponder experiment is over unless Freeman is the guy. Should Freeman fail, Ponder will start 2014 with maybe another rookie draft pick on the depth chart.
They could conceivably keep Ponder, draft a rookie QB and sign a stopgap free agent to start too.

A push back on the depth chart and away from the pressure of being "the guy was who drafted to be franchise QB" might do Ponder some good. They have him under contract so maybe it's worth continuing to develop him. With more work, perhaps he can become a "Brad Johnson"-like QB although I think he's probably more of a "Rex Grossman".
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Re: What's your initial feeling on the Vikings signing Freem

Post by Eli »

Mothman wrote:They could conceivably keep Ponder, draft a rookie QB and sign a stopgap free agent to start too.
:wallbang:
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Re: What's your initial feeling on the Vikings signing Freem

Post by Demi »

Ponder apologists still at it. :roll:

Freeman played in a more open down field offense. And still managed similar stats to a guy throwing a third of his passes behind the line of scrimmage, so yeah, this is an upgrade. Beyond that? Who knows or cares. He's younger than Cassel and the best QB on the roster the minute he was signed. Going forward? Draft someone, even if it's in the first. Even if they have to sit. Run Freeman for a while. Or not. Either way better than the situation before we had him.
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Re: What's your initial feeling on the Vikings signing Freem

Post by The Breeze »

My guess is that we'll find out how good or bad Freeman is vs Ponder or anyone....once he actually starts playing.

I think the common sense about his contract is all about Freeman taking care of his best interests and still believing he has what it takes to be a big time player...and it's all on him to prove it.

If he just was not interested in doing what it takes and was only motivated by a paycheck, he would've taken the longer deal. As it is, his contract value has never been lower and he'll be a free agent next year....it makes absolute zero sense for him to take a 2 year deal now IMO. Why the hell would he do that if he thinks he was being screwed in TB? The guy wants to have a big impact and cash in next off season. He's forcing their hand and making sure he gets to play this season...I applaud that.

It seems pretty obvious that the FO is interested in him as a long term guy due to his age, NFL experience and physical gifts.

Who knows how he will respond as the QB or how this organization will handle his issues and mechanical flaws? They have an incredible record developing QBs :roll:


But here's something I do know:


the defense sucks~
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Re: What's your initial feeling on the Vikings signing Freem

Post by mondry »

Mothman wrote:
That happened last year and was all over the talk shows for a week. I'm surprised you didn't hear about it. Schiano seems like a real piece of work.
Yeah, just missed it, back then I didn't have my sweet cable package I have now haha.

I hadn't really considered the parallels to Childress but there is some resemblance, isn't there?
Seems like it, right up to even cutting the player rather than trying to make it work.

They could conceivably keep Ponder, draft a rookie QB and sign a stopgap free agent to start too.

A push back on the depth chart and away from the pressure of being "the guy was who drafted to be franchise QB" might do Ponder some good. They have him under contract so maybe it's worth continuing to develop him. With more work, perhaps he can become a "Brad Johnson"-like QB although I think he's probably more of a "Rex Grossman".
Yeah exactly, they'll let him sit long enough so that some of the ire from the fan base cools off a little and we'll think "hmm maybe he learned something off the bench" And of course there is the proverbial "maybe it'll light a fire under him" cliche. Just being handed the starting role and no competition hasn't worked for him.

I agree, Brad Johnson is probably the unlikely ceiling, I'm partial to Joey Harrington as my floor hahaha. At least Grossman could go deep with some consistency!
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Re: What's your initial feeling on the Vikings signing Freem

Post by Reignman »

Odlid wrote:We now have 3 suspect QB's on the roster, behind an offensive line that can't block.
Hmmm, that's crazy, the o-line that can't block looked pretty solid with Cassel back there. :confused:
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Re: What's your initial feeling on the Vikings signing Freem

Post by dead_poet »

Reignman wrote:Hmmm, that's crazy, the o-line that can't block looked pretty solid with Cassel back there. :confused:
Cassel got rid of the ball quicker, but let's not lose sight of the fact the Steelers' defense is awful and dead last in the league in sacks and pressures.
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Re: What's your initial feeling on the Vikings signing Freem

Post by mondry »

Reignman wrote:Hmmm, that's crazy, the o-line that can't block looked pretty solid with Cassel back there. :confused:
Don't you know it's because the steelers are so bad duh! :lol:
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Re: What's your initial feeling on the Vikings signing Freem

Post by Delaqure »

akvikingsfan wrote: What I'm also interested in are these stats:

Rushing Attempts Per Game:
Ponder - 3.55
Freeman - 3.33

Rushing Yards Per Game:
Ponder - 18.89
Freeman - 15.67

Rushing Yards Per Attempt:
Ponder - 5.32
Freeman - 4.68

Rushing Touchdowns Per Game:
Ponder - .14
Freeman - .07

Fumbles Lost Per Game:
Ponder - .31
Freeman - .22

I know its not the primary job of the quarterback to be running around, but when you add these into the passing stats we see the following:

Turn Overs Per Game:
Ponder - 1.34
Freeman - 1.34

Touchdowns Per Game:
Ponder - 1.04
Freeman - 1.37

Yards Per Game:
Ponder - 200.89
Freeman - 240.67

We can see that turnover wise, they're essentially the same (both at 1.34 turnovers per game). Freeman produces slightly more touchdowns (.33 more per game or 31% more touchdowns) per game. And Freeman produces about 40 yards (19% more yards) per game. But this doesn't take into account AD. To me, stat wise these two guys are essentially the same. But Freeman shows more confidence and poise on the field than Ponder does. I guess it'll only be a couple weeks until we can see for ourselves. Hopefully, Freeman is far superior to Ponder, but based off what these numbers tell us I wouldn't be so sure.
My point exactly. He may be better than Ponder but it doesn't seem like he is all that much better. But again there is the question as to why? Is it because he is just not that much better or is it because of the team and scheme he played with. I am not excited because he is not a proven commodity. Not yet. But I have a feeling we will see. We so desperately need a good QB and I am glad the front office is trying to find us one. I am just not convinced it's Freeman.

It would be great if it was though wouldn't it? Then we could spend our time really shoring up the line and defense with the draft.
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Re: What's your initial feeling on the Vikings signing Freem

Post by PurpleKoolaid »

dead_poet wrote: Cassel got rid of the ball quicker, but let's not lose sight of the fact the Steelers' defense is awful and dead last in the league in sacks and pressures.
Wow I wish Ponder had started then. He would have lit it up without any pressure at all but such a horrible D. :lol: :lol:
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Re: What's your initial feeling on the Vikings signing Freem

Post by jackal »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAscI-la2Ow

freeman highlights from 2010 his best from my understanding ..

I think from what I have seen might be our best QB now
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