What's your initial feeling on the Vikings signing Freeman?

[King James]

I have neutral feelings about this signing. I was really rooting for Cassel though but I guess this team is looking in a different direction. I hope freeman works out for us.

[PacificNorseWest]

I have neutral feelings about this signing. I was really rooting for Cassel though but I guess this team is looking in a different direction. I hope freeman works out for us.

It's the logical and smart thing to do though. Cassel is not a franchise guy. Could be flash in the pan for a run, but thankfully these front office guys aren't trying to sit on the prime of the best RB in NFL history.

[Funkytown]

and some TB franchise records:


Buccaneers franchise records
Highest quarterback rating in a single season - 95.9 (2010) (in 16 starts)
Most 4th quarter comeback wins in a single season- 5 (2010) (tied with Doug Williams)
Most game winning drives in a single season- 5 (2010) (tied with Brad Johnson)
Highest completion percentage in a single season - 62.8 (Min. 500 attempts) (2011)
Most touchdown passes thrown in consecutive games - 15 (2010-2011)
Fewest interceptions in a single season: 6 (2010) (in 16 starts)[12]
Longest pass completion: 95 (vs New Orleans Saints) (2012)
Most pass completions in a career - 1,144 (2009-2013)[13]
Most consecutive seasons, 3,000 yards passing - 3 (2010-2012) (tied with Brad Johnson)[14]
Most seasons with 3,000+ passing yards - 3 (tied with Brad Johnson)[15]
Most passing yards in a single season - 4,065 (2012)
Most passing touchdowns in a career - 80 (2009-2013)
Most passing touchdowns in a single season - 27 (2012)
Most passing touchdowns in a game - 5 (tied) (December 26, 2010 vs. Seattle Seahawks)

Not too shabby.

[indianation65]

The poll choices are head scratching and random, but I'll just say a new kid in a new town...anything is possible, including lots of upside. The "headcase" labels may be random as well. I'm/we all should hope for the best! It seems TB did as much, if not more, damage than Freeman did.

Addendum: I'm not trying to rag a brother Viking fan regarding the poll. Some choices are just too similar, but appreciation for your efforts. I'll just say again, anything is possible.

...wisdom

[King James]

It's the logical and smart thing to do though. Cassel is not a franchise guy. Could be flash in the pan for a run, but thankfully these front office guys aren't trying to sit on the prime of the best RB in NFL history.

Yeah it maybe best to keep Cassel as a back-up. We need a serviceable one. If Cassel went down then we'd be left with Ponder or MBT so I think the signing of Freeman was a smart one when you look at it this way.

[S197]

I picked other. Good signing because it didn't cost us any picks.

From Freeman's perspective, I think he chose a one year deal instead of two because if the Vikings continue on this trajectory, we'll have a new coaching staff next year who will likely clean house. He probably sees the Vikings as the best shot to elevate his stock in free agency (with guys like AD, Jennings, and Rudolph around him).

It's basically a hail mary on both sides to try and save their NFL careers. If Freeman gets the start and performs poorly he's likely done. If Frazier & Co. finish well below .500 they're done too. Sometimes being up against the wall brings out the best in you, it's sink or swim for a lot of people in this organization right now.

[DarthBrooks]

My only problem is that four bad/mediocre QB's don't make one good QB. If it's Cassel/Freeman/MBT the I'm OK with it. If it's Ponder/Freeman/ Cassel then I'd say uugh.

[VikingLord]

From http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/josh ... mpa-100413:

Make no mistake: Josh Freeman was not having a good 2013. He was flat-out bad in three losses to start the season. Coming into the final year of his rookie contract, one would have expected Freeman to show up to camp in tip-top shape and ready to lead. Instead, he looked sluggish on the field throughout training camp and brought question marks off of it once the regular season began.

Sleeping through the team photograph is not excusable — not for a rookie and certainly not for a five-year veteran. “You’re the quarterback,” one former Pro Bowl quarterback told me this week. “Aside from the head coach, you’re the most important person in the building. You should never miss a meeting, let alone the team photograph. That’s simply not acceptable.”

Freeman’s snafus off the field could have been forgiven had he been lights out on it. But he wasn’t. To be certain, this season much-maligned Cleveland Browns quarterback Brandon Weeden has more passing yards, a higher completion percentage and a higher QB rating than Freeman did in Tampa. Freeman struggled, so he was benched.

From http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA TOTAL QBR
21 Christian Ponder, MIN 5.4 5.8 -6.1 0.3 5.5 128 8.3 -2.3 43.1
22 Matt Schaub, HOU 13.4 -0.4 -5.8 0.6 7.8 207 13.3 -3.9 43.0
23 EJ Manuel, BUF 15.7 -0.9 -9.1 2.1 7.9 202 12.5 -4.2 42.2
24 Sam Bradford, STL 11.3 -3.2 -4.6 3.4 6.9 256 15.2 -6.0 41.4
25 Carson Palmer, ARI 12.5 0.1 -8.3 2.7 7.0 217 11.5 -6.5 39.2
26 Ben Roethlisberger, PIT 14.3 -2.5 -10.2 2.8 4.5 182 9.2 -5.9 38.4
27 Geno Smith, NYJ 9.3 2.7 -8.7 1.5 4.8 190 9.4 -6.4 38.0
28 Eli Manning, NYG 9.4 1.5 -9.2 1.8 3.5 243 9.1 -11.1 34.2
29 Cam Newton, CAR 9.6 4.7 -12.8 1.2 2.7 169 6.1 -8.0 33.9
30 Robert Griffin III, WSH 10.9 -5.3 -4.3 -1.0 0.3 209 4.3 -13.1 29.1
RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA TOTAL QBR
31 Josh Freeman, TB 2.9 1.5 -4.2 -0.9 -0.7 124 1.5 -8.8 26.8
32 Brandon Weeden, CLE 9.8 0.1 -11.4 -0.3 -1.8 145 0.7 -11.4 25.0
33 Chad Henne, JAC 1.9 0.1 -3.0 -0.1 -1.2 118 0.0 -9.8 23.8
34 Blaine Gabbert, JAC -9.3 -1.3 -4.9 0.1 -15.5 113 -23.5 -32.8 1.8

Yeah! Let's make Freeman the starter!

The situation at QB obviously remains one of desperation, and desperation drives inexplicable moves. Vikes are already in hock for #12 1st round money for Ponder, paid Cassel good money to be the backup/arguable starter, and now $3 mill for Freeman. I guess Spielman figures he throws enough guys in there something has to stick.

I suppose there is always the off chance Freeman might just have been in a bad spot down there with the Bucs. The guy obviously has talent, but most guys hitting their 5th year in the league are entering their primes, and those with talent who have other issues (e.g. Jay Cutler when he was with the Broncos) usually demand some serious compensation to the team getting rid of the problem child. The fact Freeman had no takers in trade speaks volumes about how he is perceived around the league.

Sources say Spielman offered 2 years and Freeman wanted one. All I can say is thank goodness Freeman prevailed, because at least now Spielman will have to deal with the situation at QB this offseason. No more waiting around and hoping this guy or that guy becomes the answer.

[mondry]

I look at it like this. Spielman liked Freeman a lot coming out of college, that means through out the interview process and all the combine stuff spielman came away impressed. Of course you can't draft every player you're impressed by and he ends up in tampa.

He's had 2 pretty strong seasons, passing for 4000 yards, 27 TD's... Ponder's thrown for 2935 and 18 TD's. In that sense he's a QB we wouldn't have to hide. I don't know why he's been struggling but I have to think Spielman thinks it has a lot to do with the bucs and whatever situations he's dealing with down there.

My initial feeling is IF he can return to 2010 / 2012 form or even get better (let's not forget he's still pretty young) it's well worth taking a chance on him. If the change of scenery does him good we really could have our franchise guy. He's got a rocket for an arm, and I think most importantly is HE'S BEEN GOOD BEFORE. Not Cassel filling in for Brady good or Ponder doing just enough to win while AD goes crazy but carry the entire team good. There are other cases of this happening like Cris Carter for example, one team lets them go because it's the best option for them, it "scares them straight" and they go on to have a HOF career...

The risk is essentially 3 million dollars and probably mcleod bethel thompsons roster spot. Finding a good Qb is so hard to do that I think it's well worth the flyer. It's not like we get to carry that 3 million over to next year, so it really doesn't even matter.

[CalVike]

My initial feeling is that it shows just how much pressure the Wilfs are putting on Spielman and Frazier to win this year. Watching Ponder throw a season down the toilet is not an option. Risking shaky Matt Cassel in a permanent starting role is not an option. They must bring in another young QB who has the chance to complement Adrian Peterson nicely. It's not at all common for an NFL team to bring in a starting QB mid-season, so it shows just how dire the team believes their QB situation, despite all their ridiculous protestations to the contrary.


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[VikingLord]

The reason I like Freeman as a franchise guy, is we will know relatively quick if he can be the guy. We draft a rookie and put it on him, it can take 2-3 seasons before you know. There's no butterflies, jitters, or rookie mistakes anymore with Freeman. if he's a fit for us, we would know at some point within a 16 game season if he can be our guy or not. Especially with a full season/offseason to learn our offense.

And in the NFL, sometimes a change of scenery can work wonders. There once was a QB for a rebuilding team, and like Freeman he only played four full seasons before being let go. His numbers, look an awful lot like Josh Freeman's:

One: 3284 yds 17 td's 16 int
Two: 2108 yds 11 td's 15 int (11 games)
Three: 3159 yds 27 td's 7 int
Four: 3576 yds 24 td's 15 int

The franchise that drafted this QB, like Freeman, gave up on him and let him go. This QB signed on with the New Orleans Saints and a few years later won the Super Bowl thanks to a bounty fueled defense.

I'm not claiming Josh Freeman is the next Drew Brees, but it's amazing what a change of scenery can do for a QB at this age. Maybe the Freeman-Viking thing works for everybody.

You're saying that the situations of Josh Freeman and Drew Brees were even remotely similar at the same point in their respective careers?

All of the below is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Brees

In the final season of his initial contract with the Chargers:

Brees' career with the Chargers was in jeopardy after San Diego acquired NC State's Philip Rivers after the 2004 NFL Draft. After the trade, it was almost certain Brees' days as the Chargers' starting QB were over. However, Rivers held out nearly all of training camp,and Brees remained the starter throughout the 2004 season, where he started 15 games and led the team to a 12-4 regular season record. Brees posted spectacular numbers, completing 65.5% of his passes for 3,159 yards, with 27 touchdowns to only 7 interceptions, giving him a 104.8 passer rating. The Chargers won the AFC West and Brees was selected to the 2004 NFL Pro Bowl. He was named 2004 NFL Comeback Player of the Year

Then, the Chargers make him their Franchise player despite having Rivers, and he doesn't disappoint:

Brees became a free agent after the season and was not expected to return to San Diego, which had already committed a large sum of money to Rivers. The team eventually designated Brees a franchise player, giving him a one-year contract that quadrupled his pay to $8 million for 2005. Under the terms of the franchise player contract, Brees was eligible to be traded or sign with another team, but the Chargers would receive two future first round draft choices in return. He was not traded and continued as starting quarterback for the remainder of the 2005 season.[18]

Brees continued his productive play in 2005, as he posted a career high in passing yards with 3,576. Brees also posted an 89.2 rating, 10th best in the NFL. However, in the last game of the 2005 season against the Denver Broncos, Brees tore his labrum while trying to pick up his own fumble after being hit by Broncos safety John Lynch. Denver tackle Gerard Warren hit Brees while he was on the ground, causing the injury. Brees underwent arthroscopic surgery, performed by Dr. James Andrews, to repair the torn labrum in his right (throwing) shoulder on January 5, 2006. Subsequent reports mentioned additional rotator cuff damage and he also was treated by Dr. Saby Szajowitz to recover and regain muscle movement.

Finally, the Chargers still offer him a healthy contract, albeit one based on incentives (and with Rivers still waiting in the wings):

After the season, the Chargers offered Brees a 5-year, $50 million contract that paid $2 million in base salary the first year and the rest heavily based on performance incentives. Brees evaluated the incentive-based offer as a sign of no confidence by the Chargers and promptly demanded the salary a top 5 "franchise" quarterback would receive.

New Orleans Saints (2006-present)[edit]

After the Chargers refused to increase their offer, Brees met with other teams. The New Orleans Saints and the Miami Dolphins were interested. New Orleans made an offer that included $10 million in guaranteed money the first year and a $12 million option the second year. Miami was unsure if Brees' shoulder was completely healed and doctors suggested the team not sign him because of the injury.[

So yeah, Brees tenure with the Chargers wasn't exactly solid, but that was mostly because the Chargers had invested heavily in Rivers and Brees had a significant injury that threatened his career. Plus, the team that signed Brees made him a clear starter with starter-level money. Never during that time were there allegations that Brees was a serious slacker who lacked motivation and failed to perform, especially at the point in his career where he suffered the injury.

This whole thing is just prima facie evidence the QB situation in Minnesota has reached a tipping point. This move just proves one thing, and that is Spielman has given up on Ponder and doesn't view Cassel as a viable long-term solution even if he plays well.

I am so glad Freeman insisted on a one year deal. Spielman is going to have to make a move in the upcoming draft at QB with a high pick again. Hopefully this time he doesn't reach, and if he's not in a position to take Bridgewater he'd better sure as heck not pass on Manziel.

[VikingLord]

My initial feeling is that it shows just how much pressure the Wilfs are putting on Spielman and Frazier to win this year. Watching Ponder throw a season down the toilet is not an option. Risking shaky Matt Cassel in a permanent starting role is not an option. They must bring in another young QB who has the chance to complement Adrian Peterson nicely. It's not at all common for an NFL team to bring in a starting QB mid-season, so it shows just how dire the team believes their QB situation, despite all their ridiculous protestations to the contrary.


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That's great, but I'm still waiting for them to bring in a starting QB, because as things stand Freeman is performing worse than either Ponder or Cassel.

[VikingLord]

I hear what you're saying, but I wouldn't put too much stock in Freeman's 2013 performance in Tampa. Of course, that's debatable, but word is that 10 teams were interested. That's a TON of interest. The personal/drug type stuff seemed like a smear campaign from TB so I also wouldn't put too much into that either. I'm a firm believer that a change of scenery can do wonders for a young QB who's been cast off by their team (as long as they've shown they do have game.) Just ask Jay Cutler and Drew Brees how that worked out for them ...

What benefit is it to Tampa to smear a guy they want to trade? Bucs invested a 1st rounder in a guy who is under contract till the end of the year. It doesn't benefit them in the least, nor make any sense at all, for them to intentionally lessen his potential trade value.

The *only* thing Josh Freeman has going for him right now, IMHO, is his age. Beyond that, he appears to me to be a complete flame-out. I don't know if 10 teams were really interested in this guy, but if so, it doesn't appear anyone was even remotely interested in giving him starter money, including the Vikings. For a young former 1st rounder in his 5th year in the league, that is Yuck and Yuckier.

[CalVike]

That's great, but I'm still waiting for them to bring in a starting QB, because as things stand Freeman is performing worse than either Ponder or Cassel.

Who would you like them to bring in? The choices are not exactly lengthy in October. I'm hopeful they make decisions based on who gives them the best chance to win. That may be Freeman, based on past performance. I understand your concern about the off-field stuff, but I doubt any of that recurs with Coach Leslie Frazier. I am more interested that he is 25 and has some good years behind him than your cherry picking of a few rough stats on his resume. AFAIC, I'm much more interested in debating Cassel v. Freeman now than any debate including Ponder. If he flames out, fire the GM, release the Coach, draft a QB, no harm, no foul. I'm most excited because to me it shows they recognize a weakness at QB and are desperately trying to get better.


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[VikingLord]

I look at it like this. Spielman liked Freeman a lot coming out of college, that means through out the interview process and all the combine stuff spielman came away impressed. Of course you can't draft every player you're impressed by and he ends up in tampa.

Spielman was impressed by Ponder too...

If I'm Spielman right now, I get out of the QB evaluation business. Heck, hire Trent Dilfer to do it for the Vikings. He at least seems to know what he's doing better than anyone on the Vikings evaluation staff right now.

He's had 2 pretty strong seasons, passing for 4000 yards, 27 TD's... Ponder's thrown for 2935 and 18 TD's. In that sense he's a QB we wouldn't have to hide. I don't know why he's been struggling but I have to think Spielman thinks it has a lot to do with the bucs and whatever situations he's dealing with down there.

Blame the Bucs... I don't know about that. Dude misses the team photograph? Looks lethargic in practice and preseason? How do you blame the Bucs for that?

My initial feeling is IF he can return to 2010 / 2012 form or even get better (let's not forget he's still pretty young) it's well worth taking a chance on him. If the change of scenery does him good we really could have our franchise guy. He's got a rocket for an arm, and I think most importantly is HE'S BEEN GOOD BEFORE. Not Cassel filling in for Brady good or Ponder doing just enough to win while AD goes crazy but carry the entire team good. There are other cases of this happening like Cris Carter for example, one team lets them go because it's the best option for them, it "scares them straight" and they go on to have a HOF career...

The risk is essentially 3 million dollars and probably mcleod bethel thompsons roster spot. Finding a good Qb is so hard to do that I think it's well worth the flyer. It's not like we get to carry that 3 million over to next year, so it really doesn't even matter.

But, Carter performed. Ryan cut him because he didn't like his attitude, but the guy performed before he was cut and after he was cut.

Freeman's trend is down and has been for some time now. It's just not the same as Cutler or Carter, both guys who performed, but had other issues that kept them from reaching their potential. Freeman just looks like a guy who has lost his love of the game to me. Sure, a guy who has potential and who can perform, but is highly unlikely to return to anywhere near his former level of performance.

I'll keep my fingers crossed, but I'd say Ponder has more of a chance of becoming a good starter in the NFL at this point than Freeman does.