Vikings return to bottom feeder in the division

radar55 · Post by **radar55** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:20 am

I don't know how to link the article so I apologize for not including it but ESPN came out with divisional rankings for the 2013 season and each of the 4 who evaluated the NFC north have the Vikings winning from 5 - 7 games this year and finishing last in the division. Their basis for the downfall from last year was primarily the lack of trust in Ponder. Even with the addition of some quality at the W/R position their opinion was that he just does not have the pocket presence to play at the NFL level.

I hope they are wrong and that Ponder FINALLY shows what the braintrust sees in him but I don't feel like its going to happen any time soon and if the season turns out the way its predicted above, we will be back in the market next year with another high draft pick looking to draft another project Q/B.

Post by **Mothman** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:54 am

radar55 wrote:I don't know how to link the article so I apologize for not including it but ESPN came out with divisional rankings for the 2013 season and each of the 4 who evaluated the NFC north have the Vikings winning from 5 - 7 games this year and finishing last in the division. Their basis for the downfall from last year was primarily the lack of trust in Ponder. Even with the addition of some quality at the W/R position their opinion was that he just does not have the pocket presence to play at the NFL level.

That sounds like more lazy ESPN "analysis". Who were the 4 people making those predictions?

If Ponder was that bad, the Vikings wouldn't have made the playoffs in 2012. Sometimes I wonder if any of these guys actually look beyond the QB position or if they just look at each team and think "Oh, I like their QB, they're a playoff team. I don't like that QB, that team's staying home in the postseason"?

Maybe Ponder will hold the Vikes back this season but he did at least as much to help them reach the playoffs last year as he did to keep them out of the postseason, so I wouldn't count on it.

The Vikings postseason fate rests on a LOT more than Christian Ponder's performance anyway. Heck, even his performance will rely to some extent on whether the revamped WR corps delivers and whether the o-line does a good job. How the secondary holds up and how well the Vikings defend the run will play a big role in determining their fate too and, of course, Adrian peterson will have something to say about the matter.

The Vikes are a football team, not a QB and a collection of sidekicks, and their performance as a team will determine their fate this season.

I'm sick of everybody making it all about Ponder or even all about the QB position. Hopefully, the Vikes will make predictions that they'll descend to the bottom of the NFC North look foolish.

joe h · Post by **joe h** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:01 pm

3 first round draft picks, and we will be bottom feeders, sounds about right.

NextQuestion · Post by **NextQuestion** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:02 pm

Lions basically added a decent RB who can catch and all of a sudden they're contenders? lol

VikeMike · Post by **VikeMike** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:58 pm

SI has the Vikings going 9-7 and missing the playoffs. What does it mean? Absolutely nothing!
I'm a little pessimistic about this year, but I am willing to watch it play out. I expect them to regress a little from last year, but\, then again I expected 6 wins in 2012, so what the hell do I know?

Eli · Post by **Eli** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:28 pm

Mothman wrote:That sounds like more lazy ESPN "analysis". Who were the 4 people making those predictions?

Most sports prognosticators that I've read have the Vikings with less than 8 wins. No faith in Ponder, the loss of Harvin, and Peterson expected to get nowhere near 2000 yards, are all factors. Best I've seen predicted is 9 wins.

Post by **dead_poet** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:35 pm

Eli wrote: Most sports prognosticators that I've read have the Vikings with less than 8 wins. No faith in Ponder, the loss of Harvin, and Peterson expected to get nowhere near 2000 yards, are all factors. Best I've seen predicted is 9 wins.

What did those guys have for the Vikes last season I wonder...

The Breeze · Post by **The Breeze** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:46 pm

Where they finish won't phase me as long as I see continued improvemnet across the board.

As for Ponder, he showed improvemnet from year 1 to 2. The whole team did. If it becomes apparent that he is a liability in regards to the teams success, then draft another guy. It's not a huge deal IMO. I certainly don't buy into the whole notion of having a certain timeframe for winning a superbowl based on Adrian Peterson.
I'm more concerned with how Musgrave improves his ability to create opportunities for the talent he has on offense, whether or not the O-line can actually function at a high level and if the defense can consistently do a job of limiting big plays up and over the middle, while also being more adept a creating turnovers.

I want to believe that Fraizer's job is not hinging on how well Ponder plays.

Post by **Mothman** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:12 pm

The Breeze wrote:Where they finish won't phase me as long as I see continued improvemnet across the board.

As for Ponder, he showed improvemnet from year 1 to 2. The whole team did. If it becomes apparent that he is a liability in regards to the teams success, then draft another guy. It's not a huge deal IMO. I certainly don't buy into the whole notion of having a certain timeframe for winning a superbowl based on Adrian Peterson.
I'm more concerned with how Musgrave improves his ability to create opportunities for the talent he has on offense, whether or not the O-line can actually function at a high level and if the defense can consistently do a job of limiting big plays up and over the middle, while also being more adept a creating turnovers.

I want to believe that Fraizer's job is not hinging on how well Ponder plays.

It shouldn't be... if it is, the Vikes need to re-evaluate how they assess the performance of their head coach.

Raptorman · Post by **Raptorman** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:21 pm

dead_poet wrote: What did those guys have for the Vikes last season I wonder...

Don't think anyone predicted MN to win more than 5 games last year, and most predicted the Packer to either be in the Super Bowl or win the Super Bowl. I don't believe anyone had the Niners in the Super Bowl and only one or two had the Ravens winning anything in the playoffs. To me, a pre-season prediction of winning the Super Bowl it the kiss of death. I don't think I have every seen anyone pick the Super Bowl winner at the start of the season. I would rather be picked to be in the cellar. That way they can all try to make excuse's for the team if they end up in the playoffs.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/preview12/story/ ... tions-2012

Eli · Post by **Eli** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:29 pm

There's a big difference between returning to the bottom of the NFC North and being predicted to return to the bottom.

Just thought I'd point this out for those of you who are a little slow.

The Breeze · Post by **The Breeze** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:33 pm

Mothman wrote: It shouldn't be... if it is, the Vikes need to re-evaluate how they assess the performance of their head coach.

I certainly feel that Fraizer is the right kind of guy to coach in todays environment.
I don't suspect that he is anything close to an offensive innovator. He is a ball cntrol defense guy and I am totally on board with that style. I believe it keeps you in games more often than not and is more sustainable year in and out.
However, it puts much more emphasis on who the O-coordinator is and how imaginative they can be as opposed to running plays and fomations that have been recycled for years.
I think Musgrave has shown a capacity for both and, in his defense, his weapons and O-line have been limited by either ability or lack of pro maturity.

Anyway......it's a big year for him also. Not so much as in an explosion of offense but rather seeing a real cohesion and balance within it. Everyone on the same page and showing that they get what they're supposed to be doing. I guess I'm expecting the offense to be coordinated.

Post by **Mothman** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:48 pm

Eli wrote:There's a big difference between returning to the bottom of the NFC North and being predicted to return to the bottom.

Just thought I'd point this out for those of you who are a little slow.

Thanks, but I'm pretty sure we all have a good handle on that.

Post by **Mothman** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:51 pm

The Breeze wrote:I certainly feel that Fraizer is the right kind of guy to coach in todays environment.
I don't suspect that he is anything close to an offensive innovator. He is a ball cntrol defense guy and I am totally on board with that style. I believe it keeps you in games more often than not and is more sustainable year in and out.
However, it puts much more emphasis on who the O-coordinator is and how imaginative they can be as opposed to running plays and fomations that have been recycled for years.
I think Musgrave has shown a capacity for both and, in his defense, his weapons and O-line have been limited by either ability or lack of pro maturity.

Anyway......it's a big year for him also. Not so much as in an explosion of offense but rather seeing a real cohesion and balance within it. Everyone on the same page and showing that they get what they're supposed to be doing. I guess I'm expecting the offense to be coordinated.

LOL! It sounds like it.

You're right about Musgrave. It's a big year for him too.

yezzir · Post by **yezzir** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:53 pm

Mothman wrote: That sounds like more lazy ESPN "analysis". Who were the 4 people making those predictions?

If Ponder was that bad, the Vikings wouldn't have made the playoffs in 2012. Sometimes I wonder if any of these guys actually look beyond the QB position or if they just look at each team and think "Oh, I like their QB, they're a playoff team. I don't like that QB, that team's staying home in the postseason"?

Maybe Ponder will hold the Vikes back this season but he did at least as much to help them reach the playoffs last year as he did to keep them out of the postseason, so I wouldn't count on it.

The Vikings postseason fate rests on a LOT more than Christian Ponder's performance anyway. Heck, even his performance will rely to some extent on whether the revamped WR corps delivers and whether the o-line does a good job. How the secondary holds up and how well the Vikings defend the run will play a big role in determining their fate too and, of course, Adrian peterson will have something to say about the matter. The Vikes are a football team, not a QB and a collection of sidekicks, and their performance as a team will determine their fate this season.

I'm sick of everybody making it all about Ponder or even all about the QB position. Hopefully, the Vikes will make predictions that they'll descend to the bottom of the NFC North look foolish.

You're right, Jim. 90% of mainstream analysts just match up the QB's, and maybe 1 other player per team. It's a lazy hype machine, and most of them are scared of being wrong to the national audience. To have most "experts" have the Vikings finishing last is absurd, in my opinion.

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