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If he took a deep shot or two, it wasn't a "complete absence" was it?VikingLord wrote:What bothers me about how the preseason went is not only how Frazier trotted Ponder out there like he and his receivers are established (2 plays in the first preseason game, and sat him for the final one), but the complete absence of downfield attempts when Ponder was out there. Yes, I know he took a deep shot or two, but that isn't the point.
You failed to mention the uniform rankings. I ran into a Seattle fan in a bar last week who was really distraught over where the Seachickens unis got ranked.. He said it triggered issues he had with his mother making him wearing awful outfits to school and getting laughed at by his classmates. He had a serious disdain for fashion police combined with a drinking problem...not a good combo evidently.Eli wrote: Why do fans take predictions so freaking personally? (I doubt that it's just Vikings fans, although they sure do LOVE to think that their team gets no respect.) Season predictions, player ratings, power rankings. Who gives a ****? You'd think someone kicked your dog, spit on your hamburger and insulted your wife, for crying out loud. Yes, it's why they play the season instead of handing someone the Lombardi Trophy based on a survey of sports writers.
How about stating it this way:Mothman wrote: If he took a deep shot or two, it wasn't a "complete absence" was it?
You make really good points. Right now there is nothing but SPECULATION as to why Ponder didn't throw down the field more. It's very simplistic to say it's because he can't. I think its. Just as likely he didn't because of the play calling and/or the receiving corps. But that's just speculation also and is just as valid as any other. As many have pointed out there really are no excuses this year not to do more mid range passes. We have the corps to do it. Hopefully our O line will give him the time he needs. To me that is a far bigger question mark than the receivers this year. I certainly am not expecting a lot more passes as long as AD is running well. No reason to. But if Ds are crowding the line going upfield should happen. If not them perhaps its time for Musgrave and Ponder to go.Raptorman wrote:I don't know were my Vikings will finish. I would never claim they will win the division. To many variables. But here we are. To most pundits, the Vikings will be at the bottom. Why, because Ponder can't throw the ball. Peterson ran for over 2,000 yards last year and wants to do 2,500 this year. But everyone says he can't. Right. In 1967 Joe Namath throw for 4,000 yards. People said no one would ever do it again. Then Fouts did it in 1979. And they said he couldn't do it again. Until he did, in 1980, and 1981. Then Marino throw for 5,000 yards and they said no one would ever do it again. Until Brees did again. Then they said you can't do 5,000 yards back to back, until Brees did it. So Peterson can't run 2,500 yards. Why? Because no one else has ever done it. He won't have another 2,000 yard season this year because no one ever did. Ummmm. OK.
But here is the thing. Ponder in his first 26 games is 12-14. Ummm..... who else was 12-14 after 26 games? Now, I am not say Ponder will be as good as Rodgers, but then he doesn't have to be because the Vikings actually have a running game. If Ponder increase's his percentages just a little it will make a big difference in the Vikings game. But he can't, because he hasn't done it before. He can't throw downfield. Never mind the long passes to Wright last year. Never mind that two of the WR's he was throwing to last year are not even on an NFL team as I write this. But the WR's don't matter. Right? All we have is Ponder not throwing the ball downfield. Does anyone here know how many time the coach called for a deep pass last year? Bueller? Yeah, I thought not. So how can anyone say he didn't go downfield more when we have no idea how many times he was asked to do it? But that does not matter right? He didn't so that's all that counts.
But hell the Packers are going to win the division. Hell, why play the games? Last year at ESPN and SI and everywhere else the Packers were hands down favorites to win the division and Super Bowl. They are again this year with some competition from the Niners and Seahawks. Want to guess how many times these guys have picked the Super Bowl winner before the season started? I think I found once in the last 15 years. Not a good record, But hey, who knows. They could do it again. Kinda like passing for 5,000 yards two years in a row.
And his deep ball being inaccurate. While it may be true, we still do not know were the WR's were supposed to be. I'm not saying his deep balls are accurate, I'm saying are they all just his mistakes? That is what we don't know. We will by the end of this year that is for sure. 3/5 of the WR's he had last year are not on the team. Only one of those three is in the NFL at this point and is the 7th WR in Jacksonville. So we shall see how he does. I think he may surprise some people. But I could be wrong.Purplemania wrote: I would say Brees did 5000 yds back to back because there has been rules added to help the passing games. There has been none whatsoever for the running games. I'm not saying Peterson can't do it, but there's no advantage. Getting 2000 yds back to back is just that difficult.
As for Ponder throwing deep, it's true we don't know if coaches made the calls, but one thing we CAN analyze is when Ponder DOES throw it deep, completed or not. From my perspective, his deep balls are pretty terrible and inaccurate. You and a couple of other people have brought up the 2 deep balls to Wright last year...as if that justifies his ability to throw deep. It doesn't to me. In fact, one could categorize that as lucky if you crunch all his deep ball attempts. So in retrospect, it is just as fair, and I might even add even more fair, that the coaches didn't call any deep passes because Ponder cannot make the throws. One thing I will agree with you on his the lack of talent at WR, is why I give Ponder a pass. But this season with a much improved WR core, there are no excuses.
Just look at that 3rd preseason game. Opening play, AD in the game...play action, here we go!...Rainbow lob that lands in the open field five yards in front of Jennings.From my perspective, his deep balls are pretty terrible and inaccurate.
I was only joking with you but sure, that would be a more accurate way to phrase it.VikingLord wrote:How about stating it this way:
A complete absence of any fundamental change in approach? A complete lack of evidence that the Vikings were taking advantage of the preseason to try out their new receivers and see if they could create more big plays in the passing game?
I imagine it's a mix of both. I don't think the Vikings have any interest in transforming their offense into a high-flying aerial attack. I'm sure they'd like to get more big plays out of their passing game but I think Frazier and Musgrave want an efficient, ball control offense.Preseason would be the time to discover whether they can do that. Based on what we saw, they either don't intend to do that and will ride AD as far as he can take them again, or they're going to unveil the more complete passing game during the regular season.
Gotta disagree.The Breeze wrote:Speaking of the Bears, I expect them to be a real force in the division this year. If the Lions somehow manage to live up to expectations, reliant on how their defense performs, this division is up for grabs and the Vikings could be the odd team out if they don't play good fundamentally.
The Bears are the least flawed team going in IMO. They have questions along the OLine but they are pretty darn sound otherwise.
Couldn't agree more, in fact I'd say that's EXACTLY why they didn't extend / resign Cutler to a new contract. They will very likely be going in a new direction next year. If the Lions weren't so bad I'd peg the bears for last place.J. Kapp 11 wrote: Gotta disagree.
Marc Trestman is a west coast guru. Jay Cutler is a temperamental gunslinger. This has plenty of potential for disaster.
Full disclosure: I hate the Bears and wish for them to lose every game for the next five years, maybe even fold as a franchise.
Well, I hope you are right about the disaster, as I'm definitely not fond of the Bears either. I just think the book is out on Cutler and Trestman is no dummy. He knows what Cutler can do and what his strengths are. Everything I've read thus far says Cutler is pretty happy with the shift on offense......but like you said, anytime his ego is involved there is potential for mid-season melt down.J. Kapp 11 wrote: Gotta disagree.
Marc Trestman is a west coast guru. Jay Cutler is a temperamental gunslinger. This has plenty of potential for disaster.
Full disclosure: I hate the Bears and wish for them to lose every game for the next five years, maybe even fold as a franchise.
Sage wasn't even given a chance. All he did in the preseason games he got in was to move the offense down the field and score. We kept TJ over Sage??? I didn't get that at all. Think we might have goofed on that one.Demi wrote: It took a historic season by his running back to claw our way to the final wild card spot and a tie with the Bears....this team didn't make the playoffs because of Ponder. His HB gains more yards rushing than he does passing during that big four game stretch to get to the playoffs, and he averages what, 150 yards? Where's Gus Frerotte...he could have come out of retirement and done as much. Hell they could have signed Sage and the results wouldn't have been much different.
Did more to help than hurt.
Oh boy is this season going to be a rude awakening to some people...
I wouldn't say it's likely. In fact, I think it's far more likely that by the end of this season, Cutler will have solidified his position and the Bears will be comfortable signing him to an extension. One of the reasons Trestman got the job was because he's worked with Cutler. The latter had to deal with an ongoing game of musical offensive coordinators under Lovie Smith. Trestman was brought in to stabilize that situation, to help Cutler take his game to the next level and, ideally, ti give him a chance to play in the same offense for years. That kind of continuity has been lacking.mondry wrote:Couldn't agree more, in fact I'd say that's EXACTLY why they didn't extend / resign Cutler to a new contract. They will very likely be going in a new direction next year. If the Lions weren't so bad I'd peg the bears for last place.
This.J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Full disclosure: I hate the Bears and wish for them to lose every game for the next five years, maybe even fold as a franchise.
That's the ticket! Now your getting the hang of it!Demi wrote:I blame Greg Jennings though. And probably the offensive line. Oh, maybe AD for not selling the fake well enough.
